Reason for Collapse?

Batwood · 08-07-2003, 02:15 PM

You have to realize now that teams playing the Saints will focus on stopping thier offense more now that the cats out of the bag so to speak. Game planning and mismatches will be key since teams will scrutinize film from last season and find ways to slow the Saints offense.

The Rams had that same problem also. Offenses are easier to gameplan against then a defense because they are initiating the play and the defense is reacting to that play. This is going to be the Saints biggest challenge this season IMO.

If Haslett does not put some wrinkles and new looks in the offense, teams will exploit them and it will be a long year and December won\'t be your worry.

[Edited on 7/8/2003 by Batwood]

BillyCarpenter1 · 08-07-2003, 02:25 PM

You have to realize now that teams playing the Saints will focus on stopping thier offense more now that the cats out of the bag so to speak. Game planning and mismatches will be key since teams will scrutinize film from last season and find ways to slow the Saints offense.

Boy that\'s a news flash ! ! If they can match up with Donte, Horn, Sloan, Brooks, McAllister, and Conwell then my hats off to them.

The Rams had that same problem also. Offenses are easier to gameplan against then a defense because they are initiating the play and the defense is reacting to that play. This is going to be the Saints biggest challenge this season IMO.

It\'s gonna take me longer to respond to this, because I have to stop laughing first. The Rams offense was stopped because of injuries chump. Offenses easier to game plan?? Please pull something out of that vast football pool of knowlege in your brain and explain that on to me?

If Haslett does not put some wrinkles and new looks in the offense, teams will exploit them and it will be a long year and December won\'t be your worry

.

We didn\'t put in new wrinkles in it the 2nd time we played the Bucs last year and well you know the rest........

Batwood · 08-08-2003, 09:29 AM

OK chump I\'ll explain again, offenses are easier to gameplan against then a defense because they are initiating the play and the defense is reacting to that play. Understand now genious?

The second time the Saints played the Bucs, they again barely squeeked by and then the Vikes, Bengals & Panthers learned from the Bucs and already figured out those \'old wrinkles\"

If Haslett remains status quo like in his last three games of last year look for the Saints offense to struggle as there is no surprise factor anymore.

BillyCarpenter1 · 08-08-2003, 09:51 AM

OK chump I\'ll explain again, offenses are easier to gameplan against then a defense because they are initiating the play and the defense is reacting to that play. Understand now genious?

:casstet: When a QB steps up behind the center he is able to look at the defensive formation and make adjustments on the fly. Defenses are in a constant stuggle to match up with multiple receiver formations and running backs coming out of the backfield as a receiver.

Hey, but don\'t take my word for it, just look at how much scoring has gone up in the last decade.

Now, one would think if your theory was true that scoring would be going down and not up.

I do understand your position, since the Bucs really have no offense, but facts do not bear out your theory !!

CHU CHUMP !!

coastalkid · 08-08-2003, 10:52 AM

Just any minute now I would expect to hear from BUCNUP???????????????????????????
BC you never learn to leave these guys alone. They bait you and you bite everytime. Very soon we\'ll all have to see that damn ring again just like Sapp\'s fat @#$ on batwood posts. I hate looking at either one of them.

Batwood · 08-08-2003, 11:26 AM

Defenses are in a constant stuggle to match up with multiple receiver formations and running backs coming out of the backfield as a receiver.

Hey, but don\'t take my word for it, just look at how much scoring has gone up in the last decade.

Now, one would think if your theory was true that scoring would be going down and not up.

I guess if you have a REAL defense (Tampa is #1 in the NFL since 1997 on fewest points allowed) you would know what I meant. Scoring did go down last year when teams played the Bucs (even your Saints scored less than thier average).

FYI, The Bucs \"no offense\'s\" in the last 4 games of last year scored 121 points to it\'s opponants 30. How did your defense do in the last 4 games of last year? Did they improve?

But I do understand your position, since the Saints really have no defense.

BADA-BOOM!

