It's not all on Jason David

blacksaint · 11-19-2007, 08:46 PM

Did any of you guys notice that the Texans TE's were wide open all night? They killed us, our LB's can't cover a baby in a crib. And I hate to beat a dead horse but, why in the HELL is Mark Simoneau still playing for us, he sucks BIG TIME. I almost up chucked when his stupid ass let a third string TE catch a TD on him, no special move, no pump fake, no nothing, A THIRD STRING TE ran right up the middle and caught a TD, PATHETIC!!!!!! We all want to chastise JD, and he definitely deserve some of it but, please stop blaming him for our defensive problems, our defensive scheme and philosophies sucks, BIG TIME. Ten games in and yet no pass rush, no QB pressures or game changing sacks, yet we still don't BLITZ. Why? On one of those TD's JD gave up, it wasn't his fault, Bullocks was suppose to be the safety back there but he bit so hard on the play action, he ran all the way to the line of scrimmage allowing Johnson to run free for a TD. All I'm saying is I like his aggressiveness and the way he attacks the ball, we have to keep in mind that he played in that cover 2 his whole career in Indy and this defense is not working for none of the players, if you want to lay blame on somebody for the defensive problems, blame Coach Payton and Coach Gibbs, PERIOD!!!!!!!!

Tobias-Reiper · 11-19-2007, 09:34 PM

I'm going to ask you the same question I asked to the Big Picture people on another thread who no one answered.

On that 73yd TD, who was Jason David supposed to be covering?

Because he was jogging there, staring at the QB as usual, with the closest player to him being A. Johnson about 10 yards away, catching a 73 yd TD.

Come to think of it, when 3rd Down gets burned, I always hear the "Bullocks was supposed to be helping him"... ok ... is Bullocks always supposed to pick up whoever 3rd Down decides to let get behind him?

And there were some "game changing" plays. The front 7 got a fumble early, which Mare amazingly enough converted into a 52 yd FG. But that momentum quickly changed when 3rd Down yet again got burned for a 73yd TD.

I don't know if you have played competitive sports , but there's nothing more frustrating that be killing yourself to make plays and gain some advantage, just to have one guy waste it on his bad play. I will refer again to the Rams game: 3rd and 9, 3rd and 12, 3rd and whatever, the Rams converted easily on who? Jason 3rd Down David.
Oh, yeah, it was Bullocks that didn't help him, and Simoneau sucks.

You can say whatever you want, and there is sub-par play out there, but you give 3rd downs like that, you are going to lose more games than win them.

lynwood · 11-19-2007, 10:23 PM

Originally Posted by Tobias-Reiper

I'm going to ask you the same question I asked to the Big Picture people on another thread who no one answered.

On that 73yd TD, who was Jason David supposed to be covering?

Because he was jogging there, staring at the QB as usual, with the closest player to him being A. Johnson about 10 yards away, catching a 73 yd TD.

Come to think of it, when 3rd Down gets burned, I always hear the "Bullocks was supposed to be helping him"... ok ... is Bullocks always supposed to pick up whoever 3rd Down decides to let get behind him?

And there were some "game changing" plays. The front 7 got a fumble early, which Mare amazingly enough converted into a 52 yd FG. But that momentum quickly changed when 3rd Down yet again got burned for a 73yd TD.

I don't know if you have played competitive sports , but there's nothing more frustrating that be killing yourself to make plays and gain some advantage, just to have one guy waste it on his bad play. I will refer again to the Rams game: 3rd and 9, 3rd and 12, 3rd and whatever, the Rams converted easily on who? Jason 3rd Down David.
Oh, yeah, it was Bullocks that didn't help him, and Simoneau sucks.

You can say whatever you want, and there is sub-par play out there, but you give 3rd downs like that, you are going to lose more games than win them.

Agreeeeeed

blacksaint · 11-19-2007, 11:22 PM

Originally Posted by Tobias-Reiper

I'm going to ask you the same question I asked to the Big Picture people on another thread who no one answered.

On that 73yd TD, who was Jason David supposed to be covering?

Because he was jogging there, staring at the QB as usual, with the closest player to him being A. Johnson about 10 yards away, catching a 73 yd TD.

Come to think of it, when 3rd Down gets burned, I always hear the "Bullocks was supposed to be helping him"... ok ... is Bullocks always supposed to pick up whoever 3rd Down decides to let get behind him?

And there were some "game changing" plays. The front 7 got a fumble early, which Mare amazingly enough converted into a 52 yd FG. But that momentum quickly changed when 3rd Down yet again got burned for a 73yd TD.

