It's not all on Jason David
 

Did any of you guys notice that the Texans TE's were wide open all night? They killed us, our LB's can't cover a baby in a crib. And I hate to beat a dead horse but, why in the HELL is Mark Simoneau still playing for us, he sucks BIG TIME. I almost up chucked when his stupid ass let a third string TE catch a TD on him, no special move, no pump fake, no nothing, A THIRD STRING TE ran right up the middle and caught a TD, PATHETIC!!!!!! We all want to chastise JD, and he definitely deserve some of it but, please stop blaming him for our defensive problems, our defensive scheme and philosophies sucks, BIG TIME. Ten games in and yet no pass rush, no QB pressures or game changing sacks, yet we still don't BLITZ. Why? On one of those TD's JD gave up, it wasn't his fault, Bullocks was suppose to be the safety back there but he bit so hard on the play action, he ran all the way to the line of scrimmage allowing Johnson to run free for a TD. All I'm saying is I like his aggressiveness and the way he attacks the ball, we have to keep in mind that he played in that cover 2 his whole career in Indy and this defense is not working for none of the players, if you want to lay blame on somebody for the defensive problems, blame Coach Payton and Coach Gibbs, PERIOD!!!!!!!!

Re: It's not all on Jason David
 

I'm going to ask you the same question I asked to the Big Picture people on another thread who no one answered.

On that 73yd TD, who was Jason David supposed to be covering?

Because he was jogging there, staring at the QB as usual, with the closest player to him being A. Johnson about 10 yards away, catching a 73 yd TD.

Come to think of it, when 3rd Down gets burned, I always hear the "Bullocks was supposed to be helping him"... ok ... is Bullocks always supposed to pick up whoever 3rd Down decides to let get behind him?

And there were some "game changing" plays. The front 7 got a fumble early, which Mare amazingly enough converted into a 52 yd FG. But that momentum quickly changed when 3rd Down yet again got burned for a 73yd TD.

I don't know if you have played competitive sports , but there's nothing more frustrating that be killing yourself to make plays and gain some advantage, just to have one guy waste it on his bad play. I will refer again to the Rams game: 3rd and 9, 3rd and 12, 3rd and whatever, the Rams converted easily on who? Jason 3rd Down David.
Oh, yeah, it was Bullocks that didn't help him, and Simoneau sucks.

You can say whatever you want, and there is sub-par play out there, but you give 3rd downs like that, you are going to lose more games than win them.

Re: It's not all on Jason David
 

Agreeeeeed

Re: It's not all on Jason David
 

Evidently, you must not have played competitive sports yourself, because you didn't mention not once how the Texans TE's absolutely killed us. There's no way in the world a third string TE is supposed to run down the middle of the field WIDE OPEN for a TD, their TE's were wide open all freaking night for Christ sake. I'm not waving the "I love the JD flag" but, there's a hell of a lot more problems on this team than Jason David.

Re: It's not all on Jason David
 

What we have here folks is what is called a non-sequitur, where the first sentence has nothing to do with the second.

Now, let us recap the events of the 1st quarter, shall we? I'll just copy and paste from the ESPN play by play :

This is the first Hosuton drive:

As we can see, ol' Freddie Thomas and Shanlee were bringing it to the TE's. That was 2 TE's fumbling after they got hit by Saints players..

Then, off the fumble we get Mare to finally make a long field goal. Everything is going the Saints way... then, what happens?

Second Texans possession:

That's our boy 3rd Down giving up a total of 82 yards in one drive, or about 1/3 of all the yards Schaub had for the afternoon.. in one drive... including a 73 freaking yard TD, and any momentum the defense had ...

... now, a funny thing happens after that... there is a lot tackles made on Texan WRs by the FS and SF... hmmm... wonder why they are dropping back and can't be in the middle to support TE coverage, specially the SF??

Oh, we do hear about Jason David later.. giving up 3rd downs... looking at WRs make catches in front of him...

