Sullivan negotiations reach a stalemate

saint5221 · 07-27-2003, 09:32 AM

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Sullivan negotiationsreach stalemate

Saints' six-year deal, $10M bonus 'final offer'

Sunday July 27, 2003

By Jeff Duncan
Staff writer

The Saints opened practice Saturday with prized rookie defensive tackle Johnathan Sullivan 475 miles away in Griffin, Ga.

From all appearances, Sullivan, whom the Saints drafted with the sixth pick in this year's draft, won't be reporting to camp any time soon.

Despite intense discussions for the past week between Saints negotiator Russ Ball and Sullivan's agent, Len Rowe, the sides remain far apart in negotiations, and a prolonged holdout could be looming.

Rowe declined to comment Saturday.

"We've made our final offer, and it's more than fair," Saints general manager Mickey Loomis said. "He can take it or leave it. Every day he misses he becomes less valuable to us. He's going to lose his opportunity to be a starter."

The Saints have offered Sullivan $10 million in bonuses on a six-year deal, according to a source familiar with the negotiations. Sullivan is believed to be asking for around $11 million in bonus money.

Sullivan is one of three top-10 picks who has not signed a contract. Baltimore quarterback Byron Leftwich, the No. 7 pick, and Baltimore defensive end Terrell Suggs, the No. 10 pick, also are unsigned.

Deals in recent days for No. 5 pick Terence Newman and No. 8 pick Jordan Gross might have only served to muddy the negotiations. Newman signed a seven-year, $33 million contract that included $13 million in bonuses. The bonus money is identical to the amount received by Dewayne Robertson, the No. 4 pick, in the seven-year, $24.6 million contract he received from the New York Jets.

Saints officials said those deals are not exemplary because both teams front-loaded the contacts with inflated signing bonuses.

Gross, meanwhile, received $10.4 million in bonuses in the seven-year contract he signed with Carolina on Friday.

This is the third consecutive season the Saints have started training camp without their top pick. Receiver DontÃƒÂƒÃ‚Â© Stallworth missed two days of camp last season before agreeing to a six-year, $9.4 million contract. In 2001, running back Deuce McAllister held out for eight days before signing a six-year, $6.9 million deal.

"I really don't care if he (Sullivan) holds out," Loomis said. "We are going to do a deal that is right for the Saints and is fair. He has our offer. He is either going to accept it or not. That's his prerogative, but we write the checks."

Sullivan is projected to start at nose tackle. Six-year veteran Martin Chase worked with the first team Saturday. Veteran Grady Jackson also will compete at that position when he gets into condition.

Henry Ford, a nine-year veteran free agent who signed a two-year deal with the Saints on Saturday, is expected to work mainly at the other defensive tackle spot with Kenny Smith.

"Any time you draft somebody that high in the top 10, there's always negotiations," Coach Jim Haslett said.
"Sometimes they come in. Sometimes they hold out. I'm not concerned. He's not a big wideout of a defensive back. There's not a big learning curve at that position...If you're a holdout as a defensive tackle, it's probably eaiser to overcome there than other positions."

[Edited on 7/27/2003 by saint5221]

subguy · 07-27-2003, 02:45 PM

This is a concern. This guy has no in game experience as a pro and no practice as a pro. We were weighing on this guy heavily. What are our options?

tweeky · 07-27-2003, 04:14 PM

Have you driven a Ford lately?

rusta · 07-27-2003, 06:57 PM

this kinda thing makes me nuts, if he holds out for more than the first week of camp i hope they bench his a$$ for the season, and i hope they don\'t bow down to his demands

nothing makes madder than some punk outta college who has no experience refusing to play untill he gets more money, go to camp while the deal is worked out then if it isn\'t worked by ths start of the season oh well

i know it\'s just business but screw him, he hasn\'t even shown he\'s that good yet

BillyCarpenter1 · 07-28-2003, 08:14 AM

Sullivan has a rookie agent that seems to be trying to make a name for himself, Loomis said he has made his final offer. Loomis doesn\'t seem like the type of guy that bluffs a whole lot.

Agents are always in it for the agents best interest, not the players or the teams. Sullivan better read the writing on the wall.

coastalkid · 07-28-2003, 08:33 AM

I have never understood why some kid coming out of college thinks he deserves to be so highly compensated without even playing a down as a professional. His college days are in the past and the only thing that playing \"so great\" in college gets him is being drafted and getting to the pros. Now it starts all over again. He must prove his abilities over again against professional players. If he holds his own and proves himself then and only then does he DESERVE the big bucks! No kid coming out of college, regardless of how great he was, has the right to hold a team hostage for ransom. I hate to see this.

