Defensive Scheme

neugey · 11-05-2007, 02:05 PM

Perhaps the coaches decided that not giving up big runs to Taylor and Jones-Drew was the primary defensive objective yesterday. Thus they elected to make Gray beat them.

Euphoria · 11-05-2007, 02:59 PM

We don't blitz because we can't blitz. The best way to break up a run play... penetration on a blitz. You can blitz on a screen but you have to play disiplined defense which we don't really have. I like some of our personell on D don't get me wrong but I think this is a GREAT POINT the Defense we deploy is CRAP. The whole theroy of bend don't break... we break. Giving up to many big plays. YEAH YEAH be happy we won but you have to be concerend when we play agains the tougher teams that will break us.

I think part of the problem we can only change so much and need to give Payton some time still to build this team... we are still building I am well aware of that and I think a lot of people have to high of expectations for a building team.

We have to get out of that Defense but we just don't have the players yet. We have no true rushers.

WhoDat205 · 11-05-2007, 03:38 PM

Originally Posted by Euphoria

We don't blitz because we can't blitz. The best way to break up a run play... penetration on a blitz. You can blitz on a screen but you have to play disiplined defense which we don't really have. I like some of our personell on D don't get me wrong but I think this is a GREAT POINT the Defense we deploy is CRAP. The whole theroy of bend don't break... we break. Giving up to many big plays. YEAH YEAH be happy we won but you have to be concerend when we play agains the tougher teams that will break us.

I think part of the problem we can only change so much and need to give Payton some time still to build this team... we are still building I am well aware of that and I think a lot of people have to high of expectations for a building team.

We have to get out of that Defense but we just don't have the players yet. We have no true rushers.

I've heard the D refered to as break-don't-bend. The thought being roll the dice and try to force a quick possession getting the offense back on the field. I'd say they achieve that, too. You rarely see long, sustained drives against the Saints. It's either 3-and-out or 2-and-score.

We are still building, you're right, but there is a lot of potential on the field now. Couple that with a weak division in (arguably) the weaker conference and there's no reason they can win some games now.

To say there are no true rushers is not true, IMO. Grant is a run stopper, no doubt. I never expected him to have 10+ sacks a season, however, Smith is a true pass rusher (and hasn't signed a big contract yet, IIRC). He's had a slow year, but he's got the game. Call me an apologizer, but I think he's just trying to force it.

Euphoria · 11-05-2007, 04:26 PM

Originally Posted by WhoDat205

I've heard the D refered to as break-don't-bend. The thought being roll the dice and try to force a quick possession getting the offense back on the field. I'd say they achieve that, too. You rarely see long, sustained drives against the Saints. It's either 3-and-out or 2-and-score.

We are still building, you're right, but there is a lot of potential on the field now. Couple that with a weak division in (arguably) the weaker conference and there's no reason they can win some games now.

To say there are no true rushers is not true, IMO. Grant is a run stopper, no doubt. I never expected him to have 10+ sacks a season, however, Smith is a true pass rusher (and hasn't signed a big contract yet, IIRC). He's had a slow year, but he's got the game. Call me an apologizer, but I think he's just trying to force it.

I can't argue many of your points there... but to blitz you have to have good complimentary of personell to compliment your so called true pass rusher. If you only have one guy to worry about then thats easy. But you got to have several and no one is stepping up and until Smith does something the verdict will remain out...

There have been long drives but they give up so many big plays there hasn't been a need for long drives.

WhoDat205 · 11-05-2007, 04:42 PM

Originally Posted by Euphoria

I can't argue many of your points there... but to blitz you have to have good complimentary of personell to compliment your so called true pass rusher. If you only have one guy to worry about then thats easy. But you got to have several and no one is stepping up and until Smith does something the verdict will remain out...

There have been long drives but they give up so many big plays there hasn't been a need for long drives.

No argument here. Generally speaking, the majority of blitzes come from the LBs and ours suck outside of Fuji. I don't think a poster on this site would argue that. The safties are the only guys who have done anything on blitzes.

An interesting stat is we are 7th in firsts downs defensively - meaning our defense has not faced many first downs.