.. here, you check it out..
.ESPN - New Orleans vs. Houston Play-by-Play, November 18 2007 - NFL Football

.. and, obviously, this goes to my point that having a player give up plays not only so often but in the momentum chaing way he does (long TD's, crucial 3rd downs ) has to be very frustrating and demoralizing to the rest of the team.

Re: It's not all on Jason David
 

JD is the new AB. Momentum Killer

Re: It's not all on Jason David
 

Third Down. That's just funny. LMAO

Re: It's not all on Jason David
 

So, Simoneau is responsible for 1 touchdown to a third string tightend. OK, I give you that.

Jason David has given up how many touchdowns? I think. more than one this year. Hell, i'm afraid to go back and count them. I already don't like him enough. If I went back and counted them, oh well, let's just say he wouldn't be my favorite player!

P.S. By the way, I have played competative football. So be gentle with me.:)

Re: It's not all on Jason David
 

Bullocks was the one getting owned by TEs. He and David are both terrible. David gets all the blame, but reither do jack out there. On that 73 yarder, did you see how bad Bullocks bit on the PA fake? He's been playing football for how long? Did they not run the play-action in the Big 12? He left his teammate out there to get posterized.

It comes back to coaching. Considering the liability that David is at CB, the coaches should have the safeties trained to stay back in support at all costs. Every time he gets beat deep there is not a saftey in the area. So either the safties are not doing their job or the coaches are leaving David on an island to fend for himself. Either way, it's the coaches' fault.

Re: It's not all on Jason David
 

I'm not disagreeing with you on Bullocks, but you cannot train the safeties to just drop back in support at any cost, because that cost is having the middle of the field open. That was my point about the safeties tackling WRs after the 73 yd TD. Because they are dropping back to support a guy who cannot cover my grandmother - and she's dead - the mid-range was opened to the TEs. I do understand the point about the FS supporting David, but he cannot possibly support him on EVERY pass play.

..and I will agree with you about the coaching. At one point, you got to realize 3rd Down can't handle it and find someone to replace him

Re: It's not all on Jason David
 

You're right, you can't give saftey support on every play, but I have yet to see a saftey make a play on a single deep ball. These guys (Harper and Bullocks) have one int between them and honestly, I could have made that catch that Bullocks made. That ball probably would have been a intentional grounding call if it were incomplete, which begs the question, what was he doing there?

My main point is that regardless of how terrible Jason David is, there are two decent players in our entire defensive back 7. There's plenty of blame to go around. David's screw ups are highly visible - everyone sees that #42 fultilely running after the reciver, but Simoneau, for example, is tougher to evaluate because his screw ups are harder to see during a live broadcast.

Re: It's not all on Jason David
 

"but Simoneau, for example, is tougher to evaluate because his screw ups are harder to see during a live broadcast."

Maybe for most, this is true but I see them, having played a bit of MLB. He does get trapped quite a bit and is caught in the melee a good bit. He's not a starter in my books either. But neither was I to some. I just stuck my nose where I thought it should be. I was slow by all descriptions But was rarely out of place. I wasn't afraid to place myself anywhere, hence the physical condition I'm in now. $ knee operations,9 bad discs. Any various aand sundry other things we won't go into. But Simomeau is the best we have right now. He's not great, but by the same token he ain't terrible either. I have seen worse with the Saints. Don't ask me to name them right now cause I can't. I just feel,he gave up one touchdown this week to a tightend, but David has given up a multitude of touchdowns this season.

Re: It's not all on Jason David
 

… and I agree with you, there is plenty of blame to go around.
And Simoneau isn’t Singletary, no question.
But it is not that 3rd Down’s mistakes are more visible, sure they are, but how often they come, and how devastating they are to any momentum the team can amass.

