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-   -   Jason David proves everyone wrong! (https://blackandgold.com/saints/18567-jason-david-proves-everyone-wrong.html)

papz 11-13-2007 01:28 PM
Re: Jason David proves everyone wrong!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Euphoria (Post 146270)
You can post any stat you want to read anything you want them to. But based on play he's the best thing we got behind MM. Its a no brainer that you pick on your opponets worst defender. Hell we would do it against other teams. Benching him for FT isn't the answer for a couple of years we had the same problem with FT and JC. It isn't going to make anything any better.
Someone seriously has to put the pipe down and read. You claim to watch all this "game film" but if you don't think David is bad, you need to get your eyes checked. Throw out all the stats, and you still have a horrible starting corner.

And one more thing, who suggested benching him for Fred Thomas? But since you mentioned it, yes I would rather see Thomas on the field than David. David makes Thomas look like Rashean Mathis.

Sometimes you really got to wonder...

papz 11-13-2007 01:29 PM
Re: Jason David proves everyone wrong!
 
Quote:
Ya know I have to agree with you. I went back and evaluated his play overall since the begining of the season. He isn't bad. I think he's had times trying to adjust at being all alone on an island trying to cover a WR instead of the cover two type stuff. He bit a few times on the short routes trying to make a play, letting a WR go by him uncovered. When he does have other assignments he plays fast, he plays with intensity and he makes plays. I'd sill have David out there over Thomas.

Another problem is we play to much man to man for any CB in the league. With no pass rush any WR will eventually get open.

I'd put the blame on the D cordinator and no pass rush for a lot of the problems. They need to better prepare David but otherwise I don't see replacing him will do any good.
Quote:
David broke his arm and didn't play in 5, 6, and 7. That's the only reason he didn't get torched.
Now you know he has absolutely no clue. Game tape my arse... ROFL!

WhoDatQB 11-13-2007 03:43 PM
Re: Jason David proves everyone wrong!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papz (Post 146278)
Someone seriously has to put the pipe down and read. You claim to watch all this "game film" but if you don't think David is bad, you need to get your eyes checked. Throw out all the stats, and you still have a horrible starting corner.

And one more thing, who suggested benching him for Fred Thomas? But since you mentioned it, yes I would rather see Thomas on the field than David. David makes Thomas look like Rashean Mathis.

Sometimes you really got to wonder...
========

I have no crack pipe. I personally think David is bad, Thomas is bad. If you go and look at last years play you will see Fred Thomas biting on all the same type of plays and being in bad position just like David. Fred managed to do these things while covering and not looking at the QB. David spends too much time looking at the QB like he is still playing cover 2, if the coaches could rid him of that he would be much better than Thomas, as long as he continues to look at the QB he is just as bad as Thomas.

Personally I would rather see David get the reps and get better to perhaps be a nickel or dime corner in the future, Thomas is old and past his prime. If I had my choice I would rather see Craft or Young playing over either of those two CB's. Craft may be passed his prime and slow, but he doesn't bite on a head fake the way David and Thomas do.

Our safeties are still young and somewhat unprepared for the mistakes WE SHOULD KNOW our corners are going to make. Our run D has been pretty decent our safeties either need to be blitzing or deep in coverage for deep help when one of our corners gets faked out of his shoes.

Euphoria 11-13-2007 11:09 PM
Re: Jason David proves everyone wrong!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhoDatQB (Post 146286)
========

I have no crack pipe. I personally think David is bad, Thomas is bad. If you go and look at last years play you will see Fred Thomas biting on all the same type of plays and being in bad position just like David. Fred managed to do these things while covering and not looking at the QB. David spends too much time looking at the QB like he is still playing cover 2, if the coaches could rid him of that he would be much better than Thomas, as long as he continues to look at the QB he is just as bad as Thomas.

Personally I would rather see David get the reps and get better to perhaps be a nickel or dime corner in the future, Thomas is old and past his prime. If I had my choice I would rather see Craft or Young playing over either of those two CB's. Craft may be passed his prime and slow, but he doesn't bite on a head fake the way David and Thomas do.

