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BIGEASY504 10-28-2007 05:36 PM

Is There a Lawsuit that prohibits the Saints from running the ball
 
We’re going to need to run the ball more, is there a reason why PT is not running or just in on offense. Short passes will make go 3 and out and give the 9’ers a chance. Another TD and run PT plus we need the running game if we expect to be playing after the regular season

LongTimeFan 10-28-2007 06:13 PM

Re: Is There a Lawsuit that prohibits the Saints from running the ball
 
Brees- 336 yards, 4 TD's and no INT's
Colston-85 yards, 3 TD's
Bush-113 total yards

31 points scored today.

No need to run much today when the passing game was freaking awesome.

3-4 and only one game back of the Bucs and Panthers

darstep 10-28-2007 08:30 PM

Re: Is There a Lawsuit that prohibits the Saints from running the ball
 
I agree BIGEASY, we have got to run the ball. This would have been a good opportunity to run it...because we did not have to. I did not see enough of Karney leading the way. I saw him on that bogus/high school double reverse that went for -6, a waste. Brees did well today, but he will only carry us as far as to a decent team, then we are right back to weeks 1-3, struggling to pass because we can't run the ball. This win is ours because we showed up to claim it. We shot a wounded duck, that still makes for a good meal. We will have to control the ball and keep our defense fresh when we play quality teams, and that means we must run the ball.

QBREES9 10-28-2007 09:10 PM

Re: Is There a Lawsuit that prohibits the Saints from running the ball
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by LongTimeFan (Post 143919)
Brees- 336 yards, 4 TD's and no INT's
Colston-85 yards, 3 TD's
Bush-113 total yards

31 points scored today.

No need to run much today when the passing game was freaking awesome.

3-4 and only one game back of the Bucs and Panthers

You Hit it right on he head. LongTimeFan.

mikesaintfan 10-29-2007 07:26 AM

Re: Is There a Lawsuit that prohibits the Saints from running the ball
 
Not much Karney yesterday and a few to many questionable calls like the deep pass form our own goal line. Get PT involved.

SaintFanInATLHELL 10-29-2007 08:06 AM

Re: Is There a Lawsuit that prohibits the Saints from running the ball
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by LongTimeFan (Post 143919)
Brees- 336 yards, 4 TD's and no INT's
Colston-85 yards, 3 TD's
Bush-113 total yards

31 points scored today.

No need to run much today when the passing game was freaking awesome.

3-4 and only one game back of the Bucs and Panthers

I guess I'm going to become the Euph of this subject. Just because everything is working right now doesn't mean that you don't address the problem.

Our pass happy offense works well against certain types of frankly not very good defenses. Try it against a playoff caliber defense and you get 4 game losing streaks to start the season.

Passing all the time makes you predictable and streaky. Great when the streak is in your favor. Terrible when it's not.

We can pass the ball at will. We can agree on that right?

So why not run the ball to set up the pass? Bush had a 6.4 YPC average yesterday. But he only carried the ball 10 times.

There are exposive plays in the run game. But you have to run the ball consistently to get to them.

I was watching the Patriots game yesterday and the analyist quoted Belechick saying that he gameplans his defense to take away what you do best. Every playoff caliber defense simply plans to take away the Saints passing game. And when that works you get streaks like the beginning of the season where Brees has 1 TD and 9 INTs.

I'm concerned because other than J'ville next week and maybe Tampa in early December we're not going to encounter any playoff caliber defenses for the rest of the season. So Coach will continue to be pass happy because it works. And we'll run most if not all of the rest of the table (Grant was quoted as us finishing 12-4).

And then the playoffs will come and we'll possibly be in New York, or Green Bay against really good fast defenses that will rush Brees and shut down the passing game in awful January conditions (or possibly even in the SuperDome). And we'll be back to asking what happened? Just like leaving Soldier field that damn cold January day (I know. I was there!)

We need the practice. The offense needs the consistency of a run game. We need to generate run game tape for others to consider.

We need to run the ball.

SFIAH

papz 10-29-2007 08:19 AM

Re: Is There a Lawsuit that prohibits the Saints from running the ball
 
We take whatever the defense is giving us. And in this game, we were able to exploit their secondary and do whatever we pleased. Just because we didn't run the ball a lot doesn't mean we couldn't have. Sure I would have love for us to pound the ball 30+ times a game, but we didn't have to. Those short swing passes to me are pretty much equivalent to a running play.

