That's About Right

mjf150 · 12-11-2007, 08:46 AM

With Tampa's loss Sunday, along with the Saint's Monday Night win, we should've be tied for the division lead, technically in the lead by virtue of the tie-breakers. If the "Reggie fumble", cost us a playoff spot, then it will be just another in a long line of botched plays that have done so in recent history. I count 4 just since 2001, but feel free to add to the list: Kyle Turley's helmet toss in 2001, the Culpepper 2-Pt conversion in 2002, Carney's missed extra point in 2003, and the Jets missed field goal in overtime in 2004.

hagan714 · 12-11-2007, 08:58 AM

OK first thing is first. That was not the "Reggie fumble". Credit goes were it should. The defense blew the play up from the get go. So lets not label it that way. The blame should rest on the left side of the OL or just give credit to the right side of the tampa defense. That or a bad play call.
Turley I can not blame. He did what was right in my view. Brooks career could have ended on that play. I do not blame him at all. I only wish there was a head in the helmet when he tossed it.
The rest I agree with.

mjf150 · 12-11-2007, 09:38 AM

Facts are facts whether you believe that it was "Reggie's fumble" or not, he is the one who is credited with (see below). I'm not judging whether any of the plays are right or wrong, I'm just pointing out 4 specific plays in 4 consecutive years that cost us a spot in the playoffs.

Reggie Bush - New Orleans Saints - NFL - Yahoo! Sports

Tobias-Reiper · 12-11-2007, 09:44 AM

Originally Posted by mjf150

With Tampa's loss Sunday, along with the Saint's Monday Night win, we should've be tied for the division lead, technically in the lead by virtue of the tie-breakers. If the "Reggie fumble", cost us a playoff spot, then it will be just another in a long line of botched plays that have done so in recent history. I count 4 just since 2001, but feel free to add to the list: Kyle Turley's helmet toss in 2001, the Culpepper 2-Pt conversion in 2002, Carney's missed extra point in 2003, and the Jets missed field goal in overtime in 2004.

.....you are waaaaaaaayyyyyy off.

First, it wasn't Reggie who fumbled. It was Devery. It was a bad handoff from Reggie, no question, but the ball did hit Devery in the hands.

In 2001, it wasn't the helmet toss in October that cost the Saints a playoff spot, it was the 0-4 record in December.

In 2002, it wasn't the 2 pt conversion that cost the Saints a playoff spot, it was losing to the 1-13 Bengals the week after, and losing to the 6-9 Panthers after that, for another outstanding 1-3 record in December.

For the millionth time, the missed extra point in the Jacksonville game would have only TIED the game, not won it. And even had the Saints won that game, they would've finished 9-7, behind 6 other teams that had 10-6 or better records.

as for the Jets' missed field goal, I tend to think that it was the 8-8 record that kept the Saints out of the playoffs, and not a play by another team on a game the Saints didn't play. had the Jets made that field goal, it would've been a gift for the Saints, but it certainly didn't cost the Saints anything, since they didn't have it to begin with.

BlackHoleSlam · 12-11-2007, 09:48 AM

What tiebreaker would we have held over Tampa Bay? The Saints already had 2 division loses, whereas Tampa would have had only 1.

Also, Turley didn't cost us a playoff spot in 2001.....losing the final 4 games of the season did.

In 2003 John Carney could have split the uprights on that extra point, and the Saints would still have been sitting at home for the playoffs, because Seattle won their game that afternoon (Seattle would have had to "lose out", along with the Saints winning the rest of the way).

EDIT: looks like me and Tobias had the same thoughts, at the same time.

BlackHoleSlam · 12-11-2007, 09:53 AM

Originally Posted by Tobias-Reiper

as for the Jets' missed field goal, I tend to think that it was the 8-8 record that kept the Saints out of the playoffs, and not a play by another team on a game the Saints didn't play.