At least Simoneau is in the middle of the play; he may get pushed around, but at least he’s there. But every time you see that #42 running 10 yards behind a streaking Andre Johnson or Joey Galloway or Terry Holt or whoever happens to be on that side of the field for a long TD or a long 3rd down conversion, you ask yourself, who or what the hell was David covering?

… and I guess as long as I’m piling it on 3rd Down, I need to pile it on the coaching staff for allowing this to happen. Try Jason Craft, or Fred Thomas. Heck, try Lance Moore at CB. Can’t get any worst than it is now, that’s for sure…

Re: It's not all on Jason David
 

When can we all just come to the realization that this team is just bad. Here are the players I'd keep on this defense:

Charles Grant, Will Smith, Scott Fujita, Mike McKenzie, and maybe Roman Harper.

Simoneau is terrible. Too slow to cover anybody in the NFL, it's just a joke to put him against any athletic TE (see Dallas Clark, Randy McMichael, and Owen Daniels' performances).

Shanle is a good backup, so it's a good thing we have him starting.

Jason David is hands down the worst cornerback in the NFL. Not even Fred Thomas got burned this consistently.

Bullocks seems to be regressing every season. He's a liability in pass coverage, but unlike Roy Williams who is just as bad in pass coverage, Bullocks doesn't make up for it with good run support.

Our DTs are a bunch of scrubs. Sure Hollis is fun to watch because he's so fat and he can move, but the interior of the line gets no push. Besides HT, we have a bunch of street free agents that nobody else wanted. Again, the problem is that they are starting for us.

Re: It's not all on Jason David
 

David is the worst cog in the machine, without a doubt.

I disagree with one thing that The Deuce said, though. I like our DTs a lot. Brian Young was playing at a high level before he got hurt. He was making sacks and playing good run D. HT may just go to the probowl this year. He's been lights out in the run game.

Re: It's not all on Jason David
 

Thank you. I am not in support of David at he is guilty as much as the next guy but to sit down and look at the play and how each member of the unit reacts and if they are carrying out there assignments the Safties are VERY SUSPECT. Bullocks is out of place and running around like a chicken with his head cut off. I know there were a lot of people excited about him when we got him but he isn't doing his job. The Texan throw the ball where ever he was more times than any other DB. I wounder if they saw the same thing I did... lets throw the ball where Bullocks is because chances are he won't be there when the ball gets there.

Re: It's not all on Jason David
 

Neither is David for that matter. Yet you're still in favor of starting David, stating that he isn't bad, good tackler, plays with great intensity, and he's the best we have.

All proven to be wrong.

:idea::popcorn:

Re: It's not all on Jason David
 

Tobias you are dead on. I think when david was hurt our defense played much better. when you have a hole on that side at corner, like we do, it makes everything else open up. we are basically playing 10 on 11 ball, all game. wheres the kid?????? is he hurt still?

Re: It's not all on Jason David
 

[QUOTE=WhoDat205;146928]David is the worst cog in the machine, without a doubt.[QUOTE]

WITHOUT A DOUBT! He's a little guy but he has big heart. His size, lack of speed, along with his pooooooooooor technique has been atrocious this year. Remember how down everyone was last year on Freddie. I cringed when they picked up a 5' 8'' 180 corner as the address to our 5' 9" 185 corner troubles. I had no clue what they were thinking, especially when I was thinking about a 6' 3" 205 shutdown type corner...take half of the field out of play type corner...I dare you to look over here type corner. Hoping for the best hasn't help at all. Trying to root mediocrity up to the exceptional ranks has been a tough sell. We need quality players in several key spots on our D. It doesn't matter that we are small, and slow (everywhere), at least hit somebody when you are out there; punish some people after the catch. We have blown coverages, poor communications, poor technique on tackles, limited pressure, few take aways, low percentage 3rd down stops. Freddie should be starting!
Freddie should be starting over David! He is not the best ever, but he covers better than David. We need more blitz packages utilized to force quicker throws to designated cover areas. We need to do a better job of keeping these guys off of the field. I hope that we get our holes patched up with a good draft and aggressive FA acquisitions.