Our safeties are still young and somewhat unprepared for the mistakes WE SHOULD KNOW our corners are going to make. Our run D has been pretty decent our safeties either need to be blitzing or deep in coverage for deep help when one of our corners gets faked out of his shoes.
Agree with ya. People only are noticing the plays he bites and well rightfully so because usually its given up big plays or points. He is making other plays and contributing in other areas where Fred Thomas hasn't. We all know JC can't be left on an island. I think out better choice to finish the year is David and let he learn to get out of the zone/cover two thinking.

He is the best CB we have and should be starting period. Don't like it Oh well - have the CB you want on the team in camp this offseason. Untill then David gets the start.

Euphoria 11-13-2007 11:23 PM
Re: Jason David proves everyone wrong!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papz (Post 146278)
Someone seriously has to put the pipe down and read. You claim to watch all this "game film" but if you don't think David is bad, you need to get your eyes checked. Throw out all the stats, and you still have a horrible starting corner.

And one more thing, who suggested benching him for Fred Thomas? But since you mentioned it, yes I would rather see Thomas on the field than David. David makes Thomas look like Rashean Mathis.

Sometimes you really got to wonder...
I do have access to some game films. I can't get them all but I can get some by Tuesday or Wednesday the earliest. I don't have any major connections other than just that.

Take your own advice and "READ" the thread before just wanting to argue with me and you will see that I was addressing an earlier person who posted going with Fred Thomas over David.

Aside from just giving up big plays which the whole D is guilty of David has been involved and done well in other areas. He's made some crucial mistakes don't get me wrong I am not here saying he's a number 1 CB at all. But what we have he is the best in front of Thomas and Craft. Don't read anything else into it. David has excelled in other areas and plays with some intensity. He has made some good plays. WE should only hope he comes around and gets that Cover two style behind him.

His major flaw is biting on a short route and letting WR he is suppose to be covering in hopes of trying to make a play up front thinking he's cover 2 ways that he has help over the top which clearly he doesn't.

We do have the wrong personel to run the type of D Gibbs wants to run or if you perfer the wrong style of D with the personel we have. Take your pick. But Thomas and or Craft isn't the answer at this point. Perhaps mixing up a man to man on one side with MM and a zone type D on the opposite side which will benefit David.

JOESAM2002 11-14-2007 04:49 AM
Re: Jason David proves everyone wrong!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Euphoria (Post 146324)
I do have access to some game films. I can't get them all but I can get some by Tuesday or Wednesday the earliest. I don't have any major connections other than just that.

Take your own advice and "READ" the thread before just wanting to argue with me and you will see that I was addressing an earlier person who posted going with Fred Thomas over David.

Aside from just giving up big plays which the whole D is guilty of David has been involved and done well in other areas. He's made some crucial mistakes don't get me wrong I am not here saying he's a number 1 CB at all. But what we have he is the best in front of Thomas and Craft. Don't read anything else into it. David has excelled in other areas and plays with some intensity. He has made some good plays. WE should only hope he comes around and gets that Cover two style behind him.

His major flaw is biting on a short route and letting WR he is suppose to be covering in hopes of trying to make a play up front thinking he's cover 2 ways that he has help over the top which clearly he doesn't.

We do have the wrong personel to run the type of D Gibbs wants to run or if you perfer the wrong style of D with the personel we have. Take your pick. But Thomas and or Craft isn't the answer at this point. Perhaps mixing up a man to man on one side with MM and a zone type D on the opposite side which will benefit David.
You know, I do have to agree with you most of what you're saying here, but don't you think that training camp and half the year is enough to grasp the man to man? He just seems to not be able to grasp the concept. I might be wrong but he does get beat for the TD a lot. Thoughts?

LordOfEntropy 11-14-2007 06:30 AM
Re: Jason David proves everyone wrong!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JOESAM2002 (Post 146328)
Thoughts?
My thought is put Usama Young in there. I know he's a rookie, and I know he's raw, and I know he's been hurt. But I say put him out there anyway - because even if he fails, it'll be no worse than what's already happening with Jason David.

