Interesting data
 

I've been looking the post after post about how the pass protection of our O-line is so bad. I note some interesting things though:

Notable QBs who have been sacked more times than Brees ( 4 ):
Vince Young ( 5 ), Eli Manning ( 7 ), Tom Brady ( 7 ), Jay Cutler ( 8 ), Phillip Rivers ( 8 ), Carson Palmer ( 10 ), Tony Romo ( 11 ), Ben Roethlisberger ( 15 ), Donavan McNabb ( 23 ), John Kitna ( 28 ).

The only one on that list who has a worse rating than Brees is Vince Young. The QB rating figures don't exist in a vacuum, there are dropped passes, bad route running, etc. But as a pure measure of offensive line protection, it seems that more sacks equals more hurries and more hits. You can only blame the O-line for our lack of offensive performance for so long before you have to start looking in other places to find the source of our problems.

Edited because it turned a lot of my data into smiley faces.

Re: Interesting data
 

THANK you for finding this, as I've said it's been Brees that is off - not the o-line. He's standing back there for like 5-10 seconds and finding nothing. You don't think the o-line would get tired from pass-blocking all day long? It's all we ever do is pass. I'm hoping to see more balance in the future.

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You can post stats all you want, but I actually watched the games to know that the O-Line has been sucking. I posted in another thread that said they have improved, but it is still not great work.

I'm not saying Brees doesn't have any responsibility or the WR's or anyone else on the offense, but the first three games were lost primarily because of the O-Line. Sacks don't mean crap if your QB is throwing the ball away in time or throwing INT's because of the pressure. Brees has 10 or 11 INT's? Credit 6 or 7 of those to the O-Line.

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To Be Sacked or Not To Be Sacked
That is the question…
lol
just kidding


I disagree
First up sacks don't really mean much when it comes to a QB being on target
Yes it can mess up his confidence and break his concentration from time to time but 90% of it about timing
most of the time the QB is counting in his head and will release the ball once he get to that special number, other times he has to read the play to make things happen and lets not forget that some QB's are more slippery then others so you can't assume that just because a QB has or has not been sacked he is going to be off target

the reason the O line got so much blame is because of Brees being rushed not that they gave up sacks
and if a QB is Rushed and his timing get’s off it’s all down hill from there

and ScottyRo said it best with…

As have many of us

You can dress it up and spin it around as much as you like but in the end the films show clearly that they were not performing up to par

Re: Interesting data
 

Fo shizzle my nizzle.

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are the wideouts getting open. that might be another question too.

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The last two games Brees has had wayyyy too much time in the pocket to throw. It's like he's been sitting in a star trek force field. There are wide receivers in single coverage and things like that, I'm just wondering if it's a mixture of Brees not having the confidence in his receivers to catch the ball and a mixture of his timing is just off right now.

You can't sit here and tell me it's because of the o-line that Brees threw that interception against the Falcons. He had 5 seconds to find someone and he underthrew it to a falcon. The o-line is much improved, it's time for Brees to improve and make it count for something

Re: Interesting data
 

As odd as it may seem to some, I am also watching the games (haven't missed a Saints' game in I can't remember how many years). In the first two games, the O-line was an absolute mess of ill-performance. The third game they started to look a little better, and in the last three it appears to me that they've shaped up considerably. While the O-line is showing what every one seems to regard as steady improvement, we still see severely sputtering offense every week. That lends me to seek other reasons for the lack of production.

In essense, I guess what I think I am seeing is that through 12 halves of football, I've only seen the offense I expected show up for one (at Seattle first half). I can give them a pass for the second half of the Seattle game, due to the fact they were playing to hold the lead and even Payton talked about how he thought he called it too conservatively. If the basic assumption that the O-line is improving its performance is true, therefore something else must be responsible for the lack of production in the last three games.

If I had to take a swing at what I think it might be, I'd say that the play-calling has been pretty bad at times. Add to that that Brees has not been accurate in 5 of 6 games (I think he was right on at Seattle), and I believe I have a 'winner'.

I'm nervous about our QB, plain and simple. I partially tore my rotator cuff in highschool. I concede that I did not have NEAR the medical care that Brees had (also didn't have near the amount of damage either, but I digress), but when my arm was "recovered" my throws tended to float. The whole throwing motion just felt "wrong" and I could never get it back. I talked about that prior to last season on this board. All last year, I watched Brees show that he still had "it". I happily chalked it up to better medical procedures since my day and enjoyed the hell out of watching my Saints do things I'd never seen them capable of doing before.

This year, I'm watching Brees' mid-range and deep ball float. I'm watching him seem to lose his "touch" on some throws. Why would that show up in his second year after the injury? I don't have a clue and I sure hope I'm wrong, but I'm watching the games and he's not hitting receivers in stride any more. I'm not sure why that is - but I'm worried.

Re: Interesting data
 

Who tried to tell you that? I've been down on the o-line , but I haven't said anything like that. It was a bad throw, bad choice. That doesn't excuse the o-line.

You say they're much improved, but improving much from blocking none to blocking some doesn't really help my feelings about them.

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I'm just trying to get you to deduce from your own reasoning that the last 3 games Brees has had plenty of time to throw the ball - yet save for the first half of the Seattle game, he's looked like Danny Weurful.

I think it's a timing and confidence issue between he and his receivers. Because look at the preseason when they got the ball rolling. They were really a sight to behold.

nothin on you scottyro, nothin against you, I just think o-line problems are exaggerated cause we can't seem to convert on 3rd downs

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Even before my last post I did mention that they are improved, but still not great. I, too, believe Brees has confidence issues: 1) his WR's have dropped a lot of balls and 2) the O-line didn't protect him from start to finish in the first 3 games.