I don't know if you have played competitive sports , but there's nothing more frustrating that be killing yourself to make plays and gain some advantage, just to have one guy waste it on his bad play. I will refer again to the Rams game: 3rd and 9, 3rd and 12, 3rd and whatever, the Rams converted easily on who? Jason 3rd Down David.
Oh, yeah, it was Bullocks that didn't help him, and Simoneau sucks.

You can say whatever you want, and there is sub-par play out there, but you give 3rd downs like that, you are going to lose more games than win them.

Evidently, you must not have played competitive sports yourself, because you didn't mention not once how the Texans TE's absolutely killed us. There's no way in the world a third string TE is supposed to run down the middle of the field WIDE OPEN for a TD, their TE's were wide open all freaking night for Christ sake. I'm not waving the "I love the JD flag" but, there's a hell of a lot more problems on this team than Jason David.

Tobias-Reiper · 11-20-2007, 06:28 AM

Originally Posted by blacksaint

Evidently, you must not have played competitive sports yourself, because you didn't mention not once how the Texans TE's absolutely killed us.

What we have here folks is what is called a non-sequitur, where the first sentence has nothing to do with the second.

There's no way in the world a third string TE is supposed to run down the middle of the field WIDE OPEN for a TD, their TE's were wide open all freaking night for Christ sake. I'm not waving the "I love the JD flag" but, there's a hell of a lot more problems on this team than Jason David.

Now, let us recap the events of the 1st quarter, shall we? I'll just copy and paste from the ESPN play by play :

This is the first Hosuton drive:

1st and 10 at HST 27(14:54) M.Schaub pass to V.Leach to HST 29 for 2 yards (F.Thomas). FUMBLES (F.Thomas), ball out of bounds at HST 29.

2nd and 8 at HST 29(14:54) R.Dayne left tackle to HST 33 for 4 yards (J.Cooper).

3rd and 4 at HST 33(13:47) (Shotgun) M.Schaub pass short middle to O.Daniels to HST 38 for 5 yards (S.Shanle). FUMBLES (S.Shanle), RECOVERED by NO-S.Fujita at HST 38. Houston challenged the fumble ruling, and the play was Upheld. (Timeout #1 at 13:29.)

As we can see, ol' Freddie Thomas and Shanlee were bringing it to the TE's. That was 2 TE's fumbling after they got hit by Saints players..

Then, off the fumble we get Mare to finally make a long field goal. Everything is going the Saints way... then, what happens?

Second Texans possession:

1st and 10 at HST 15(12:01) M.Schaub pass short left to K.Walter to HST 24 for 9 yards(J.David)

2nd and 1 at HST 24(11:26) R.Dayne left tackle to HST 27 for 3 yards (H.Thomas).

1st and 10 at HST 27(10:54) M.Schaub pass deep middle to A.Johnson for 73 yards, TOUCHDOWN.36

That's our boy 3rd Down giving up a total of 82 yards in one drive, or about 1/3 of all the yards Schaub had for the afternoon.. in one drive... including a 73 freaking yard TD, and any momentum the defense had ...

... now, a funny thing happens after that... there is a lot tackles made on Texan WRs by the FS and SF... hmmm... wonder why they are dropping back and can't be in the middle to support TE coverage, specially the SF??

Oh, we do hear about Jason David later.. giving up 3rd downs... looking at WRs make catches in front of him...

.. here, you check it out..
.ESPN - New Orleans vs. Houston Play-by-Play, November 18 2007 - NFL Football

.. and, obviously, this goes to my point that having a player give up plays not only so often but in the momentum chaing way he does (long TD's, crucial 3rd downs ) has to be very frustrating and demoralizing to the rest of the team.

lynwood · 11-20-2007, 06:38 AM

JD is the new AB. Momentum Killer

saintfan · 11-20-2007, 07:01 AM

Third Down. That's just funny. LMAO

JOESAM2002 · 11-20-2007, 07:52 AM

So, Simoneau is responsible for 1 touchdown to a third string tightend. OK, I give you that.

Jason David has given up how many touchdowns? I think. more than one this year. Hell, i'm afraid to go back and count them. I already don't like him enough. If I went back and counted them, oh well, let's just say he wouldn't be my favorite player!

P.S. By the way, I have played competative football. So be gentle with me.