BillyCarpenter1 · 07-28-2003, 08:43 AM

I have never understood why some kid coming out of college thinks he deserves to be so highly compensated without even playing a down as a professional. His college days are in the past and the only thing that playing \"so great\" in college gets him is being drafted and getting to the pros. Now it starts all over again. He must prove his abilities over again against professional players. If he holds his own and proves himself then and only then does he DESERVE the big bucks! No kid coming out of college, regardless of how great he was, has the right to hold a team hostage for ransom. I hate to see this.

First of all, this is the way it works. Second, the only place a rookie has to prove himself is in college. Third, it\'s the players job to look after the player. If it were left entirely up to the owner the guy would be sleeping in a motel 6 eating peanut butter and crackers.

[Edited on 28/7/2003 by BillyCarpenter1]

BlackandBlue · 07-28-2003, 09:06 AM

They may not deserve the money straight out of college, but the teams are there ready to hand it over to them. People here in Dallas constantly talk about how overpaid Alex Rodriguez is, but can you blame him? The team gave him the money. I know I wouldn\'t turn $25million a year down.

BillyCarpenter1 · 07-28-2003, 09:15 AM

They may not deserve the money straight out of college, but the teams are there ready to hand it over to them. People here in Dallas constantly talk about how overpaid Alex Rodriguez is, but can you blame him? The team gave him the money. I know I wouldn\'t turn $25million a year down.

I would have taken the money too. But the owner of the Rangers was a complete moron. He should have gotten some pitching for all that money he spent on A-Rod.

B&B,

Do you get any coverage at all on the Saints in Dallas?

BlackandBlue · 07-28-2003, 09:27 AM

But the owner of the Rangers is a complete moron.

There, fixed :P

We get no TV coverage of the Saints here. But, a good friend of mine purchased the NFL Direct Ticket, so I won\'t miss any of the games. There is a restaurant/sports bar here that shows all LSU and Saints games, though. But after a full season of eating and drinking there every Saturday and Sunday, I could have purchased a Direct TV system with the NFL ticket several times over.

07-27-2003, 09:32 AM	#1
saint5221 500th Post Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 598	Sullivan negotiations reach a stalemate http://www.nola.com/saints/t-p/index...6343321790.xml ÃƒÂ‚Ã‚Â» More From The Times-Picayune Saints News Sullivan negotiationsreach stalemate Saints' six-year deal, $10M bonus 'final offer' Sunday July 27, 2003 By Jeff Duncan Staff writer The Saints opened practice Saturday with prized rookie defensive tackle Johnathan Sullivan 475 miles away in Griffin, Ga. From all appearances, Sullivan, whom the Saints drafted with the sixth pick in this year's draft, won't be reporting to camp any time soon. Despite intense discussions for the past week between Saints negotiator Russ Ball and Sullivan's agent, Len Rowe, the sides remain far apart in negotiations, and a prolonged holdout could be looming. Rowe declined to comment Saturday. "We've made our final offer, and it's more than fair," Saints general manager Mickey Loomis said. "He can take it or leave it. Every day he misses he becomes less valuable to us. He's going to lose his opportunity to be a starter." The Saints have offered Sullivan $10 million in bonuses on a six-year deal, according to a source familiar with the negotiations. Sullivan is believed to be asking for around $11 million in bonus money. Sullivan is one of three top-10 picks who has not signed a contract. Baltimore quarterback Byron Leftwich, the No. 7 pick, and Baltimore defensive end Terrell Suggs, the No. 10 pick, also are unsigned. Deals in recent days for No. 5 pick Terence Newman and No. 8 pick Jordan Gross might have only served to muddy the negotiations. Newman signed a seven-year, $33 million contract that included $13 million in bonuses. The bonus money is identical to the amount received by Dewayne Robertson, the No. 4 pick, in the seven-year, $24.6 million contract he received from the New York Jets. Saints officials said those deals are not exemplary because both teams front-loaded the contacts with inflated signing bonuses. Gross, meanwhile, received $10.4 million in bonuses in the seven-year contract he signed with Carolina on Friday. This is the third consecutive season the Saints have started training camp without their top pick. Receiver DontÃƒÂƒÃ‚Â© Stallworth missed two days of camp last season before agreeing to a six-year, $9.4 million contract. In 2001, running back Deuce McAllister held out for eight days before signing a six-year, $6.9 million deal. "I really don't care if he (Sullivan) holds out," Loomis said. "We are going to do a deal that is right for the Saints and is fair. He has our offer. He is either going to accept it or not. That's his prerogative, but we write the checks." Sullivan is projected to start at nose tackle. Six-year veteran Martin Chase worked with the first team Saturday. Veteran Grady Jackson also will compete at that position when he gets into condition. Henry Ford, a nine-year veteran free agent who signed a two-year deal with the Saints on Saturday, is expected to work mainly at the other defensive tackle spot with Kenny Smith. "Any time you draft somebody that high in the top 10, there's always negotiations," Coach Jim Haslett said. "Sometimes they come in. Sometimes they hold out. I'm not concerned. He's not a big wideout of a defensive back. There's not a big learning curve at that position...If you're a holdout as a defensive tackle, it's probably eaiser to overcome there than other positions." [Edited on 7/27/2003 by saint5221]
saint5221 500th Post Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 598