1 Baltimore 94
2 Pittsburgh 103
3 Tennessee 123
4 Oakland 137
5 Kansas City 139
6 Arizona 140
7 New Orleans 141

WillMacKenzie · 11-05-2007, 04:42 PM

I'll put it this way...if we're gonna give up a big play anyway, why not send Hell's Minions into the QB's face while we're at it. We may even end up forcing a turnover if we're not careful.

Euphoria · 11-05-2007, 06:02 PM

Originally Posted by WhoDat205

No argument here. Generally speaking, the majority of blitzes come from the LBs and ours suck outside of Fuji. I don't think a poster on this site would argue that. The safties are the only guys who have done anything on blitzes.

An interesting stat is we are 7th in firsts downs defensively - meaning our defense has not faced many first downs.

1 Baltimore 94
2 Pittsburgh 103
3 Tennessee 123
4 Oakland 137
5 Kansas City 139
6 Arizona 140
7 New Orleans 141

The thing about stats can be misleading... You can make them read and say whatever you want them to say. The sobering stats maybe in the W and L column but here is a stat for you...

-we are ranked 23rd as far as points scored against us.
PF - 173 PA - 186 thats minus 13 net points this far into the season.

andersen · 11-05-2007, 07:04 PM

What's wrong with this defense?
#1 Not enough pressure. If we don't send Fujita or Harper or a DB, we always allow the Qb to scan the field and find the open man. If not for Will, we would not have a rush.
#2 Middle LB does not make tackles. Enough said there.
#3 David thinks he is still in Indy
What's right with this defense?
# 1 Playing the run well, with Hollis stuffing, Grant edging and Fujita closing.
# 2 McKensie seems to be the best player (or is this a negative?)
# 3 Offense gets off to a great start and puts the other team in a hole.
Those of you that Tivo'd the first three games, go back and get a piece of that.
Don't eat the cheese!

iceshack149 · 11-06-2007, 03:42 PM

Please delete post.

iceshack149 · 11-06-2007, 03:44 PM

Originally Posted by Euphoria

We don't blitz because we can't blitz. The best way to break up a run play... penetration on a blitz. You can blitz on a screen but you have to play disiplined defense which we don't really have. I like some of our personell on D don't get me wrong but I think this is a GREAT POINT the Defense we deploy is CRAP. The whole theroy of bend don't break... we break. Giving up to many big plays. YEAH YEAH be happy we won but you have to be concerend when we play agains the tougher teams that will break us.

I think part of the problem we can only change so much and need to give Payton some time still to build this team... we are still building I am well aware of that and I think a lot of people have to high of expectations for a building team.

We have to get out of that Defense but we just don't have the players yet. We have no true rushers.

Good post. I disagree with the last sentence though.I think that Grant is a very good pass rusher. So is Brian Young. Young leads New Orleans with three sacks and is somehow always overlooked.
And people keep asking what's wrong with Will Smith. The guy keeps injuring qb's and that's pretty effective, gruesome or not.
Gray, starting his second game for injured David Garrard (ankle), opened well, but his performance dipped after he sprained his left ankle on a hit by Will Smith early in the second quarter. javascript:lpg("/Multimedia/Photo Galleries/2007/9/Saints vs Titans - September 24.aspx","Saints vs Titans - September 24");

Leftwich was injured when Will Smith and Brian Young sandwiched the quarterback as he released the football. New Orleans Saints - Saints Host Falcons

Will Smith came around the corner to blindside Carr for Smith’s first sack of the season. Carr needed assistance in leaving the field.New Orleans Saints - Saints and Panthers Game Story

And Apparently Renaldo Wynn is good in spot duty with two sacks yesterday.

Another guy that looked good as a rusher in preseason was Troy Evans. Especially in the Bills game.

11-05-2007, 02:05 PM	#11
neugey Hu Dat! Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 6,695 Blog Entries: 13	Re: Defensive Scheme Perhaps the coaches decided that not giving up big runs to Taylor and Jones-Drew was the primary defensive objective yesterday. Thus they elected to make Gray beat them.