WhoDat205 · 11-20-2007, 08:12 AM

Bullocks was the one getting owned by TEs. He and David are both terrible. David gets all the blame, but reither do jack out there. On that 73 yarder, did you see how bad Bullocks bit on the PA fake? He's been playing football for how long? Did they not run the play-action in the Big 12? He left his teammate out there to get posterized.

It comes back to coaching. Considering the liability that David is at CB, the coaches should have the safeties trained to stay back in support at all costs. Every time he gets beat deep there is not a saftey in the area. So either the safties are not doing their job or the coaches are leaving David on an island to fend for himself. Either way, it's the coaches' fault.

Tobias-Reiper · 11-20-2007, 08:26 AM

Originally Posted by WhoDat205

Bullocks was the one getting owned by TEs. He and David are both terrible. David gets all the blame, but reither do jack out there. On that 73 yarder, did you see how bad Bullocks bit on the PA fake? He's been playing football for how long? Did they not run the play-action in the Big 12? He left his teammate out there to get posterized.

It comes back to coaching. Considering the liability that David is at CB, the coaches should have the safeties trained to stay back in support at all costs. Every time he gets beat deep there is not a saftey in the area. So either the safties are not doing their job or the coaches are leaving David on an island to fend for himself. Either way, it's the coaches' fault.

I'm not disagreeing with you on Bullocks, but you cannot train the safeties to just drop back in support at any cost, because that cost is having the middle of the field open. That was my point about the safeties tackling WRs after the 73 yd TD. Because they are dropping back to support a guy who cannot cover my grandmother - and she's dead - the mid-range was opened to the TEs. I do understand the point about the FS supporting David, but he cannot possibly support him on EVERY pass play.

..and I will agree with you about the coaching. At one point, you got to realize 3rd Down can't handle it and find someone to replace him

11-19-2007, 08:46 PM	#1
blacksaint DARE TO ENTER Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Home Sweet Home, NEW ORLEANS, La. Posts: 1,154	It's not all on Jason David Did any of you guys notice that the Texans TE's were wide open all night? They killed us, our LB's can't cover a baby in a crib. And I hate to beat a dead horse but, why in the HELL is Mark Simoneau still playing for us, he sucks BIG TIME. I almost up chucked when his stupid ass let a third string TE catch a TD on him, no special move, no pump fake, no nothing, A THIRD STRING TE ran right up the middle and caught a TD, PATHETIC!!!!!! We all want to chastise JD, and he definitely deserve some of it but, please stop blaming him for our defensive problems, our defensive scheme and philosophies sucks, BIG TIME. Ten games in and yet no pass rush, no QB pressures or game changing sacks, yet we still don't BLITZ. Why? On one of those TD's JD gave up, it wasn't his fault, Bullocks was suppose to be the safety back there but he bit so hard on the play action, he ran all the way to the line of scrimmage allowing Johnson to run free for a TD. All I'm saying is I like his aggressiveness and the way he attacks the ball, we have to keep in mind that he played in that cover 2 his whole career in Indy and this defense is not working for none of the players, if you want to lay blame on somebody for the defensive problems, blame Coach Payton and Coach Gibbs, PERIOD!!!!!!!!
	saint4life (504)

11-19-2007, 09:34 PM	#2
Tobias-Reiper Merces Letifer Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 4,161	Re: It's not all on Jason David I'm going to ask you the same question I asked to the Big Picture people on another thread who no one answered. On that 73yd TD, who was Jason David supposed to be covering? Because he was jogging there, staring at the QB as usual, with the closest player to him being A. Johnson about 10 yards away, catching a 73 yd TD. Come to think of it, when 3rd Down gets burned, I always hear the "Bullocks was supposed to be helping him"... ok ... is Bullocks always supposed to pick up whoever 3rd Down decides to let get behind him? And there were some "game changing" plays. The front 7 got a fumble early, which Mare amazingly enough converted into a 52 yd FG. But that momentum quickly changed when 3rd Down yet again got burned for a 73yd TD. I don't know if you have played competitive sports , but there's nothing more frustrating that be killing yourself to make plays and gain some advantage, just to have one guy waste it on his bad play. I will refer again to the Rams game: 3rd and 9, 3rd and 12, 3rd and whatever, the Rams converted easily on who? Jason 3rd Down David. Oh, yeah, it was Bullocks that didn't help him, and Simoneau sucks. You can say whatever you want, and there is sub-par play out there, but you give 3rd downs like that, you are going to lose more games than win them.
	'Cause the simple man pays the thrills, the bills and the pills that kill Last edited by Tobias-Reiper; 11-19-2007 at 09:41 PM..

