Solving the mystery

buda · 08-12-2003, 11:37 AM

Folks, I harped on this at the end of last year and no one seemed to catch on. I really need all of your help to get this ball rolling. No kidding, I have solved the mystery of our breakdown late last year - and unfortunately it looks like we're in for it again this year. Here goes:

Watch our defensive front. I watched the first 15 pass plays last night and it was just like the end of last year. 14 out of 15 times, we lined up the same 4 guys, gave no look of blitz, and rushed all four straight up the field. Those 14 times, the Philly QBs completed 11 passes. All were easy completions. The QB (either McNabb or Detmer) was able to calmly examine the field and plant his feet. We never even got close to him. The one time we brought an LB on a blitz, we made Detmer throw it into the ground.

Think about this: ANY QB in the NFL will shred you if he has no fear of being sacked. We never even hurried them. Also, many folks say our D-Line just isn't beating anybody one-on-one and our DB's aren't covering. But no one can beat an offensive lineman when the O lineman knows exactly what he's going to do every time (straight bull rush). And no DB can cover someone for 2-3 seconds when a QB can just stand there and look until the guy comes open a bit. It's not the players on defense - it's the scheme!!! Or lack of one.

This is the answer to the big what went wrong msytery. Late last year we stop putting ANY pressure on QBs and they killed us. That of course makes the running game more success ful as well.

And so far we're doing the same this year. And it's not just a first game of pre-season thing. I watched Philly in thier first game as well. On our first seven pass plays, they blitzed twice, showed blitz once, and stunted once. They only bull rushed three times and their players seemed to get a jump on our line when they did (maybe because our O line didn't know what to expect). Also all other teams I've watched so far this year mixed it up as well. We are the ONLY team who doesn't!!! O lines need to be confused. D lines need to move around, show blitz and pull off, run switches, and slants and stunts. It gives the D-Line guys just the small advantage they need to beat a guy once in a while!!!!!

I can't understand why other people do not see this, but I'd love to start people talking about it. Maybe it'll get back to Haslett and Venturi who will look into changing it. If enough fans talk about it enough, maybe we can have an effect. Pass on the good word. Maybe we can solve the mystery.

Buda Mon

lumm0x · 08-12-2003, 04:59 PM

The fact that Philly put more stunting into the first 15 defensive series means nothing. The Saints coaching staff likely said straight ahead rush just to evaluate who could beat one on one matchups in a regular pass rush scenario. They probably told the D-line to execute their variuos rush moves. That Philly used more scheming just shows their comfort within their own defense already.

Last year, I\'ll agree, our lack of pass rush helped attribute to the collapse, but you can\'t blitz if you are afraid to leave a safety or linebacker in man on a reciever. We had little faith in our secondary and the coverage ability of our linebackers and we were doomed either way. That we didn\'t blitz last night did not scare me. That we didn\'t win any one on one matchups did.

buda · 08-12-2003, 05:32 PM

I\'d agree with you except I think it\'s clear from last year that Venturi doesn\'t belive in blitzing. Also lokk at EVERY other team. they all are working on all of their defensive sets, both in practice and in the first game or two. You can\'t tell me we\'ve worked on blitz/stunt packages all camp long and just didn\'t show them in this game. We just don\'t have many and don\'t like to use the few we have. That\'s the current philosophy - and I think it\'s a bad one. Footbal today is about pressure on the QB. Look at ALL the playoff teams last year. All had great pass rushes. Tamp won it all and their specialty is pass rush. Philly had the next best pass rush and played in the NFC Championship game, etc, etc.

It\'s a philosophy thing. I hoped after last year that it was just a personnel thing - that we just didn\'t do it because we thought our personnel couldn\'t. So now we have SPEED and so far we look exactly the same.

Scares me.

If they don\'t show some creativity on Defense soon, I\'m going to start the debate on keeping/losing Venturi.

Buda

saintsfan200 · 08-12-2003, 05:37 PM

As far as the philly game goes you have to remember.
No. 1 this is the first preseason game-their was some rust to be expected.
No. 2 the defense scheme was VERY vanilla.
No. 3 Howard and Ford didn\'t play.

