Per Rotoworld/ Roy Williams

Tobias-Reiper · 01-14-2008, 12:35 PM

Originally Posted by papz

I bet this board would be a riot if we took a receiver with one of our first day picks. You know at the end of the game, the team with the most points win.

I understand what you are saying, but you can see it 2 ways:
The team with the most points at the end of the game had the most because either their offense scored more points than the other team, or their defense didn't allow the other team to score as much points... a couple defensive stops here and there, and not allowing so many 3rd and long conversions, and this season would've gone very differently.

procto · 01-19-2008, 08:55 AM

i may get the boot from this board for this but i think we should trade will smith. we could get roy williams (and maybe a pick). i realize he maybe our best defensive player but our defense is not good.

this is what we would have to build on for D.....harper, fujita, c grant. now we could let gibbs build his 3-4 OR we draft all db's and bank on having such a strong offense that teams will have to throw to stay in the games with us.

i understand that we have a pretty strong offense already but good defenses can hold us down. nobody can hold the patriots down so who cares how good their defense is. besides......if we were that good on offense i believe that our defense would rank 10 spots higher with the same personnel just b/c what is forces teams to do against u to keep up

i know it is just a dream but roy williams is our chance to become the most potent offense in the league! un-stop-able!!!!!!!

SaintFanInATLHELL · 01-19-2008, 04:17 PM

Originally Posted by procto

i may get the boot from this board for this but i think we should trade will smith. we could get roy williams (and maybe a pick). i realize he maybe our best defensive player but our defense is not good.

So why suggest it then? Frankly it makes no sense to me.

this is what we would have to build on for D.....harper, fujita, c grant. now we could let gibbs build his 3-4 OR we draft all db's and bank on having such a strong offense that teams will have to throw to stay in the games with us.

Good luck with that. No team that's been built on that philosophy has succeeded in winning the championship. Entertaining? Certainly. Championship. Not a chance.

i understand that we have a pretty strong offense already but good defenses can hold us down. nobody can hold the patriots down so who cares how good their defense is. besides......if we were that good on offense i believe that our defense would rank 10 spots higher with the same personnel just b/c what is forces teams to do against u to keep up

Because just like good pitching stops good hitting, good defenses in the NFL generally stop good offenses, especially in the playoffs.

The 2000 Baltimore Ravens and the 1985 Chicago Bears won championships with dominating defenses and really mediocre offenses. The opposite hasn't really been done ever. Last year the Colts defense in the regular season sucked rocks. However, in the playoffs, their defense became championship caliber.

Look at all the great offenses of the SB era. The Chargers in the 70's, the Colts of today, the Rams of the late 90's, and of course the 2007 Patriots. The teams that won championships had defenses capable of stopping other teams in their tracks. Remember that the Colts won a game against Baltimore in which no TDs were scored.

The bottom line is that thinking thematically about offense means that you're not interested in winning a championship.

And don't think that the Patriots of today are not in that category. Right now they are a top 5 defense in this league to go along with the #1 offense.

i know it is just a dream but roy williams is our chance to become the most potent offense in the league! un-stop-able!!!!!!!

And sitting at home watching the playoffs next year, once again.

I'm writing this presuming that you are in fact serious. If this is a joke post, then my apologies.

SFIAH

Tobias-Reiper · 01-19-2008, 05:44 PM

Originally Posted by procto

i may get the boot from this board for this but i think we should trade will smith. we could get roy williams (and maybe a pick). i realize he maybe our best defensive player but our defense is not good.

this is what we would have to build on for D.....harper, fujita, c grant. now we could let gibbs build his 3-4 OR we draft all db's and bank on having such a strong offense that teams will have to throw to stay in the games with us.

i understand that we have a pretty strong offense already but good defenses can hold us down. nobody can hold the patriots down so who cares how good their defense is. besides......if we were that good on offense i believe that our defense would rank 10 spots higher with the same personnel just b/c what is forces teams to do against u to keep up

i know it is just a dream but roy williams is our chance to become the most potent offense in the league! un-stop-able!!!!!!!

Well, who would want Will Smith? Really? he had a bad year last year. He got handled by all the LTs he faced one-on-one. He wasn't our best defensive player last year, that was Fujita.

And I would disagree that having a better offense would make tis defense rank any higher... not when your Achilles heel is the pass.

SaintFanInATLHELL · 01-21-2008, 11:40 AM

Originally Posted by Tobias-Reiper

Well, who would want Will Smith? Really? he had a bad year last year. He got handled by all the LTs he faced one-on-one. He wasn't our best defensive player last year, that was Fujita.

And I would disagree that having a better offense would make tis defense rank any higher... not when your Achilles heel is the pass.

The Saints have multiple Achilles heels on defense. They give up the big play. They can't consistently get to the QB. They can't get off the field on 3rd down. They don't generate turnovers.