If I remember right, Bulger was 27 out of 33 in that last game. That's an 82% completion rate (!?), with no turnovers, and far far too many of them long strikes on 3rd down and long. That my friends is simply not acceptable. I think we all pretty much agree that Jason David isn't getting the job done - so why not play Young?

JOESAM2002 11-14-2007 07:41 AM
Re: Jason David proves everyone wrong!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordOfEntropy (Post 146332)
My thought is put Usama Young in there. I know he's a rookie, and I know he's raw, and I know he's been hurt. But I say put him out there anyway - because even if he fails, it'll be no worse than what's already happening with Jason David.

If I remember right, Bulger was 27 out of 33 in that last game. That's an 82% completion rate (!?), with no turnovers, and far far too many of them long strikes on 3rd down and long. That my friends is simply not acceptable. I think we all pretty much agree that Jason David isn't getting the job done - so why not play Young?
The thing is, we know what we're getting with David........burned! If we have a 50/50 chance of NOT getting burned with Young, why not?You're right he's young and inexperienced, but he can't be any worse than David. So, if we play him, what have we got to lose? With David we've lost already. With Young we might have a chance to win the battle. To me 50/50 is better than 0.

bobcat4u2 11-14-2007 07:48 AM
Re: Jason David proves everyone wrong!
 
the defense gets burned by any decent qb with average or better receivers.offense,hot or cold,not consistant,defense consistant

papz 11-14-2007 08:27 AM
Re: Jason David proves everyone wrong!
 
Quote:
Agree with ya. People only are noticing the plays he bites and well rightfully so because usually its given up big plays or points. He is making other plays and contributing in other areas where Fred Thomas hasn't. We all know JC can't be left on an island. I think out better choice to finish the year is David and let he learn to get out of the zone/cover two thinking.
You agree with WhoDatQB who is saying David is bad... yet you say he isn't bad. Are you bipolar?

Quote:
He is the best CB we have and should be starting period. Don't like it Oh well - have the CB you want on the team in camp this offseason. Untill then David gets the start.
Uhhh... Craft has outplayed David by far this season. Actually EVERYONE has.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Euphoria (Post 146324)
Take your own advice and "READ" the thread before just wanting to argue with me and you will see that I was addressing an earlier person who posted going with Fred Thomas over David.
Now do yourself a favor and go back to page 2. Did you not quote my post and directly respond back to me? Seriously... you quote me and respond to someone else? :rolleyes:

Quote:
Aside from just giving up big plays which the whole D is guilty of David has been involved and done well in other areas. He's made some crucial mistakes don't get me wrong I am not here saying he's a number 1 CB at all. But what we have he is the best in front of Thomas and Craft. Don't read anything else into it. David has excelled in other areas and plays with some intensity. He has made some good plays. WE should only hope he comes around and gets that Cover two style behind him.
Please show me where he has excelled. Go back and go through game tape and please show me.

Quote:
His major flaw is biting on a short route and letting WR he is suppose to be covering in hopes of trying to make a play up front thinking he's cover 2 ways that he has help over the top which clearly he doesn't.
Exactly... which is why he should NOT be starting. He hasn't been able to make that transition yet. Leave him to nickel/dime duty until he proves he's capable of starting.

Quote:
We do have the wrong personel to run the type of D Gibbs wants to run or if you perfer the wrong style of D with the personel we have.
You are correct.

Quote:
Take your pick. But Thomas and or Craft isn't the answer at this point.
And neither is David... but at least we were respectable with Craft/Thomas/Young in there.

Quote:
Perhaps mixing up a man to man on one side with MM and a zone type D on the opposite side which will benefit David
Are you suggesting we change our scheme to fit ONE player? One player who isn't close to being a franchise type player? A player you do not build your team around? I think not.

Now though I'm very down on David right now, I do believe he can turn things around slowly. But right now, we need to win games and he's not helping. Ease the man in... let him get adjusted. Throwing him in the fire isn't going to help with this confidence as he keeps getting burned over and over. He's 24 with good speed and a winning pedigree under his belt... he'll turn things around... eventually.


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