JOESAM2002 10-29-2007 08:35 AM

Re: Is There a Lawsuit that prohibits the Saints from running the ball
 
I too think we need a running game. But to me Stecker sure as hell ain't the answer. As most of you know, i'm not a big Stecker fan. If Reggie is Bushed,no pun intended, pound PT. This kid has more running talent in his little finger than Stecker has in his entire body. I'd love to see PT in the offense more. He's just better than Stecker.

SapperSaint 10-29-2007 09:23 AM

Re: Is There a Lawsuit that prohibits the Saints from running the ball
 
It's hard to complain when Drew is on a roll. I will agree with Joe on Stecker, put PT in and lets see what he can do.

andersen 10-29-2007 09:31 AM

Re: Is There a Lawsuit that prohibits the Saints from running the ball
 
Coach must not have enough confidence in PT. When Reggie was hurting, he calls Stecker's numbers (12 carries). I like Stecker for 3rd downs, he can catch and block, but that game (way ahead) was a perfect time for PT to get some live reps and see what this kid can do. I am very disappointed in not seeing him more in the fourth quarter.

Budsdrinker 10-29-2007 09:38 AM

Re: Is There a Lawsuit that prohibits the Saints from running the ball
 
I too would like to see more of a running game but I also have to agree you keep using what works. The main reason to run the ball is to control the clock and rest your defense. But if you can keep putting the points on the board go for it. What are New England's rushing stats per game? You don't have to run as much as long as you can catch the ball.

mighty12 10-29-2007 09:38 AM

Re: Is There a Lawsuit that prohibits the Saints from running the ball
 
My theory is......After this week the Jags are gonna be gunning for the pass why give them any more looks at different running plays. I see us pounding the ball with 4 backs on Sunday, and Del Rio going "Wait doesn't this team just pass?" Yeah well now we run.

SapperSaint 10-29-2007 10:00 AM

Re: Is There a Lawsuit that prohibits the Saints from running the ball
 
Re: Is There a Lawsuit that prohibits the Saints from running the ball

According to The State of California v Bush; it states that if any said player, formerly was an active participant in a State of California athletic organization, the afore mentioned player may not touch, throw, run or attempt to perform any of these acts, in a manner which will or attempt to cause the people of the State of California, prolonged undue stress.

Hope that helped answer some questions regarding any legalities.

SaintFanInATLHELL 10-29-2007 11:52 AM

Re: Is There a Lawsuit that prohibits the Saints from running the ball
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by papz (Post 144061)
We take whatever the defense is giving us. And in this game, we were able to exploit their secondary and do whatever we pleased. Just because we didn't run the ball a lot doesn't mean we couldn't have. Sure I would have love for us to pound the ball 30+ times a game, but we didn't have to. Those short swing passes to me are pretty much equivalent to a running play.

That's what one of the analysts were saying yesterday, that the flair pass is the equivalent of a toss sweep.

The only problem I have with the "take what they give you" strategy is that if you don't practice running the ball consistently then you'll have a hard time doing it effectively when the chips are down, when the weather is bad, when you need to run out the clock, and especially when your passing game isn't working. The other thing is that the running game was working effectively yesterday too.

I just want to see it more consistently. Coach Payton seems to grab bag too much and his staple is based around that passing game.

And of course more of PT23.

SFIAH

WhoDatQB 10-29-2007 12:39 PM

Re: Is There a Lawsuit that prohibits the Saints from running the ball
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Budsdrinker (Post 144086)
I too would like to see more of a running game but I also have to agree you keep using what works. The main reason to run the ball is to control the clock and rest your defense. But if you can keep putting the points on the board go for it. What are New England's rushing stats per game? You don't have to run as much as long as you can catch the ball.

==========

You cannot even think of comparing us to New England. Their receivers catch better(overall) than ours do, the O line is way better than ours. When these two factors are in play then yes you can do what you want this time of year. No team in the current weather conditions have the D to stop the NE passing game, when the weather turns cold they will run the ball, their RB's are all hurt and they are resting them as much as possible right now to get ready for the pounding they will take in the later part of the season. PT is the only chance we have to pound the ball as good as Reggie is he is not a pounder and our rookie needs reps.