BillyCarpenter1 · 08-08-2003, 11:34 AM

Batwood,

While I know I\'m banging my head against a brink wall here. I hardly think the Bucs defense matches up to some of the great NFL defenses of all time. Like the 85\' Bears, the LT-Giants defense, or our DOME PATROL defense of the New Orleans Saints.

To say that scoring has not increased in the last decade is a totally false statement and if you wish to continue this debate, I would be more than happy, but if we\'re going to make this up as we go, it\'s really no fun.

Batwood · 08-08-2003, 11:51 AM

Never stated that scoring has not increased in the last decade. Just said it hasn\'t against the Bucs since 1997. Stat wise, the Bucs defense of 2002 is closer to the 85 Bears than any other you listed, but that was pre-free agency and less impressive than the Bucs run of 6 years post-free-agency. If they repeat with consistant numbers like last year they will go down as the best ever in history considering they are doing it with 16 game schedules and during free agency era. That is what is driving the defense this year.

BillyCarpenter1 · 08-08-2003, 12:19 PM

What you originally said was that offenses are easier to game plan for than defenses and I pointed out that scoring has gone up-which proves your theory wrong.

Thanks for admitting I was right

Botta Bing-Botta Boom-Botta-BAM....

SaintNik · 08-09-2003, 04:10 AM

You have to realize now that teams playing the Saints will focus on stopping thier offense more now that the cats out of the bag so to speak. Game planning and mismatches will be key since teams will scrutinize film from last season and find ways to slow the Saints offense.
_______________________________________________________________

Do you not think every defense focuses on stopping the opponents offense. More? Ability to stop the offense with personnel and schemes and a better knowledge of trends is usually best way to be more effective in stopping an offense. A bit of bad news here for you though buc. The Saints offense,as potent as it was last year, did not have the weapons it has this year (ie TE). Injuries late in the season had more to do with Saints december slide and lack of offensive production than how defenses prepared for it. Recall injuries to Brooks and Mcallister?

quote
_________________________________________________________________

The Rams had that same problem also. Offenses are easier to gameplan against then a defense because they are initiating the play and the defense is reacting to that play. This is going to be the Saints biggest challenge this season IMO.
______________________________________________________________

The Lams offense was slowed down more than anything by the injury bug as well as they have played stretches also without Warner and Faulk. Other teams defenses had more success against Rams offense post sb as defenses played their DBs closer to the line jamming the receivers and knocking them off of and out of their timing routes. Rams offense is designed to get ball out to open man on qucik reads. Warner lacks mobility and when timing of the offense is disrupted he has been sacked more often and had more picks thrown. Saints offense is similar in big strike ability, but takes deeper QB drops ( 7 & 5 Step drops instead of 5 and 3 step drops) allowing plays to develop further downfield. Also, AirRun Brooks has more movility in his lips than Warner has in his hips.

quote
_____________________________________________________________
If Haslett does not put some wrinkles and new looks in the offense, teams will exploit them and it will be a long year and December won\'t be your worry.

[Edited on 7/8/2003 by Batwood]

Our fans won\'t be worreid this year about September, October, November, or DECEMBER! Our concern will be ticket and travel arraingements in January and February. The Saints offense has not utilized the McCarthy playbook to its fullest due to lack of TE production, and the lack of experience with youth at all skill positions, Brooks now will have two and one-half years , McAllister and Stallworth each with one full year, experiece as starters. The offense has more depth and speed, and weapons this year than last. Brace yourself for what can\'t be stopped.