In 2006 they couldn't stop the run. They were the #3 pass defense in the NFL.

In 2007 they stopped the run and gave up the pass.

The defense will not improve until they stop the run, the pass, and the big play consistently. And they need to generate turnovers.

SFIAH

hagan714 · 01-14-2008, 08:29 AM

I am with you paz. if WR is the BPA then so be it

Crusader · 01-14-2008, 03:00 PM

If we can take care of our big defensive needs in the FA sur why not. Othewise get young stay young.

WhoDatQB · 01-22-2008, 07:49 AM

Alright people look at it this way.

If we shore up some defensive areas in FA and we can get him for a 2nd NEXT year would be great. If not then I am worried about pending a first day draft pick on a player that is not as bad of a need as defensive players are. However there is no way to be sure that whoever we draft in the second round would even start.

We do not know what the FO is thinking, if Meachem is going to be good then we are fine and do not need Williams. With all the weapons we have Bush in the slot, Moore, Copper, both TE's I think the pick can be spent better elsewhere, unless we can do a lot in Free Agency.

Someone said we have a lack of depth at TE. Um, NO we do not. Eric Johnson and Billy MIller are both very, very good TE's. Not great mind you, but they are very good.

procto · 01-22-2008, 12:50 PM

its cool saintsfan.....no harsh feelings here

Boogro · 01-14-2008, 07:35 PM

I am with you Papz, on one hand you can get a Ryan and on the other you can get a Lehman....No one knows how it will work out. Last year we taded out of the second round to pick up either Young or Alleman, forget which but they didn't exactly come in right away and make a difference. I like them both for the long term, but we need help right away. Williams is still young, great in my opinion. He had Kitna throwing him the ball with one of the poorest lines in the league. Imagine if he played with Brees. A young reliable, fast wide receiver would be great for our team. To be honest, I don't see why teams don't trade more with picks for proven players who are just a few years in the league.

Free agency hasn't even started yet so I think this argument is a little premature.

01-19-2008, 08:55 AM	#2
procto Registered Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: bossier city Posts: 56	Re: Per Rotoworld/ Roy Williams i may get the boot from this board for this but i think we should trade will smith. we could get roy williams (and maybe a pick). i realize he maybe our best defensive player but our defense is not good. this is what we would have to build on for D.....harper, fujita, c grant. now we could let gibbs build his 3-4 OR we draft all db's and bank on having such a strong offense that teams will have to throw to stay in the games with us. i understand that we have a pretty strong offense already but good defenses can hold us down. nobody can hold the patriots down so who cares how good their defense is. besides......if we were that good on offense i believe that our defense would rank 10 spots higher with the same personnel just b/c what is forces teams to do against u to keep up i know it is just a dream but roy williams is our chance to become the most potent offense in the league! un-stop-able!!!!!!!

01-19-2008, 04:17 PM	#3
SaintFanInATLHELL The Professor Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Lithonia, GA Posts: 2,781	Re: Per Rotoworld/ Roy Williams Originally Posted by procto i may get the boot from this board for this but i think we should trade will smith. we could get roy williams (and maybe a pick). i realize he maybe our best defensive player but our defense is not good. So why suggest it then? Frankly it makes no sense to me. this is what we would have to build on for D.....harper, fujita, c grant. now we could let gibbs build his 3-4 OR we draft all db's and bank on having such a strong offense that teams will have to throw to stay in the games with us. Good luck with that. No team that's been built on that philosophy has succeeded in winning the championship. Entertaining? Certainly. Championship. Not a chance. i understand that we have a pretty strong offense already but good defenses can hold us down. nobody can hold the patriots down so who cares how good their defense is. besides......if we were that good on offense i believe that our defense would rank 10 spots higher with the same personnel just b/c what is forces teams to do against u to keep up Because just like good pitching stops good hitting, good defenses in the NFL generally stop good offenses, especially in the playoffs. The 2000 Baltimore Ravens and the 1985 Chicago Bears won championships with dominating defenses and really mediocre offenses. The opposite hasn't really been done ever. Last year the Colts defense in the regular season sucked rocks. However, in the playoffs, their defense became championship caliber. Look at all the great offenses of the SB era. The Chargers in the 70's, the Colts of today, the Rams of the late 90's, and of course the 2007 Patriots. The teams that won championships had defenses capable of stopping other teams in their tracks. Remember that the Colts won a game against Baltimore in which no TDs were scored. The bottom line is that thinking thematically about offense means that you're not interested in winning a championship. And don't think that the Patriots of today are not in that category. Right now they are a top 5 defense in this league to go along with the #1 offense. i know it is just a dream but roy williams is our chance to become the most potent offense in the league! un-stop-able!!!!!!! And sitting at home watching the playoffs next year, once again. I'm writing this presuming that you are in fact serious. If this is a joke post, then my apologies. SFIAH
	Super Bowl Championships: New Orleans Saints:1, Carolina:0, Atlanta Chokers: STILL ZERO Only Atlanta choked in an unchokable situation... Life is definitely good.