11-05-2007, 02:59 PM	#12
Euphoria 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 7,601 Blog Entries: 5	Re: Defensive Scheme We don't blitz because we can't blitz. The best way to break up a run play... penetration on a blitz. You can blitz on a screen but you have to play disiplined defense which we don't really have. I like some of our personell on D don't get me wrong but I think this is a GREAT POINT the Defense we deploy is CRAP. The whole theroy of bend don't break... we break. Giving up to many big plays. YEAH YEAH be happy we won but you have to be concerend when we play agains the tougher teams that will break us. I think part of the problem we can only change so much and need to give Payton some time still to build this team... we are still building I am well aware of that and I think a lot of people have to high of expectations for a building team. We have to get out of that Defense but we just don't have the players yet. We have no true rushers.
	E U P H O R I A

11-05-2007, 03:38 PM	#13
WhoDat205 Prediction Pain Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Birmingham, AL Posts: 1,082 Blog Entries: 2	Re: Defensive Scheme Originally Posted by Euphoria We don't blitz because we can't blitz. The best way to break up a run play... penetration on a blitz. You can blitz on a screen but you have to play disiplined defense which we don't really have. I like some of our personell on D don't get me wrong but I think this is a GREAT POINT the Defense we deploy is CRAP. The whole theroy of bend don't break... we break. Giving up to many big plays. YEAH YEAH be happy we won but you have to be concerend when we play agains the tougher teams that will break us. I think part of the problem we can only change so much and need to give Payton some time still to build this team... we are still building I am well aware of that and I think a lot of people have to high of expectations for a building team. We have to get out of that Defense but we just don't have the players yet. We have no true rushers. I've heard the D refered to as break-don't-bend. The thought being roll the dice and try to force a quick possession getting the offense back on the field. I'd say they achieve that, too. You rarely see long, sustained drives against the Saints. It's either 3-and-out or 2-and-score. We are still building, you're right, but there is a lot of potential on the field now. Couple that with a weak division in (arguably) the weaker conference and there's no reason they can win some games now. To say there are no true rushers is not true, IMO. Grant is a run stopper, no doubt. I never expected him to have 10+ sacks a season, however, Smith is a true pass rusher (and hasn't signed a big contract yet, IIRC). He's had a slow year, but he's got the game. Call me an apologizer, but I think he's just trying to force it.
	"defence's personal to allwats double team or watch is over, that one reason why the saints or not any good." - Vador101

11-05-2007, 04:26 PM	#14
Euphoria 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 7,601 Blog Entries: 5	Re: Defensive Scheme Originally Posted by WhoDat205 I've heard the D refered to as break-don't-bend. The thought being roll the dice and try to force a quick possession getting the offense back on the field. I'd say they achieve that, too. You rarely see long, sustained drives against the Saints. It's either 3-and-out or 2-and-score. We are still building, you're right, but there is a lot of potential on the field now. Couple that with a weak division in (arguably) the weaker conference and there's no reason they can win some games now. To say there are no true rushers is not true, IMO. Grant is a run stopper, no doubt. I never expected him to have 10+ sacks a season, however, Smith is a true pass rusher (and hasn't signed a big contract yet, IIRC). He's had a slow year, but he's got the game. Call me an apologizer, but I think he's just trying to force it. I can't argue many of your points there... but to blitz you have to have good complimentary of personell to compliment your so called true pass rusher. If you only have one guy to worry about then thats easy. But you got to have several and no one is stepping up and until Smith does something the verdict will remain out... There have been long drives but they give up so many big plays there hasn't been a need for long drives.

11-05-2007, 04:42 PM	#15
WhoDat205 Prediction Pain Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Birmingham, AL Posts: 1,082 Blog Entries: 2	Re: Defensive Scheme Originally Posted by Euphoria I can't argue many of your points there... but to blitz you have to have good complimentary of personell to compliment your so called true pass rusher. If you only have one guy to worry about then thats easy. But you got to have several and no one is stepping up and until Smith does something the verdict will remain out... There have been long drives but they give up so many big plays there hasn't been a need for long drives. No argument here. Generally speaking, the majority of blitzes come from the LBs and ours suck outside of Fuji. I don't think a poster on this site would argue that. The safties are the only guys who have done anything on blitzes. An interesting stat is we are 7th in firsts downs defensively - meaning our defense has not faced many first downs. 1 Baltimore 94 2 Pittsburgh 103 3 Tennessee 123 4 Oakland 137 5 Kansas City 139 6 Arizona 140 7 New Orleans 141

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11-05-2007, 04:42 PM	#16
WillMacKenzie 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 1,627	Re: Defensive Scheme I'll put it this way...if we're gonna give up a big play anyway, why not send Hell's Minions into the QB's face while we're at it. We may even end up forcing a turnover if we're not careful.