11-19-2007, 10:23 PM	#3
lynwood 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Hockley, Tx Posts: 1,515	Re: It's not all on Jason David Originally Posted by Tobias-Reiper I'm going to ask you the same question I asked to the Big Picture people on another thread who no one answered. On that 73yd TD, who was Jason David supposed to be covering? Because he was jogging there, staring at the QB as usual, with the closest player to him being A. Johnson about 10 yards away, catching a 73 yd TD. Come to think of it, when 3rd Down gets burned, I always hear the "Bullocks was supposed to be helping him"... ok ... is Bullocks always supposed to pick up whoever 3rd Down decides to let get behind him? And there were some "game changing" plays. The front 7 got a fumble early, which Mare amazingly enough converted into a 52 yd FG. But that momentum quickly changed when 3rd Down yet again got burned for a 73yd TD. I don't know if you have played competitive sports , but there's nothing more frustrating that be killing yourself to make plays and gain some advantage, just to have one guy waste it on his bad play. I will refer again to the Rams game: 3rd and 9, 3rd and 12, 3rd and whatever, the Rams converted easily on who? Jason 3rd Down David. Oh, yeah, it was Bullocks that didn't help him, and Simoneau sucks. You can say whatever you want, and there is sub-par play out there, but you give 3rd downs like that, you are going to lose more games than win them. Agreeeeeed

11-19-2007, 11:22 PM	#4
blacksaint DARE TO ENTER Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Home Sweet Home, NEW ORLEANS, La. Posts: 1,154	Re: It's not all on Jason David Originally Posted by Tobias-Reiper I'm going to ask you the same question I asked to the Big Picture people on another thread who no one answered. On that 73yd TD, who was Jason David supposed to be covering? Because he was jogging there, staring at the QB as usual, with the closest player to him being A. Johnson about 10 yards away, catching a 73 yd TD. Come to think of it, when 3rd Down gets burned, I always hear the "Bullocks was supposed to be helping him"... ok ... is Bullocks always supposed to pick up whoever 3rd Down decides to let get behind him? And there were some "game changing" plays. The front 7 got a fumble early, which Mare amazingly enough converted into a 52 yd FG. But that momentum quickly changed when 3rd Down yet again got burned for a 73yd TD. I don't know if you have played competitive sports , but there's nothing more frustrating that be killing yourself to make plays and gain some advantage, just to have one guy waste it on his bad play. I will refer again to the Rams game: 3rd and 9, 3rd and 12, 3rd and whatever, the Rams converted easily on who? Jason 3rd Down David. Oh, yeah, it was Bullocks that didn't help him, and Simoneau sucks. You can say whatever you want, and there is sub-par play out there, but you give 3rd downs like that, you are going to lose more games than win them. Evidently, you must not have played competitive sports yourself, because you didn't mention not once how the Texans TE's absolutely killed us. There's no way in the world a third string TE is supposed to run down the middle of the field WIDE OPEN for a TD, their TE's were wide open all freaking night for Christ sake. I'm not waving the "I love the JD flag" but, there's a hell of a lot more problems on this team than Jason David.