01-19-2008, 05:44 PM	#4
Tobias-Reiper Merces Letifer Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 4,161	Re: Per Rotoworld/ Roy Williams Originally Posted by procto i may get the boot from this board for this but i think we should trade will smith. we could get roy williams (and maybe a pick). i realize he maybe our best defensive player but our defense is not good. this is what we would have to build on for D.....harper, fujita, c grant. now we could let gibbs build his 3-4 OR we draft all db's and bank on having such a strong offense that teams will have to throw to stay in the games with us. i understand that we have a pretty strong offense already but good defenses can hold us down. nobody can hold the patriots down so who cares how good their defense is. besides......if we were that good on offense i believe that our defense would rank 10 spots higher with the same personnel just b/c what is forces teams to do against u to keep up i know it is just a dream but roy williams is our chance to become the most potent offense in the league! un-stop-able!!!!!!! Well, who would want Will Smith? Really? he had a bad year last year. He got handled by all the LTs he faced one-on-one. He wasn't our best defensive player last year, that was Fujita. And I would disagree that having a better offense would make tis defense rank any higher... not when your Achilles heel is the pass.

01-21-2008, 11:40 AM	#5
SaintFanInATLHELL The Professor Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Lithonia, GA Posts: 2,781	Re: Per Rotoworld/ Roy Williams Originally Posted by Tobias-Reiper Well, who would want Will Smith? Really? he had a bad year last year. He got handled by all the LTs he faced one-on-one. He wasn't our best defensive player last year, that was Fujita. And I would disagree that having a better offense would make tis defense rank any higher... not when your Achilles heel is the pass. The Saints have multiple Achilles heels on defense. They give up the big play. They can't consistently get to the QB. They can't get off the field on 3rd down. They don't generate turnovers. In 2006 they couldn't stop the run. They were the #3 pass defense in the NFL. In 2007 they stopped the run and gave up the pass. The defense will not improve until they stop the run, the pass, and the big play consistently. And they need to generate turnovers. SFIAH

01-14-2008, 08:29 AM	#6
hagan714 LB Mentallity Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 15,870 Blog Entries: 68	Re: Per Rotoworld/ Roy Williams I am with you paz. if WR is the BPA then so be it

01-14-2008, 12:35 PM	#1
Tobias-Reiper Merces Letifer Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 4,161	Re: Per Rotoworld/ Roy Williams Originally Posted by papz I bet this board would be a riot if we took a receiver with one of our first day picks. You know at the end of the game, the team with the most points win. I understand what you are saying, but you can see it 2 ways: The team with the most points at the end of the game had the most because either their offense scored more points than the other team, or their defense didn't allow the other team to score as much points... a couple defensive stops here and there, and not allowing so many 3rd and long conversions, and this season would've gone very differently.

01-14-2008, 03:00 PM	#7
Crusader Resident Swede Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Märsta, Sweden Posts: 8,030	Re: Per Rotoworld/ Roy Williams If we can take care of our big defensive needs in the FA sur why not. Othewise get young stay young.

01-22-2008, 07:49 AM	#8
WhoDatQB Boondock Saint Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: F***ing Atlanta Posts: 322	Re: Per Rotoworld/ Roy Williams Alright people look at it this way. If we shore up some defensive areas in FA and we can get him for a 2nd NEXT year would be great. If not then I am worried about pending a first day draft pick on a player that is not as bad of a need as defensive players are. However there is no way to be sure that whoever we draft in the second round would even start. We do not know what the FO is thinking, if Meachem is going to be good then we are fine and do not need Williams. With all the weapons we have Bush in the slot, Moore, Copper, both TE's I think the pick can be spent better elsewhere, unless we can do a lot in Free Agency. Someone said we have a lack of depth at TE. Um, NO we do not. Eric Johnson and Billy MIller are both very, very good TE's. Not great mind you, but they are very good.

01-22-2008, 12:50 PM	#9
procto Registered Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: bossier city Posts: 56	Re: Per Rotoworld/ Roy Williams its cool saintsfan.....no harsh feelings here

01-14-2008, 07:35 PM	#10
Boogro Nose Digger Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 341	Re: Per Rotoworld/ Roy Williams I am with you Papz, on one hand you can get a Ryan and on the other you can get a Lehman....No one knows how it will work out. Last year we taded out of the second round to pick up either Young or Alleman, forget which but they didn't exactly come in right away and make a difference. I like them both for the long term, but we need help right away. Williams is still young, great in my opinion. He had Kitna throwing him the ball with one of the poorest lines in the league. Imagine if he played with Brees. A young reliable, fast wide receiver would be great for our team. To be honest, I don't see why teams don't trade more with picks for proven players who are just a few years in the league. Free agency hasn't even started yet so I think this argument is a little premature.