JOESAM2002 · 08-12-2003, 05:54 PM

Whoa, there big boy.......just like most of you guys I wasn\'t impressed with last nights game. However I think it\'s a little to early to throw out the season. Everyone talks about how bad the defense looked last night and that is true. They did look terrible. No there were no blitzes or stunts or exotic defensive plays but isn\'t it hard to put in a defense when you still don\'t know who is going to be playing? I too am not a big fan of Venturi as d.c. but like someone else said, I think it\'s a little late to worry about that for this year. The thing that scares the hell out of me is the tackling. Geezzzz, Sister Mary\'s School for the Blind could do that good. That was a pitiful example of tackling.

I\'m going to give the coaching staff the benifit of the doubt for now, but if they look like they did against the Eagles againts the Jets, it\'s going to be a long season.

lumm0x · 08-12-2003, 05:57 PM

Buda I will be holding the reins on the \"dump Venturi\" band wagon. I have disliked the guy for a few years, not as a person, but as a skilled coach of any degree. Last nights performance is no reflection on him however. I\'ll agree we don\'y blitz much as a unit in his scheme and that bothers me. I too like an agressive, tone setting defense that forces the offense, not reacts to plays. Last night was a pure example of looking at what his individual players can do one on one against an offense. It scares me more right now that we lost every individual matchup. With the athleticism and talented individuals we have, you\'d think one of our DL would still be able to beat a lineman 1 on 1. You\'d think one of our LBers could pick a hole and drive into the backfield for a loss, recognize a play developing and break up such plays. None of that happened last night. Every defensive player looked flat. These guys have been tackling since grade school and to look this weak was scary. My only hope is that the players can look in the mirror and solidify the fundamental parts of the game. I will not be impressed with our defensive scheme under Venturi and I accept that. I can\'t accept that our players are not competetive individually.

saintfan · 08-12-2003, 05:59 PM

Geezzzz, Sister Mary\'s School for the Blind could do that good. That was a pitiful example of tackling.

Now that was damn funny.

08-12-2003, 11:37 AM	#1
buda Rookie Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 6	Solving the mystery Folks, I harped on this at the end of last year and no one seemed to catch on. I really need all of your help to get this ball rolling. No kidding, I have solved the mystery of our breakdown late last year - and unfortunately it looks like we're in for it again this year. Here goes: Watch our defensive front. I watched the first 15 pass plays last night and it was just like the end of last year. 14 out of 15 times, we lined up the same 4 guys, gave no look of blitz, and rushed all four straight up the field. Those 14 times, the Philly QBs completed 11 passes. All were easy completions. The QB (either McNabb or Detmer) was able to calmly examine the field and plant his feet. We never even got close to him. The one time we brought an LB on a blitz, we made Detmer throw it into the ground. Think about this: ANY QB in the NFL will shred you if he has no fear of being sacked. We never even hurried them. Also, many folks say our D-Line just isn't beating anybody one-on-one and our DB's aren't covering. But no one can beat an offensive lineman when the O lineman knows exactly what he's going to do every time (straight bull rush). And no DB can cover someone for 2-3 seconds when a QB can just stand there and look until the guy comes open a bit. It's not the players on defense - it's the scheme!!! Or lack of one. This is the answer to the big what went wrong msytery. Late last year we stop putting ANY pressure on QBs and they killed us. That of course makes the running game more success ful as well. And so far we're doing the same this year. And it's not just a first game of pre-season thing. I watched Philly in thier first game as well. On our first seven pass plays, they blitzed twice, showed blitz once, and stunted once. They only bull rushed three times and their players seemed to get a jump on our line when they did (maybe because our O line didn't know what to expect). Also all other teams I've watched so far this year mixed it up as well. We are the ONLY team who doesn't!!! O lines need to be confused. D lines need to move around, show blitz and pull off, run switches, and slants and stunts. It gives the D-Line guys just the small advantage they need to beat a guy once in a while!!!!! I can't understand why other people do not see this, but I'd love to start people talking about it. Maybe it'll get back to Haslett and Venturi who will look into changing it. If enough fans talk about it enough, maybe we can have an effect. Pass on the good word. Maybe we can solve the mystery. Buda Mon
buda Rookie Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 6

08-12-2003, 04:59 PM	#2
lumm0x Resident antediluvian Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 2,026	Solving the mystery The fact that Philly put more stunting into the first 15 defensive series means nothing. The Saints coaching staff likely said straight ahead rush just to evaluate who could beat one on one matchups in a regular pass rush scenario. They probably told the D-line to execute their variuos rush moves. That Philly used more scheming just shows their comfort within their own defense already. Last year, I\'ll agree, our lack of pass rush helped attribute to the collapse, but you can\'t blitz if you are afraid to leave a safety or linebacker in man on a reciever. We had little faith in our secondary and the coverage ability of our linebackers and we were doomed either way. That we didn\'t blitz last night did not scare me. That we didn\'t win any one on one matchups did.