11-05-2007, 06:02 PM	#17
Euphoria 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 7,601 Blog Entries: 5	Re: Defensive Scheme Originally Posted by WhoDat205 No argument here. Generally speaking, the majority of blitzes come from the LBs and ours suck outside of Fuji. I don't think a poster on this site would argue that. The safties are the only guys who have done anything on blitzes. An interesting stat is we are 7th in firsts downs defensively - meaning our defense has not faced many first downs. 1 Baltimore 94 2 Pittsburgh 103 3 Tennessee 123 4 Oakland 137 5 Kansas City 139 6 Arizona 140 7 New Orleans 141 The thing about stats can be misleading... You can make them read and say whatever you want them to say. The sobering stats maybe in the W and L column but here is a stat for you... -we are ranked 23rd as far as points scored against us. PF - 173 PA - 186 thats minus 13 net points this far into the season.

11-05-2007, 07:04 PM	#18
andersen With an "E" Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Madisonville, LA Posts: 429	Re: Defensive Scheme What's wrong with this defense? #1 Not enough pressure. If we don't send Fujita or Harper or a DB, we always allow the Qb to scan the field and find the open man. If not for Will, we would not have a rush. #2 Middle LB does not make tackles. Enough said there. #3 David thinks he is still in Indy What's right with this defense? # 1 Playing the run well, with Hollis stuffing, Grant edging and Fujita closing. # 2 McKensie seems to be the best player (or is this a negative?) # 3 Offense gets off to a great start and puts the other team in a hole. Those of you that Tivo'd the first three games, go back and get a piece of that. Don't eat the cheese!
	Seated in the top row of AREA 51?

11-06-2007, 03:42 PM	#19
iceshack149 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Fairbanks, AK Posts: 4,254 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Defensive Scheme Please delete post.
	Last edited by iceshack149; 11-06-2007 at 03:47 PM.. Reason: Double post

11-06-2007, 03:44 PM	#20
iceshack149 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Fairbanks, AK Posts: 4,254 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Defensive Scheme Originally Posted by Euphoria We don't blitz because we can't blitz. The best way to break up a run play... penetration on a blitz. You can blitz on a screen but you have to play disiplined defense which we don't really have. I like some of our personell on D don't get me wrong but I think this is a GREAT POINT the Defense we deploy is CRAP. The whole theroy of bend don't break... we break. Giving up to many big plays. YEAH YEAH be happy we won but you have to be concerend when we play agains the tougher teams that will break us. I think part of the problem we can only change so much and need to give Payton some time still to build this team... we are still building I am well aware of that and I think a lot of people have to high of expectations for a building team. We have to get out of that Defense but we just don't have the players yet. We have no true rushers. Good post. I disagree with the last sentence though.I think that Grant is a very good pass rusher. So is Brian Young. Young leads New Orleans with three sacks and is somehow always overlooked. And people keep asking what's wrong with Will Smith. The guy keeps injuring qb's and that's pretty effective, gruesome or not. Gray, starting his second game for injured David Garrard (ankle), opened well, but his performance dipped after he sprained his left ankle on a hit by Will Smith early in the second quarter. javascript:lpg("/Multimedia/Photo Galleries/2007/9/Saints vs Titans - September 24.aspx","Saints vs Titans - September 24"); Leftwich was injured when Will Smith and Brian Young sandwiched the quarterback as he released the football. New Orleans Saints - Saints Host Falcons Will Smith came around the corner to blindside Carr for Smith’s first sack of the season. Carr needed assistance in leaving the field.New Orleans Saints - Saints and Panthers Game Story And Apparently Renaldo Wynn is good in spot duty with two sacks yesterday. Another guy that looked good as a rusher in preseason was Troy Evans. Especially in the Bills game.
	"...it's good to have friends, no matter where they are."--JOESAM2002