Re: It's not all on Jason David
 

Man! Those were some lofty expectations. I just wanted to see someone at least 6' tall that could give the QB the impression of coverage from the far away :)

I know it's not going to happen, but that's why I'm hoping next FA period they go after that CB from Oakland... and how can they not... if not, I'm bringing back my Payslett moniker for coach..

Re: It's not all on Jason David
 

So you'd be in favor of starting 10 people on Defense instead of 11?

I think everyone has forgot how bad Fred Thomas was picked on... it was way worse and he made no plays. We go out and bring Craft in becuase he was so bad. Craft couldn't get the job done as a starting CB so we go out and look for another CB. The best CB's on our roster outside of MM is David and I'd start craft in the Nickeal.

You want to make the D better I suggest you fire the D Coach and get someone with a philosophy that works and knows how to coach these guys up and play DISIPLINED FOOTBALL. The problem is that we aren't playing disiplined football and that falls squarely on the Coaches no one else. When players aren't in the position they are suppose to be in to make plays its because they don't know where they are suppose to be or what they are suppose to be doing. That my friends is the problem. Its not one player its all of them on that D. No one is getting the job done.

When you call a defense play if you will. Everyone is suppose to know what the others are doing and where everyones area of responsiblity. They are clueless out there at times. COACHES FAULT not coaching up the D and preparing the dam team each week.

Do you think its funny that the D coach and others came from Dallas who weren't that good and now all of sudden they lose the coaches and now Dallas is good HMMMMM.

Re: It's not all on Jason David
 

Coach Gibbs Bio from the saints website (seems like PR crap to me)


When Sean Payton was hired, the first coach he pursued for his staff was defensive coordinator Gary Gibbs, and the addition of the experienced coach immediately paid dividends as Gibbs melded a unit with five new starters into one of the NFL’s most improved defenses. New Orleans ranked 11th in the league in defense in 2006, including third vs. the pass by allowing just 178.4 yards per contest.

With the disciplined, aggressive approach that Gibbs instilled, the Saints surrendered 17 points or less in eight games and gave up 76 points fewer than it had the year before. New Orleans posted 38 sacks and had 10 players record over 50 tackles. The Saints finished second in the NFC in the fewest first downs allowed (262), led the conference in pass defense and ranked sixth in the league in third-down efficiency allowed (34.7).

Gibbs came to New Orleans after spending the previous four years as the linebackers coach for the Dallas Cowboys, where he served on the same staff as Payton from 2003-05. It was Gibbs’ first NFL assignment after accumulating 22 years of college coaching experience, including six as head coach at the University of Oklahoma.

During Gibbs’ tenure in Dallas, the linebackers were one of the club’s most productive position groups and led an aggressive, opportunistic defense. Each year under his direction, linebackers finished at the top of the club’s tackle charts and posted some of the best totals in franchise history. It was also with Dallas where Gibbs first worked with current Saints’ standouts Scott Fujita (2005) and Scott Shanle (2003-05).

In 2005, Gibbs played a key role in the Cowboys’ transition to a 3-4 defensive alignment. With young players and first-year starters filling key positions, the linebackers were the defense’s top playmakers. In his first year in Dallas after being acquired in a trade on the eve of the regular-season opener, Fujita had 58 tackles, a pair of sacks and two forced fumbles while starting the last eight games.

The Cowboys’ three starting linebackers finished 2004 ranked in the top six on the team in tackles. Dat Nguyen was the club leader with 135 stops and added a career-high three interceptions. In 2003, the linebacker corps led the Cowboys defensive charge with the top two tacklers on the squad. In Gibbs’ first season in Dallas, LB Dexter Coakley led the club with 173 stops, the second-highest total in club history.