I still believe to this day that the Saints would have beaten Green Bay in the first round of the playoffs that year. Philadelphia would have brought them back to earth the next week, but still....

mjf150 · 12-11-2007, 09:54 AM

Originally Posted by Tobias-Reiper

.....you are waaaaaaaayyyyyy off.

First, it wasn't Reggie who fumbled. It was Devery. It was a bad handoff from Reggie, no question, but the ball did hit Devery in the hands.

Actually, you're wrong. If you click the following link, you'll find that it was Reggie who was credited for the fumble, not Henderson. Reggie Bush - New Orleans Saints - NFL - Yahoo! Sports

Tobias-Reiper · 12-11-2007, 09:55 AM

Originally Posted by BlackHoleSlam

EDIT: looks like me and Tobias had the same thoughts, at the same time.

... that's because great minds think alike

Tobias-Reiper · 12-11-2007, 10:15 AM

Originally Posted by mjf150

Actually, you're wrong. If you click the following link, you find that it was Reggie who was credited for the fumble, not Henderson. Reggie Bush - New Orleans Saints - NFL - Yahoo! Sports

I don't care who was "credited" with what. Reggie didn't fumble the ball. Fumbling by definition means the player lost control of the ball. Reggie never lost control of the ball. He transferred control of it to another player, and hit Devery in the hands. I'm not excusing the bad decision of tossing the ball, because it was, nor putting all the blame on Devery because it was a poor toss, but it was Devery who lost control of the ball.
I can further point out that if it weren't for Gaines pushing Jammal Brown into Devery's path, Devery would've been in a better position to grab that ball. Not to mention the coach calling that play, with the one guy who's gimping on one leg tossing the ball to a guy who has the dropsies.

So it was more of a series of circumstances that lead to the Saints losing control of the football. But f you want to hang your hat on that stat and call it "The Reggie Fumble", go ahead.

In any case, as it has been pointed out, even had the Saints won that game, they'd still be one game behind the Bucs, who have the better division and conference record.

WhoDatQB · 12-11-2007, 02:19 PM

Originally Posted by Tobias-Reiper

I don't care who was "credited" with what. Reggie didn't fumble the ball. Fumbling by definition means the player lost control of the ball. Reggie never lost control of the ball. He transferred control of it to another player, and hit Devery in the hands. I'm not excusing the bad decision of tossing the ball, because it was, nor putting all the blame on Devery because it was a poor toss, but it was Devery who lost control of the ball.
I can further point out that if it weren't for Gaines pushing Jammal Brown into Devery's path, Devery would've been in a better position to grab that ball. Not to mention the coach calling that play, with the one guy who's gimping on one leg tossing the ball to a guy who has the dropsies.

So it was more of a series of circumstances that lead to the Saints losing control of the football. But f you want to hang your hat on that stat and call it "The Reggie Fumble", go ahead.

In any case, as it has been pointed out, even had the Saints won that game, they'd still be one game behind the Bucs, who have the better division and conference record.

============

It is as much a fumble by Reggie as it was by Devry, in any case, Reggie threw it behind and high, Devry didn't make the catch. Peyton cost us this game with that play call, he knows it and has owned up to it. Reggie has owned up to it.

They both think it is their fault, and it will not cost us a spot in the playoffs, loosing one of the next three will though.

The loss to the Panthers, the loss to the Texans or the loss to the Rams should be where we look if we win out and miss the playoffs, not to a play call that should not have been made, and a pitch that should not have been made.