08-07-2003, 02:15 PM	#11
Batwood Registered Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 55	Reason for Collapse? You have to realize now that teams playing the Saints will focus on stopping thier offense more now that the cats out of the bag so to speak. Game planning and mismatches will be key since teams will scrutinize film from last season and find ways to slow the Saints offense. The Rams had that same problem also. Offenses are easier to gameplan against then a defense because they are initiating the play and the defense is reacting to that play. This is going to be the Saints biggest challenge this season IMO. If Haslett does not put some wrinkles and new looks in the offense, teams will exploit them and it will be a long year and December won\'t be your worry. [Edited on 7/8/2003 by Batwood]
Batwood Registered Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 55	\"I don\'t think he has many tools on offense that he actually likes,\" says Randy Mueller, former Saints GM. Wait until he gets his own players. Watch out.\" http://i.tsn.com/i/o/books/covers/su...rbowlcover.gif

08-07-2003, 02:25 PM	#12
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209	Reason for Collapse? You have to realize now that teams playing the Saints will focus on stopping thier offense more now that the cats out of the bag so to speak. Game planning and mismatches will be key since teams will scrutinize film from last season and find ways to slow the Saints offense. Boy that\'s a news flash ! ! If they can match up with Donte, Horn, Sloan, Brooks, McAllister, and Conwell then my hats off to them. The Rams had that same problem also. Offenses are easier to gameplan against then a defense because they are initiating the play and the defense is reacting to that play. This is going to be the Saints biggest challenge this season IMO. It\'s gonna take me longer to respond to this, because I have to stop laughing first. The Rams offense was stopped because of injuries chump. Offenses easier to game plan?? Please pull something out of that vast football pool of knowlege in your brain and explain that on to me? If Haslett does not put some wrinkles and new looks in the offense, teams will exploit them and it will be a long year and December won\'t be your worry . We didn\'t put in new wrinkles in it the 2nd time we played the Bucs last year and well you know the rest........
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209

08-08-2003, 09:29 AM	#13
Batwood Registered Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 55	Reason for Collapse? OK chump I\'ll explain again, offenses are easier to gameplan against then a defense because they are initiating the play and the defense is reacting to that play. Understand now genious? The second time the Saints played the Bucs, they again barely squeeked by and then the Vikes, Bengals & Panthers learned from the Bucs and already figured out those \'old wrinkles\" If Haslett remains status quo like in his last three games of last year look for the Saints offense to struggle as there is no surprise factor anymore.
Batwood Registered Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 55

08-08-2003, 09:51 AM	#14
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209	Reason for Collapse? OK chump I\'ll explain again, offenses are easier to gameplan against then a defense because they are initiating the play and the defense is reacting to that play. Understand now genious? :casstet: When a QB steps up behind the center he is able to look at the defensive formation and make adjustments on the fly. Defenses are in a constant stuggle to match up with multiple receiver formations and running backs coming out of the backfield as a receiver. Hey, but don\'t take my word for it, just look at how much scoring has gone up in the last decade. Now, one would think if your theory was true that scoring would be going down and not up. I do understand your position, since the Bucs really have no offense, but facts do not bear out your theory !! CHU CHUMP !!
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209

08-08-2003, 10:52 AM	#15
coastalkid 100th Post Join Date: May 2003 Location: Spain Posts: 287	Reason for Collapse? Just any minute now I would expect to hear from BUCNUP??????????????????????????? BC you never learn to leave these guys alone. They bait you and you bite everytime. Very soon we\'ll all have to see that damn ring again just like Sapp\'s fat @#$ on batwood posts. I hate looking at either one of them.

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08-08-2003, 11:26 AM	#16
Batwood Registered Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 55	Reason for Collapse? Defenses are in a constant stuggle to match up with multiple receiver formations and running backs coming out of the backfield as a receiver. Hey, but don\'t take my word for it, just look at how much scoring has gone up in the last decade. Now, one would think if your theory was true that scoring would be going down and not up. I guess if you have a REAL defense (Tampa is #1 in the NFL since 1997 on fewest points allowed) you would know what I meant. Scoring did go down last year when teams played the Bucs (even your Saints scored less than thier average). FYI, The Bucs \"no offense\'s\" in the last 4 games of last year scored 121 points to it\'s opponants 30. How did your defense do in the last 4 games of last year? Did they improve? But I do understand your position, since the Saints really have no defense. BADA-BOOM!
Batwood Registered Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 55