The difference is that Brady has shown he can throw in the cold, and Belicheck will run the ball when he needs to, he says that he adapts his game plan to the team they are playing and the conditions. Payton does not change, we go into Chicago and try to throw the ball all over the place in the frigid cold and wind.

Euphoria 10-29-2007 12:50 PM

Re: Is There a Lawsuit that prohibits the Saints from running the ball
 
You guys have to realize that we have to play aggressive on Offense. Running the ball isn't aggressive. The reason we need to be aggressive is we were 2-4 going into the game. When you are down and your backs to the wall you come out fighting.

The second part of the problem is I think Payton has learned something from those 4 losses at the begining of the season. You score more points on your opponet early and you take them out of there game plan. You will in turn force them to throw the ball more and make more mistakes.

WhoDatQB 10-29-2007 01:13 PM

Re: Is There a Lawsuit that prohibits the Saints from running the ball
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Euphoria (Post 144125)
You guys have to realize that we have to play aggressive on Offense. Running the ball isn't aggressive. The reason we need to be aggressive is we were 2-4 going into the game. When you are down and your backs to the wall you come out fighting.

The second part of the problem is I think Payton has learned something from those 4 losses at the begining of the season. You score more points on your opponet early and you take them out of there game plan. You will in turn force them to throw the ball more and make more mistakes.

=====

But towards the end of the game when we are up and their D is getting nasty and if our O line breaks down and we continually have short drives without taking much time off the clock and we will get screwed. Especially when it turns cold and Payton wants to try and get up on the teams quickly and Brees has a ball or two go off line in the wind or just the plain fact of throwing in the cold. We need a running game, while I like high flying point scoring offenses as much or more than the next guy, you need to be able to run or have a dominant O line that will keep people off of Brees all day long no matter what and receivers that do not get the dropsies.

While I agree with getting up on teams early to help out our D, oh god believe me do I agree with it, when it turns 30 degrees and windy on us what are we gonna do? All of a sudden say, hey PT, Stecker, and Bush let's go out and run the ball? PT needs more carries and more time in the offense to get the blitz pickup down.

Unless you figure us to go undefeated the rest of the season and secure homefield throughout the playoffs?

SapperSaint 10-29-2007 01:16 PM

Re: Is There a Lawsuit that prohibits the Saints from running the ball
 
PT should have been given the chance on the final two drives to at least get some "seat" time.

LongTimeFan 10-29-2007 06:38 PM

Re: Is There a Lawsuit that prohibits the Saints from running the ball
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by papz (Post 144061)
We take whatever the defense is giving us. And in this game, we were able to exploit their secondary and do whatever we pleased. Just because we didn't run the ball a lot doesn't mean we couldn't have. Sure I would have love for us to pound the ball 30+ times a game, but we didn't have to. Those short swing passes to me are pretty much equivalent to a running play.

"Those short swing passes to me are pretty much equivalent to a running play."

Amen to that papz !!

Take what they give us, who knows, against Jacksonville we may have to run more and IMO we can do if if need be.
Pick your poison I say.
Our defense is just playing so well, they'll win a few games themselves, the entire teams are making plays and that's one of the reasons the Saints have won 3 in a row.

Euphoria 10-29-2007 07:16 PM

Re: Is There a Lawsuit that prohibits the Saints from running the ball
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by WhoDatQB (Post 144129)
=====

But towards the end of the game when we are up and their D is getting nasty and if our O line breaks down and we continually have short drives without taking much time off the clock and we will get screwed. Especially when it turns cold and Payton wants to try and get up on the teams quickly and Brees has a ball or two go off line in the wind or just the plain fact of throwing in the cold. We need a running game, while I like high flying point scoring offenses as much or more than the next guy, you need to be able to run or have a dominant O line that will keep people off of Brees all day long no matter what and receivers that do not get the dropsies.

While I agree with getting up on teams early to help out our D, oh god believe me do I agree with it, when it turns 30 degrees and windy on us what are we gonna do? All of a sudden say, hey PT, Stecker, and Bush let's go out and run the ball? PT needs more carries and more time in the offense to get the blitz pickup down.

Unless you figure us to go undefeated the rest of the season and secure homefield throughout the playoffs?

WhoDat you got good points but our running game is injured. Deuce can make the line look good without him we aren't that great up to middle. To be a good running team you have to have 2 things
1. O-LINE
2. Good/Great Defense
You are correct to be a good running team you have to committ to it and do it and do it.