12-11-2007, 08:46 AM	#1
mjf150 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 752	That's About Right With Tampa's loss Sunday, along with the Saint's Monday Night win, we should've be tied for the division lead, technically in the lead by virtue of the tie-breakers. If the "Reggie fumble", cost us a playoff spot, then it will be just another in a long line of botched plays that have done so in recent history. I count 4 just since 2001, but feel free to add to the list: Kyle Turley's helmet toss in 2001, the Culpepper 2-Pt conversion in 2002, Carney's missed extra point in 2003, and the Jets missed field goal in overtime in 2004.
mjf150 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 752

12-11-2007, 08:58 AM	#2
hagan714 LB Mentallity Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 15,870 Blog Entries: 68	Re: That's About Right OK first thing is first. That was not the "Reggie fumble". Credit goes were it should. The defense blew the play up from the get go. So lets not label it that way. The blame should rest on the left side of the OL or just give credit to the right side of the tampa defense. That or a bad play call. Turley I can not blame. He did what was right in my view. Brooks career could have ended on that play. I do not blame him at all. I only wish there was a head in the helmet when he tossed it. The rest I agree with.
	"We may have lost the game, but you'll be hurting tomorrow." Doug Atkins

12-11-2007, 09:38 AM	#3
mjf150 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 752	Re: That's About Right Facts are facts whether you believe that it was "Reggie's fumble" or not, he is the one who is credited with (see below). I'm not judging whether any of the plays are right or wrong, I'm just pointing out 4 specific plays in 4 consecutive years that cost us a spot in the playoffs. Reggie Bush - New Orleans Saints - NFL - Yahoo! Sports
mjf150 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 752

12-11-2007, 09:44 AM	#4
Tobias-Reiper Merces Letifer Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 4,161	Re: That's About Right Originally Posted by mjf150 With Tampa's loss Sunday, along with the Saint's Monday Night win, we should've be tied for the division lead, technically in the lead by virtue of the tie-breakers. If the "Reggie fumble", cost us a playoff spot, then it will be just another in a long line of botched plays that have done so in recent history. I count 4 just since 2001, but feel free to add to the list: Kyle Turley's helmet toss in 2001, the Culpepper 2-Pt conversion in 2002, Carney's missed extra point in 2003, and the Jets missed field goal in overtime in 2004. .....you are waaaaaaaayyyyyy off. First, it wasn't Reggie who fumbled. It was Devery. It was a bad handoff from Reggie, no question, but the ball did hit Devery in the hands. In 2001, it wasn't the helmet toss in October that cost the Saints a playoff spot, it was the 0-4 record in December. In 2002, it wasn't the 2 pt conversion that cost the Saints a playoff spot, it was losing to the 1-13 Bengals the week after, and losing to the 6-9 Panthers after that, for another outstanding 1-3 record in December. For the millionth time, the missed extra point in the Jacksonville game would have only TIED the game, not won it. And even had the Saints won that game, they would've finished 9-7, behind 6 other teams that had 10-6 or better records. as for the Jets' missed field goal, I tend to think that it was the 8-8 record that kept the Saints out of the playoffs, and not a play by another team on a game the Saints didn't play. had the Jets made that field goal, it would've been a gift for the Saints, but it certainly didn't cost the Saints anything, since they didn't have it to begin with.
	'Cause the simple man pays the thrills, the bills and the pills that kill

12-11-2007, 09:48 AM	#5
BlackHoleSlam Registered Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 40	Re: That's About Right What tiebreaker would we have held over Tampa Bay? The Saints already had 2 division loses, whereas Tampa would have had only 1. Also, Turley didn't cost us a playoff spot in 2001.....losing the final 4 games of the season did. In 2003 John Carney could have split the uprights on that extra point, and the Saints would still have been sitting at home for the playoffs, because Seattle won their game that afternoon (Seattle would have had to "lose out", along with the Saints winning the rest of the way). EDIT: looks like me and Tobias had the same thoughts, at the same time.
BlackHoleSlam Registered Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 40	[QUOTE=saintswhodi;143884]Maybe you should hook yourself up with a [B]readeing[/B] comprehension for dummies book.[/QUOTE]

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12-11-2007, 09:53 AM	#6
BlackHoleSlam Registered Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 40	Re: That's About Right Originally Posted by Tobias-Reiper as for the Jets' missed field goal, I tend to think that it was the 8-8 record that kept the Saints out of the playoffs, and not a play by another team on a game the Saints didn't play. I still believe to this day that the Saints would have beaten Green Bay in the first round of the playoffs that year. Philadelphia would have brought them back to earth the next week, but still....
BlackHoleSlam Registered Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 40