08-08-2003, 11:34 AM	#17
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209	Reason for Collapse? Batwood, While I know I\'m banging my head against a brink wall here. I hardly think the Bucs defense matches up to some of the great NFL defenses of all time. Like the 85\' Bears, the LT-Giants defense, or our DOME PATROL defense of the New Orleans Saints. To say that scoring has not increased in the last decade is a totally false statement and if you wish to continue this debate, I would be more than happy, but if we\'re going to make this up as we go, it\'s really no fun.
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209

08-08-2003, 11:51 AM	#18
Batwood Registered Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 55	Reason for Collapse? Never stated that scoring has not increased in the last decade. Just said it hasn\'t against the Bucs since 1997. Stat wise, the Bucs defense of 2002 is closer to the 85 Bears than any other you listed, but that was pre-free agency and less impressive than the Bucs run of 6 years post-free-agency. If they repeat with consistant numbers like last year they will go down as the best ever in history considering they are doing it with 16 game schedules and during free agency era. That is what is driving the defense this year.
Batwood Registered Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 55	\"I don\'t think he has many tools on offense that he actually likes,\" says Randy Mueller, former Saints GM. Wait until he gets his own players. Watch out.\" http://i.tsn.com/i/o/books/covers/su...rbowlcover.gif

08-08-2003, 12:19 PM	#19
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209	Reason for Collapse? What you originally said was that offenses are easier to game plan for than defenses and I pointed out that scoring has gone up-which proves your theory wrong. Thanks for admitting I was right Botta Bing-Botta Boom-Botta-BAM....
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209

08-09-2003, 04:10 AM	#20
SaintNik 100th Post Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 312	Reason for Collapse? You have to realize now that teams playing the Saints will focus on stopping thier offense more now that the cats out of the bag so to speak. Game planning and mismatches will be key since teams will scrutinize film from last season and find ways to slow the Saints offense. _______________________________________________________________ Do you not think every defense focuses on stopping the opponents offense. More? Ability to stop the offense with personnel and schemes and a better knowledge of trends is usually best way to be more effective in stopping an offense. A bit of bad news here for you though buc. The Saints offense,as potent as it was last year, did not have the weapons it has this year (ie TE). Injuries late in the season had more to do with Saints december slide and lack of offensive production than how defenses prepared for it. Recall injuries to Brooks and Mcallister? quote _________________________________________________________________ The Rams had that same problem also. Offenses are easier to gameplan against then a defense because they are initiating the play and the defense is reacting to that play. This is going to be the Saints biggest challenge this season IMO. ______________________________________________________________ The Lams offense was slowed down more than anything by the injury bug as well as they have played stretches also without Warner and Faulk. Other teams defenses had more success against Rams offense post sb as defenses played their DBs closer to the line jamming the receivers and knocking them off of and out of their timing routes. Rams offense is designed to get ball out to open man on qucik reads. Warner lacks mobility and when timing of the offense is disrupted he has been sacked more often and had more picks thrown. Saints offense is similar in big strike ability, but takes deeper QB drops ( 7 & 5 Step drops instead of 5 and 3 step drops) allowing plays to develop further downfield. Also, AirRun Brooks has more movility in his lips than Warner has in his hips. quote _____________________________________________________________ If Haslett does not put some wrinkles and new looks in the offense, teams will exploit them and it will be a long year and December won\'t be your worry. [Edited on 7/8/2003 by Batwood] Our fans won\'t be worreid this year about September, October, November, or DECEMBER! Our concern will be ticket and travel arraingements in January and February. The Saints offense has not utilized the McCarthy playbook to its fullest due to lack of TE production, and the lack of experience with youth at all skill positions, Brooks now will have two and one-half years , McAllister and Stallworth each with one full year, experiece as starters. The offense has more depth and speed, and weapons this year than last. Brace yourself for what can\'t be stopped.
SaintNik 100th Post Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 312