11-20-2007, 06:28 AM	#5
Tobias-Reiper Merces Letifer Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 4,161	Re: It's not all on Jason David Originally Posted by blacksaint Evidently, you must not have played competitive sports yourself, because you didn't mention not once how the Texans TE's absolutely killed us. What we have here folks is what is called a non-sequitur, where the first sentence has nothing to do with the second. There's no way in the world a third string TE is supposed to run down the middle of the field WIDE OPEN for a TD, their TE's were wide open all freaking night for Christ sake. I'm not waving the "I love the JD flag" but, there's a hell of a lot more problems on this team than Jason David. Now, let us recap the events of the 1st quarter, shall we? I'll just copy and paste from the ESPN play by play : This is the first Hosuton drive: 1st and 10 at HST 27(14:54) M.Schaub pass to V.Leach to HST 29 for 2 yards (F.Thomas). FUMBLES (F.Thomas), ball out of bounds at HST 29. 2nd and 8 at HST 29(14:54) R.Dayne left tackle to HST 33 for 4 yards (J.Cooper). 3rd and 4 at HST 33(13:47) (Shotgun) M.Schaub pass short middle to O.Daniels to HST 38 for 5 yards (S.Shanle). FUMBLES (S.Shanle), RECOVERED by NO-S.Fujita at HST 38. Houston challenged the fumble ruling, and the play was Upheld. (Timeout #1 at 13:29.) As we can see, ol' Freddie Thomas and Shanlee were bringing it to the TE's. That was 2 TE's fumbling after they got hit by Saints players.. Then, off the fumble we get Mare to finally make a long field goal. Everything is going the Saints way... then, what happens? Second Texans possession: 1st and 10 at HST 15(12:01) M.Schaub pass short left to K.Walter to HST 24 for 9 yards(J.David) 2nd and 1 at HST 24(11:26) R.Dayne left tackle to HST 27 for 3 yards (H.Thomas). 1st and 10 at HST 27(10:54) M.Schaub pass deep middle to A.Johnson for 73 yards, TOUCHDOWN.36 That's our boy 3rd Down giving up a total of 82 yards in one drive, or about 1/3 of all the yards Schaub had for the afternoon.. in one drive... including a 73 freaking yard TD, and any momentum the defense had ... ... now, a funny thing happens after that... there is a lot tackles made on Texan WRs by the FS and SF... hmmm... wonder why they are dropping back and can't be in the middle to support TE coverage, specially the SF?? Oh, we do hear about Jason David later.. giving up 3rd downs... looking at WRs make catches in front of him... .. here, you check it out.. .ESPN - New Orleans vs. Houston Play-by-Play, November 18 2007 - NFL Football .. and, obviously, this goes to my point that having a player give up plays not only so often but in the momentum chaing way he does (long TD's, crucial 3rd downs ) has to be very frustrating and demoralizing to the rest of the team.
	'Cause the simple man pays the thrills, the bills and the pills that kill Last edited by Tobias-Reiper; 11-20-2007 at 06:31 AM..

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11-20-2007, 06:38 AM	#6
lynwood 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Hockley, Tx Posts: 1,515	Re: It's not all on Jason David JD is the new AB. Momentum Killer

11-20-2007, 07:01 AM	#7
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	Re: It's not all on Jason David Third Down. That's just funny. LMAO

11-20-2007, 07:52 AM	#8
JOESAM2002 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: CRYSTAL BEACH TEXAS Posts: 4,100	Re: It's not all on Jason David So, Simoneau is responsible for 1 touchdown to a third string tightend. OK, I give you that. Jason David has given up how many touchdowns? I think. more than one this year. Hell, i'm afraid to go back and count them. I already don't like him enough. If I went back and counted them, oh well, let's just say he wouldn't be my favorite player! P.S. By the way, I have played competative football. So be gentle with me.

11-20-2007, 08:12 AM	#9
WhoDat205 Prediction Pain Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Birmingham, AL Posts: 1,082 Blog Entries: 2	Re: It's not all on Jason David Bullocks was the one getting owned by TEs. He and David are both terrible. David gets all the blame, but reither do jack out there. On that 73 yarder, did you see how bad Bullocks bit on the PA fake? He's been playing football for how long? Did they not run the play-action in the Big 12? He left his teammate out there to get posterized. It comes back to coaching. Considering the liability that David is at CB, the coaches should have the safeties trained to stay back in support at all costs. Every time he gets beat deep there is not a saftey in the area. So either the safties are not doing their job or the coaches are leaving David on an island to fend for himself. Either way, it's the coaches' fault.
	"defence's personal to allwats double team or watch is over, that one reason why the saints or not any good." - Vador101

11-20-2007, 08:26 AM	#10
Tobias-Reiper Merces Letifer Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 4,161	Re: It's not all on Jason David Originally Posted by WhoDat205 Bullocks was the one getting owned by TEs. He and David are both terrible. David gets all the blame, but reither do jack out there. On that 73 yarder, did you see how bad Bullocks bit on the PA fake? He's been playing football for how long? Did they not run the play-action in the Big 12? He left his teammate out there to get posterized. It comes back to coaching. Considering the liability that David is at CB, the coaches should have the safeties trained to stay back in support at all costs. Every time he gets beat deep there is not a saftey in the area. So either the safties are not doing their job or the coaches are leaving David on an island to fend for himself. Either way, it's the coaches' fault. I'm not disagreeing with you on Bullocks, but you cannot train the safeties to just drop back in support at any cost, because that cost is having the middle of the field open. That was my point about the safeties tackling WRs after the 73 yd TD. Because they are dropping back to support a guy who cannot cover my grandmother - and she's dead - the mid-range was opened to the TEs. I do understand the point about the FS supporting David, but he cannot possibly support him on EVERY pass play. ..and I will agree with you about the coaching. At one point, you got to realize 3rd Down can't handle it and find someone to replace him
	'Cause the simple man pays the thrills, the bills and the pills that kill