12-11-2007, 09:54 AM	#7
mjf150 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 752	Re: That's About Right Originally Posted by Tobias-Reiper .....you are waaaaaaaayyyyyy off. First, it wasn't Reggie who fumbled. It was Devery. It was a bad handoff from Reggie, no question, but the ball did hit Devery in the hands. Actually, you're wrong. If you click the following link, you'll find that it was Reggie who was credited for the fumble, not Henderson. Reggie Bush - New Orleans Saints - NFL - Yahoo! Sports
mjf150 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 752	Last edited by mjf150; 12-11-2007 at 09:56 AM..

12-11-2007, 09:55 AM	#8
Tobias-Reiper Merces Letifer Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 4,161	Re: That's About Right Originally Posted by BlackHoleSlam EDIT: looks like me and Tobias had the same thoughts, at the same time. ... that's because great minds think alike

12-11-2007, 10:15 AM	#9
Tobias-Reiper Merces Letifer Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 4,161	Re: That's About Right Originally Posted by mjf150 Actually, you're wrong. If you click the following link, you find that it was Reggie who was credited for the fumble, not Henderson. Reggie Bush - New Orleans Saints - NFL - Yahoo! Sports I don't care who was "credited" with what. Reggie didn't fumble the ball. Fumbling by definition means the player lost control of the ball. Reggie never lost control of the ball. He transferred control of it to another player, and hit Devery in the hands. I'm not excusing the bad decision of tossing the ball, because it was, nor putting all the blame on Devery because it was a poor toss, but it was Devery who lost control of the ball. I can further point out that if it weren't for Gaines pushing Jammal Brown into Devery's path, Devery would've been in a better position to grab that ball. Not to mention the coach calling that play, with the one guy who's gimping on one leg tossing the ball to a guy who has the dropsies. So it was more of a series of circumstances that lead to the Saints losing control of the football. But f you want to hang your hat on that stat and call it "The Reggie Fumble", go ahead. In any case, as it has been pointed out, even had the Saints won that game, they'd still be one game behind the Bucs, who have the better division and conference record.
	'Cause the simple man pays the thrills, the bills and the pills that kill

12-11-2007, 02:19 PM	#10
WhoDatQB Boondock Saint Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: F***ing Atlanta Posts: 322	Re: That's About Right Originally Posted by Tobias-Reiper I don't care who was "credited" with what. Reggie didn't fumble the ball. Fumbling by definition means the player lost control of the ball. Reggie never lost control of the ball. He transferred control of it to another player, and hit Devery in the hands. I'm not excusing the bad decision of tossing the ball, because it was, nor putting all the blame on Devery because it was a poor toss, but it was Devery who lost control of the ball. I can further point out that if it weren't for Gaines pushing Jammal Brown into Devery's path, Devery would've been in a better position to grab that ball. Not to mention the coach calling that play, with the one guy who's gimping on one leg tossing the ball to a guy who has the dropsies. So it was more of a series of circumstances that lead to the Saints losing control of the football. But f you want to hang your hat on that stat and call it "The Reggie Fumble", go ahead. In any case, as it has been pointed out, even had the Saints won that game, they'd still be one game behind the Bucs, who have the better division and conference record. ============ It is as much a fumble by Reggie as it was by Devry, in any case, Reggie threw it behind and high, Devry didn't make the catch. Peyton cost us this game with that play call, he knows it and has owned up to it. Reggie has owned up to it. They both think it is their fault, and it will not cost us a spot in the playoffs, loosing one of the next three will though. The loss to the Panthers, the loss to the Texans or the loss to the Rams should be where we look if we win out and miss the playoffs, not to a play call that should not have been made, and a pitch that should not have been made.