You have to give payton credit getting by with what he has and what has been available to him.
-We just don't have the personel to pound the ball as everyone has been asking for, nor the RB to do it right now.
-Our D is suspect and to make up for that you have to score points.
-When your record is less than 500 you have be agressive.

WhoDatQB 10-29-2007 08:31 PM

Re: Is There a Lawsuit that prohibits the Saints from running the ball
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Euphoria (Post 144191)
WhoDat you got good points but our running game is injured. Deuce can make the line look good without him we aren't that great up to middle. To be a good running team you have to have 2 things
1. O-LINE
2. Good/Great Defense
You are correct to be a good running team you have to committ to it and do it and do it.

You have to give payton credit getting by with what he has and what has been available to him.
-We just don't have the personel to pound the ball as everyone has been asking for, nor the RB to do it right now.
-Our D is suspect and to make up for that you have to score points.
-When your record is less than 500 you have be agressive.


======
Deuce is injured but our running game has been grounded.

I will agree our line is not a great run blocking Line.

I can't give Payton too much credit when he is doing the same damn things he was last year, I just hope he doesn't continue to do it to our detriment.

We do not know if we have the RB to pound the ball yet. For goodness sakes look at M JOnes-Drew, if he can pound it so can PT.

I agree with our record what it is you have to be aggressive, but if we plan on doing anything other making a good showing in the regular season then we need to work on the run game. What game better to work on the run game than towards the end of this past game? The Saints have not had a better opportunity to work on the run game than they had last week.

We have a good left side of the line, maybe not directly up the middle, but run between the LG and LT. Or at least try it

SaintFanInATLHELL 10-30-2007 07:18 AM

Re: Is There a Lawsuit that prohibits the Saints from running the ball
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by WhoDatQB (Post 144129)
=====

But towards the end of the game when we are up and their D is getting nasty and if our O line breaks down and we continually have short drives without taking much time off the clock and we will get screwed. Especially when it turns cold and Payton wants to try and get up on the teams quickly and Brees has a ball or two go off line in the wind or just the plain fact of throwing in the cold. We need a running game, while I like high flying point scoring offenses as much or more than the next guy, you need to be able to run or have a dominant O line that will keep people off of Brees all day long no matter what and receivers that do not get the dropsies.

While I agree with getting up on teams early to help out our D, oh god believe me do I agree with it, when it turns 30 degrees and windy on us what are we gonna do? All of a sudden say, hey PT, Stecker, and Bush let's go out and run the ball? PT needs more carries and more time in the offense to get the blitz pickup down.

Unless you figure us to go undefeated the rest of the season and secure homefield throughout the playoffs?

Yeah! What he said!

SFIAH

darstep 10-30-2007 07:55 AM

Re: Is There a Lawsuit that prohibits the Saints from running the ball
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL (Post 144058)
I guess I'm going to become the Euph of this subject.
So why not run the ball to set up the pass? Bush had a 6.4 YPC average yesterday. But he only carried the ball 10 times.
There are exposive plays in the run game. But you have to run the ball consistently to get to them.
SFIAH

Well you won't have to be Euph by yourself on this one. This was the problem when Duece was healthy - 9-10 carries a game when averaging 4.3. If we commit to running the ball, protecting Drew Brees in the pocket is easy. We actually showed signs of getting to the run and seems that we've backed off. If we can get a push early in the game, we will get some breakouts, and then we are pass blocking defenders that are on the heels and not on their toes. Hasn't meant much with our recent opponents, but our pass-pass-pass day of reconning is coming. Against good defenses, that have a decent pass rush, we have GOT to run the ball. The key to running Bush, Stecker, and Thomas, given their size and weight, is to have them play off of the lead of Karney. He will make their job easy. We know that there will be at least ONE linebacker that won't be in on the tackle. Karney also works well in pass protection, picking up the blitz, and allowing the other back to sneak out as a safety valve with linebacker coverage. So what! we have one less tightend - Karney gives us options - and that's what Payton/Brees likes - good options. Running the ball will continue to allow Brees to plant his feet in the pocket and have the kind of success and results that we have seen the past three weeks. Writing off the run will get us right back to the darkside.

bobad 10-30-2007 08:31 AM

Re: Is There a Lawsuit that prohibits the Saints from running the ball
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by darstep (Post 144251)
Writing off the run will get us right back to the darkside.