When he had plenty of time to throw, he looked like he was expecting to get blindsided any second. It's going to take time to get that confidence back.

But let's not re-write the history of this season so far. Just because the o-line played ok and Brees had some time to throw and didn't do a great job every time in the Falcons game does not mean that the o-line wasn't the problem the first three games.

Re: Interesting data
 

I think that all of the players on this team are outstanding players but I personally don't think that any of they have been playing up to par this season including Brees but I don’t think he is a bad QB by that either…

I'm not making excuses for the guy and he did flat out through that INT against Atlanta there was no excuse for it but I think that considering the bad start and that lack of effort out of the O line during the first 3 games and all the receivers missing and dropping balls I think the whole Offence has a confidence issue But I think that that confidence issue is going to show more in Brees because he is the one with the ball in his hands right from the start of the play

But I also think that now that things are swinging in there direction you will see a difference out of them each week unless they hit a pothole that knocks the whole thing out-of-wack again

lets pray that they swerve and miss that pothole

I say everyone needs to be a little less critical of them right now until we all can see how all of this is going to unfold
They have show improvements at almost ever position and on all sides of the ball. These improvements may be small and had to notice but it’s starting to show where it counts…
We are no longer winless!!!!!

I’ll take 2 & 4 over 0 & 6 any day of the week

Considering that fact that they have put there best foot forward and are starting to move in the right direction lets just give them a chance.

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I think its a little bit of all of them. Drew, the line and the wide outs. Hell even the backs. They all need to do a better job.

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[QUOTE=DeadmaN;143294] They have show improvements at almost ever position and on all sides of the ball. These improvements may be small and had to notice but it’s starting to show where it counts…
We are no longer winless!!!!!
[QUOTE]


bahhh can't edit the post
I meant to say...

They have shown improvements at almost ever position and on all sides of the ball. These improvements may be small and hard to notice but it’s starting to show where it counts…
We are no longer winless!!!!!

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I think all eleven guys at sometime or another are to blame. Like on a couple times yesterday Drew threw the ball and the receivers didnt turn their head in time. EVERYONE is at fault, team sport guys

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The OL is improving, that's all that counts right now, the rest will fall into place with Brees.

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The line has played well the last two games and brees has had a lot of time to throw the ball. The thing that hurts this offense the most is the absence of a power running game. Even if you line up reggie in the I and run him between the tackles, a CB or safety can bring him down without difficulty. Therefore the D can run more pass sets and focus on not getting beat deep. It really makes this offense one dimensional.

Re: Interesting data
 

Don't leave Coach Payton out of this list. There are times when the guy outsmarts himself. I was very very happy in the last two minutes of the Falcons game that he trusted his backs enough to get the first down and run out the clock. Normally Coach "Mad Scientist" would have called some wide receiver bubble screen or had Brees dropping back to pass. Our offense would consistently be more potent and more consistent if Coach simply committed to the run. Get Bush, PT23, and the Karneyvore out on the field, and keep up the zone stretch with the cutback, the end around misdirection, the sprint draw, and yes some plain old grunt power football between the tackles. Use the run game as the foundation to set up the passing attack.

If Bush and PT23 are getting 5-6 yards per carry running behind Karney, then there's no reason to throw the football until the defense adjusts to stop the run. Then you throw over the top. A perfect example of that was the Henderson TD in the first half. That TD was set up by the fact that Bush was running the ball effectively prior to the play. Now the play action sucked the safety in like a vacuum cleaner.

So add Coach to the list. He needs to impose a 25 pass limit on his offense to the get the run game going.

SFIAH

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I agree with the lack of confidence by the entire team. You can see that the confidence is starting to come back but it still has a way to go starting with coach Payton down to Brees and so on. payton needs to mix it up a bit, pass out of the I formation from time to time. Right now the minute we get into the I everyone knows we are going to run. That would be a perfect time for play action to the TE. I think I saw one pass out of the I to Karney on Sunday. I would like to see the TE used more to pull LB's away from the line and help open up running lanes.

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No one's re-writing history... we all know that. Everyone has said that.

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Its rhythm, wheres the rhythm, 3 and out 3 and out 3 and out. Thats not the rhythm we want. So then you press and bad thing happen.

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How to score 28 points a game, that way we don't have to rag on the defense so much:
First step is easy: Score TD's not FG's. The last two games we haven't even attempted one (thank god). Second: Establish a running game early to keep them honest. Third: Throw deep (more honesty). Fourth and finally: Receivers must get open and catch the ball on third down to keep the chains moving.

That said, the difference is Drew07 and Drew06 are obvious. 1. He doesn't have the power running game and the mystery of Bush anymore. 2. The defense gave up too many early scores and got behind. 3 His recievers are not getting open (sacks) they drop the ball (3 and out) and he still looks scared at times (interceptions). 4. We are not throwing enough deep balls anymore. Maybe because of the pressure from the OL, maybe his arm is not what it used to be.

They are smart enough to know all of this. His interceptions is one of the main reasons we started 0-4 . We cannot turn it over and win. (Actually we did over Atlanta, but they sucked). Drew needs to get more confidence that his recievers can get open and will catch the ball and the OL needs to open some holes for 25/23.

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In other words we need to show up and play football.

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Euphoria are you ok out ther in San Diego

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You can say what you want about the O-Line. But holding Seattle and Atlanta defenses to ZERO sacks is very impressive. Not only did they hold two very good QB rushing defenses to ZERO sacks, Brees was barely touched in either game, again VERY IMPRESSIVE.