08-12-2003, 05:32 PM	#3
buda Rookie Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 6	Solving the mystery I\'d agree with you except I think it\'s clear from last year that Venturi doesn\'t belive in blitzing. Also lokk at EVERY other team. they all are working on all of their defensive sets, both in practice and in the first game or two. You can\'t tell me we\'ve worked on blitz/stunt packages all camp long and just didn\'t show them in this game. We just don\'t have many and don\'t like to use the few we have. That\'s the current philosophy - and I think it\'s a bad one. Footbal today is about pressure on the QB. Look at ALL the playoff teams last year. All had great pass rushes. Tamp won it all and their specialty is pass rush. Philly had the next best pass rush and played in the NFC Championship game, etc, etc. It\'s a philosophy thing. I hoped after last year that it was just a personnel thing - that we just didn\'t do it because we thought our personnel couldn\'t. So now we have SPEED and so far we look exactly the same. Scares me. If they don\'t show some creativity on Defense soon, I\'m going to start the debate on keeping/losing Venturi. Buda
buda Rookie Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 6

08-12-2003, 05:37 PM	#4
saintsfan200 Registered Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 67	Solving the mystery As far as the philly game goes you have to remember. No. 1 this is the first preseason game-their was some rust to be expected. No. 2 the defense scheme was VERY vanilla. No. 3 Howard and Ford didn\'t play.
saintsfan200 Registered Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 67

08-12-2003, 05:54 PM	#5
JOESAM2002 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: CRYSTAL BEACH TEXAS Posts: 4,100	Solving the mystery Whoa, there big boy.......just like most of you guys I wasn\'t impressed with last nights game. However I think it\'s a little to early to throw out the season. Everyone talks about how bad the defense looked last night and that is true. They did look terrible. No there were no blitzes or stunts or exotic defensive plays but isn\'t it hard to put in a defense when you still don\'t know who is going to be playing? I too am not a big fan of Venturi as d.c. but like someone else said, I think it\'s a little late to worry about that for this year. The thing that scares the hell out of me is the tackling. Geezzzz, Sister Mary\'s School for the Blind could do that good. That was a pitiful example of tackling. I\'m going to give the coaching staff the benifit of the doubt for now, but if they look like they did against the Eagles againts the Jets, it\'s going to be a long season.
	Sometimes it's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought an idiot, than to open it and remove all doubt!!!!! "Every time you think, you weaken the nation!" Moe Howard...The Three Stooges.

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08-12-2003, 05:57 PM	#6
lumm0x Resident antediluvian Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 2,026	Solving the mystery Buda I will be holding the reins on the \"dump Venturi\" band wagon. I have disliked the guy for a few years, not as a person, but as a skilled coach of any degree. Last nights performance is no reflection on him however. I\'ll agree we don\'y blitz much as a unit in his scheme and that bothers me. I too like an agressive, tone setting defense that forces the offense, not reacts to plays. Last night was a pure example of looking at what his individual players can do one on one against an offense. It scares me more right now that we lost every individual matchup. With the athleticism and talented individuals we have, you\'d think one of our DL would still be able to beat a lineman 1 on 1. You\'d think one of our LBers could pick a hole and drive into the backfield for a loss, recognize a play developing and break up such plays. None of that happened last night. Every defensive player looked flat. These guys have been tackling since grade school and to look this weak was scary. My only hope is that the players can look in the mirror and solidify the fundamental parts of the game. I will not be impressed with our defensive scheme under Venturi and I accept that. I can\'t accept that our players are not competetive individually.

08-12-2003, 05:59 PM	#7
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	Solving the mystery Geezzzz, Sister Mary\'s School for the Blind could do that good. That was a pitiful example of tackling. Now that was damn funny.