Everything you said is true, but I don't think SP wrote off the run.

When we got up by 2 TD's, the 49ers started looking for us to run and play keep-away. They crowded the line, making it real hard to run on them. Besides that, Reggie got nicked.

I'm sure SP would have liked to run when up by 2-3 TD's. If he had a QB besides Brees, he probably would have run more.

SaintFanInATLHELL 10-30-2007 10:36 AM

Re: Is There a Lawsuit that prohibits the Saints from running the ball
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by darstep (Post 144251)
Well you won't have to be Euph by yourself on this one. This was the problem when Duece was healthy - 9-10 carries a game when averaging 4.3. If we commit to running the ball, protecting Drew Brees in the pocket is easy. We actually showed signs of getting to the run and seems that we've backed off. If we can get a push early in the game, we will get some breakouts, and then we are pass blocking defenders that are on the heels and not on their toes. Hasn't meant much with our recent opponents, but our pass-pass-pass day of reconning is coming. Against good defenses, that have a decent pass rush, we have GOT to run the ball. The key to running Bush, Stecker, and Thomas, given their size and weight, is to have them play off of the lead of Karney. He will make their job easy. We know that there will be at least ONE linebacker that won't be in on the tackle. Karney also works well in pass protection, picking up the blitz, and allowing the other back to sneak out as a safety valve with linebacker coverage. So what! we have one less tightend - Karney gives us options - and that's what Payton/Brees likes - good options. Running the ball will continue to allow Brees to plant his feet in the pocket and have the kind of success and results that we have seen the past three weeks. Writing off the run will get us right back to the darkside.

Yeah! What he said too! :D

SFIAH

Budsdrinker 10-30-2007 01:21 PM

Re: Is There a Lawsuit that prohibits the Saints from running the ball
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by WhoDatQB (Post 144129)
=====

But towards the end of the game when we are up and their D is getting nasty and if our O line breaks down and we continually have short drives without taking much time off the clock and we will get screwed. Especially when it turns cold and Payton wants to try and get up on the teams quickly and Brees has a ball or two go off line in the wind or just the plain fact of throwing in the cold. We need a running game, while I like high flying point scoring offenses as much or more than the next guy, you need to be able to run or have a dominant O line that will keep people off of Brees all day long no matter what and receivers that do not get the dropsies.

While I agree with getting up on teams early to help out our D, oh god believe me do I agree with it, when it turns 30 degrees and windy on us what are we gonna do? All of a sudden say, hey PT, Stecker, and Bush let's go out and run the ball? PT needs more carries and more time in the offense to get the blitz pickup down.

Unless you figure us to go undefeated the rest of the season and secure homefield throughout the playoffs?

Well, looking at the schedule there is only 1 game remaining outdoors that could possibly be in the 30's and that would be the last game aginst Chicago.
After that the only possibilities would be playoffs at Giants or Packers. So just put up the points and go from there.

Ghouse522 10-30-2007 05:37 PM

Re: Is There a Lawsuit that prohibits the Saints from running the ball
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by LongTimeFan (Post 143919)
Brees- 336 yards, 4 TD's and no INT's
Colston-85 yards, 3 TD's
Bush-113 total yards

31 points scored today.

No need to run much today when the passing game was freaking awesome.

3-4 and only one game back of the Bucs and Panthers

Totally agree

darstep 10-30-2007 06:42 PM

Re: Is There a Lawsuit that prohibits the Saints from running the ball
 
All that I am saying is that we are lop-sided, and its going to bite us. We can't wait until we get in a situation and HOPE that we can run the ball. Just like every other weapon in our arsenal, we've got to keep "running the ball" well oiled and battle tested. Passing the ball takes good timing. That comes from repetition - QB to each receiver in their standard routes. That spurs confidence in both, each knowing that the receiver and the ball will be in the same place - on time. Running the ball is not much different. Timing! - runners picking and hitting the holes (on time) and blocker holding the blocks to allow it. Game conditions can't be totally paralleled in practice sessions. We had a golden opp to actually improve/mold/perfect our running game this past week. PierreT could have gotten some work that will pay dividends when we do have to call on him in the future, and we will. We can't let it rust, then cry when it doesn't fire.


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