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Re: my thoughts on Gary Gibbs

The retirement home for wayward defensive players in the NFL is New Orleans. A Youthful id coming both in the draft and FA under the age of 28. Has to.
Imagine if you can what would have happened if Bush was pick at #1 and Hawk came here. The accelerated building of the offense would not have happened. Gibbs could do nothing about that one. So now we have depth on OL that is good enough for us to develope picks. That is a big plus. RB in limbo, WR at #2 and 4 are in limbo as is TE.
So where else can we go? DEFENSE!!!! Gibbs time has arrived. Now lets see what he does with it.
David is going to be great at the nickle, just watch. He gets LB and S help there. I am waiting to see the secondary and LBer moves this year. Ilove defense. I am almost as giddy as a little school girl.

Re: my thoughts on Gary Gibbs

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Originally Posted by hagan714 (Post 153248)

The retirement home for wayward defensive players in the NFL is New Orleans. A Youthful id coming both in the draft and FA under the age of 28. Has to.

DING DING DING DING DING DING

WE HAVE A WINNER!!!!!!

Re: my thoughts on Gary Gibbs

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Originally Posted by dasaints26 (Post 153222)

Was just curious about how the DC affects our soft defense? Are there defensive coaches who tell their players go out and hit hard?

I'm not sure that's the definition of soft we're talking about. The Saints defense is soft in terms of allowing the offense to dictate what goes on the field instead of the other way around. Not a lot of QB pressure, not being physical with receivers and backs on the line of scrimmage, stuff like that.

So it's not necessarily that the players are soft, but that the scheme that they are playing in is soft.

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Then if you have a bad defense it is the coaches fault for telling his players go out there and try not to get anybody hurt. Did he tell his players lets make some stops but I dont want anybody hitting to hard?

Again. I don't think that's what is meant by soft. The Saints needs to put players in positions so that they can be physical. And a lot of times, their scheme is the opposite of that.

SFIAH

Re: my thoughts on Gary Gibbs

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Originally Posted by saintsmissile (Post 153158)

Yeah, yeah. I heard the EXACT same thing with Venturi. "Oh, he just doesn't have enough talent. Oh, he just hasn't got the tools to work with." Excuses are like a holes, everyone has one. Fact is, if it looks like poop and smells like poop, chances are it's POOP! I've seen enough of Gibbs' defenses to know we coach and play SOFT! Pure and simple.

AMEN Brother!!!!!!!

Re: my thoughts on Gary Gibbs

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Originally Posted by saintsmissile (Post 153158)

name the Saints' starters on defense that would start elsewhere in the league

Re: my thoughts on Gary Gibbs

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Originally Posted by saintsmissile (Post 153304)

Uh, and who ultimately is responsible for that? Did you happen to see that pathetic draft we had last year? That not enough? Okay, how about Kaesvaharn ACTUALLY getting some playing time and producing. So what happens, you ask? Bullocks gets healthy and goes back to starting and low and behold, the same crappy results. That's just one instance. Come on guys. Fact be told, you have to eventually coach what you have and from what I see, he's underachieving. Matter of fact, you can say that about the offense as well. Where was Pierre Thomas (Who Pappy, the fans were screaming for all year since Deuce went down) most of the year? Who knows? Coaches are there to make decisions. Unfortunately, we made bad ones most of the year. At least when it came to personnel. Started with FA and ended with one of the worst drafts in Saints history. Yeah yeah, go ahead and say, "how can you say it's a bad draft after only one season". I can say it easily. THE NEW YORK GIANTS! Go check out their draft and look at the rookies that played MAJOR contributions. If I'm not mistaken, the Giants were a playoff team a year ago and YET still found some places for these young guys ala Ahmad Bradshaw, Ross, Steve Smith etc to make contributions. All signs point to...... one of the worst drafts in Saints history.

blah blah blah. When Gibbs starts having authority on who they draft, that will mean something. You haven't answered my question. It's simple: how many starters on last year's Saints' defense would be starting elsewhere?

Re: my thoughts on Gary Gibbs

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Originally Posted by saintsmissile (Post 153309)

Okay, other than Will Smith, I would say, nah, that's about it. If you base it on Charles Grant's season last year, I would say Smith is the only sure thing.

OK, stop right there. According to you, the Saints have only one or two starters on defense that would start somewhere else. I think they have two more with McKenzie and Fujita, although Fujita could be argued. So, the Saints' starting defense consists of four starters and seven backups, and yet you can automatically pin the defensive problems on the coordinator and not personnel.

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However, have you ever heard from a player, "hey, it was easy, the coaches put us in the position to make plays"? I sure have.

It's one thing for the coaches to put players in the position to make plays. It's another for the players to actually make the plays once in position. The coaches can't execute for the players as well, and there were MANY instances of the defensive players being in position and not executing.

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Let me also ask you this, at the beginning of this season, would you say that other than Strahan and Usimoura (sp?) that the Giants were LOADED with players that would start for other teams? Yeah right, see what I mean. Corey Webster was nothing to write home about. Sam Madison was all but given up for dead. They have a pretty decent S, can't remember his name, but he's steady. Not Ronnie Lott or anything. The Giant LB's weren't anything to write home about. Just saying here, granted we aren't loaded with pro bowl talent, but it is my opinion that Gibbs does NOT get the most out of what he has.

Yes, I would say that the Giants had plenty of guys on defense that would have started for other teams at the beginning of the season. One team that most would have started for sure went to the NFC Championship game last year.

You stated that Smith and Grant were the only two legit starters on the Saints, and also stated that Gibbs does not get the most out of what he has. Gibbs took this same defense personnel-wise and made them the 11th best defensive team in the NFL in 2006. How is that not getting the most out of what he has. He takes nine backups and turns them into one of the better defenses in the league. He loses his starting DT, starts basically a rookie at Safety in Harper, and has one of his two legit starters slowed all year long by injury (Grant), and the second best CB on the team is (gulp) Jason David, and you blame the scheme? Come on.

You and I both know the Saints don't need "Ronnie Lott-type" players at every position in order to be successful, but you can't crucify a coach that doesn't control the personnel he has to work with, and expect him to have a top-5 defense with only two legit NFL starters.

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Granted, I don't think we had too much, but when you have guys like Kaesvaharn on the bench and not playing, something is wrong. Hell, Kaesvaharn said it best, "If the Saints had told me they were bringing me in here to play nickle, I wouldn't have signed here". Nuff said.

I, like you, questioned why they didn't play Kaesvaharn as well, particularly after he showed effectiveness towards the end of the season. But the questions have to start at the top with Payton, not with Gibbs. Don't think for one second Payton is not calling any of the shots on defense personnel-wise just because he's an offensive-minded guy.

Look, I'm not ready to crown Gibbs the next Buddy Ryan, not by a long shot, and I'll be the first one to call for Gibbs' head if they upgrade the talent on defense, and they are still ranked in the high 20's on defense. But before we lump him in with Venturi, let's see if this franchise can figure out how to draft legit NFL defensive starters.