07-27-2003, 02:45 PM	#2
subguy 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: FL Posts: 2,096	Sullivan negotiations reach a stalemate This is a concern. This guy has no in game experience as a pro and no practice as a pro. We were weighing on this guy heavily. What are our options?

07-27-2003, 04:14 PM	#3
tweeky 500th Post Join Date: May 2003 Location: South Alabama Posts: 779	Sullivan negotiations reach a stalemate Have you driven a Ford lately?

07-27-2003, 06:57 PM	#4
rusta 100th Post Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 361	Sullivan negotiations reach a stalemate this kinda thing makes me nuts, if he holds out for more than the first week of camp i hope they bench his a$$ for the season, and i hope they don\'t bow down to his demands nothing makes madder than some punk outta college who has no experience refusing to play untill he gets more money, go to camp while the deal is worked out then if it isn\'t worked by ths start of the season oh well i know it\'s just business but screw him, he hasn\'t even shown he\'s that good yet
rusta 100th Post Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 361

07-28-2003, 08:14 AM	#5
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209	Sullivan negotiations reach a stalemate Sullivan has a rookie agent that seems to be trying to make a name for himself, Loomis said he has made his final offer. Loomis doesn\'t seem like the type of guy that bluffs a whole lot. Agents are always in it for the agents best interest, not the players or the teams. Sullivan better read the writing on the wall.
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209

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07-28-2003, 08:33 AM	#6
coastalkid 100th Post Join Date: May 2003 Location: Spain Posts: 287	Sullivan negotiations reach a stalemate I have never understood why some kid coming out of college thinks he deserves to be so highly compensated without even playing a down as a professional. His college days are in the past and the only thing that playing \"so great\" in college gets him is being drafted and getting to the pros. Now it starts all over again. He must prove his abilities over again against professional players. If he holds his own and proves himself then and only then does he DESERVE the big bucks! No kid coming out of college, regardless of how great he was, has the right to hold a team hostage for ransom. I hate to see this.

07-28-2003, 08:43 AM	#7
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209	Sullivan negotiations reach a stalemate I have never understood why some kid coming out of college thinks he deserves to be so highly compensated without even playing a down as a professional. His college days are in the past and the only thing that playing \"so great\" in college gets him is being drafted and getting to the pros. Now it starts all over again. He must prove his abilities over again against professional players. If he holds his own and proves himself then and only then does he DESERVE the big bucks! No kid coming out of college, regardless of how great he was, has the right to hold a team hostage for ransom. I hate to see this. First of all, this is the way it works. Second, the only place a rookie has to prove himself is in college. Third, it\'s the players job to look after the player. If it were left entirely up to the owner the guy would be sleeping in a motel 6 eating peanut butter and crackers. [Edited on 28/7/2003 by BillyCarpenter1]
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209

07-28-2003, 09:06 AM	#8
BlackandBlue Kinder, gentler Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: dirty south Posts: 3,889	Sullivan negotiations reach a stalemate They may not deserve the money straight out of college, but the teams are there ready to hand it over to them. People here in Dallas constantly talk about how overpaid Alex Rodriguez is, but can you blame him? The team gave him the money. I know I wouldn\'t turn $25million a year down.

07-28-2003, 09:15 AM	#9
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209	Sullivan negotiations reach a stalemate They may not deserve the money straight out of college, but the teams are there ready to hand it over to them. People here in Dallas constantly talk about how overpaid Alex Rodriguez is, but can you blame him? The team gave him the money. I know I wouldn\'t turn $25million a year down. I would have taken the money too. But the owner of the Rangers was a complete moron. He should have gotten some pitching for all that money he spent on A-Rod. B&B, Do you get any coverage at all on the Saints in Dallas?
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209

07-28-2003, 09:27 AM	#10
BlackandBlue Kinder, gentler Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: dirty south Posts: 3,889	Sullivan negotiations reach a stalemate But the owner of the Rangers is a complete moron. There, fixed :P We get no TV coverage of the Saints here. But, a good friend of mine purchased the NFL Direct Ticket, so I won\'t miss any of the games. There is a restaurant/sports bar here that shows all LSU and Saints games, though. But after a full season of eating and drinking there every Saturday and Sunday, I could have purchased a Direct TV system with the NFL ticket several times over.