Re: It's not all on Jason David
 

I covered my stance on that at least 10 times the past couple of weeks. Don't feel the need to repeat myself over and over and over and over and over.

I can agree with that.

Incorrect. Players make plays. You can come up with the best schemes in the world but if the players can't execute, it makes no difference.

Both are at fault.

You obviously are clueless. I believe in Parcells tenure with these coaches, they only had one subpar season defensively. Am I going to dig it out for you... nah. No point posting something you're going to completely ignore because "stats are for losers".

Re: It's not all on Jason David
 

No way I'm buying that one. Fred gave up 2 touchdowns last year during his "toast" phase, right? David has given up about 1 a game while he's been healthy.

And don't forget that the only reason why Fred got burnt so bad was because he is waaaaaayyyyyyy past his prime. He got beat because he's lost a step. Jason David cannot claim the same thing. He's supposed to be entering his prime right now, and he's getting beaten more consistently than any cornerback I've ever seen. The guy is terrible.

Sure he has had a few "plays" that he's made, but do they make up for the 5 or 6 touchdowns he's given up? Not even close. Hearing his name literally makes me want to puke. I don't even feel bad for him, that's how bad he is. Typically I would feel a little sympathy for a guy who gets beaten that badly, but Jason David makes me want to vomit. There's no excuse for playing him. I'd move Roman Harper or somebody over to CB before I put Jason David in there again.

On a side note: WHAT EVER HAPPENED TO PAYTON NOT PLAYING FAVORITES? (DAVID, SIMONEAU, MARE....)

Re: It's not all on Jason David
 

Bullocks should have been the center fielder on that play but got suckered into a play action so bad his momma is still trying to get up from the stroke she had, but David should have had the coverage no doubt. 75% David, 25% Bullocks and if I see David jogging after another wide receiver who just beat him by 20 yards I'm gonna, well do nothing because I'm not Payvid (my new name for coach payton since he's joined at the hip with David) but if I were I would bench him early, soon and often, like right freaking now. Even if coach has faith in him no one else on the team does and that hurt's the team. Hell, David even know's he's screwing up every game and ain't doing a damn thing to change it, same ole same ole in the Big Easy folks.

Johnson should be fined a games pay for that crap. He gets paid good money to what? Oh yeah deflect balls so the other team can catch them, what a freaking loser.

We need a defensive coach and Gibbs isn't it, ever wonder why the Big Tuna was ok with let some of the coaches come on over, because he knew they were crap.

Coach better pull his head out quick. Thomas is a great athlete probably a better runner than Reggie from behind the line and we don't play him. Why Coach, Why? Because your stupid that's why or I guess we need to showcase Bush for the NFL and his sponsors. Are you getting a kickback for the crap.

Man it's the same ole crap in the Big Easy and we should all be mad as hell. Just when you think they're going to do it they freaking fold, Does anyone remember our first playoff game. When the hopes were so high, or the playoff game in New Orleans against the Vikings and we got beat 400 to 3 or something like that. We've all seen this crap before and we shouldn't be surprised but we should be mad as hell.

I'm gonna give coach the benefit of the doubt until the second game of next season then I'm taking the gloves off. He earned that much from last year, but coach get your head out dude and soon because it's going to get ugly if you don't pay attention/ I don't think you will last as long as Haslett did and once you get fired from New Orleans head coaching jobs are hard to find in the NFL.

Re: It's not all on Jason David
 

What is up with this defense? Last year we ranked great against the pass mainly I think because teams knew it was easier to run against us. No reason to pass the ball when you can just run it up the middle for 4 or 5 yd gains. We really sucked against the run. This year with a few personnel changes (JD) teams realize no reason running the ball just throw a couple deep passes or slants over the middle and get a quick score. Maybe they should play nickel package all the time and force teams to run the ball at least limit the big play make the other team use at least 5 plays to score. If the other team only uses 2 wr use the nickel back to doulbe team with JD.