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-   -   Kirwin's 1st Mock Draft (https://blackandgold.com/saints/20436-kirwins-1st-mock-draft.html)

QBREES9 03-24-2008 08:31 PM
Kirwin's 1st Mock Draft
 
Mock draft: Deals could shape opening round

I like it.

ScottF 03-24-2008 08:35 PM
Re: Kirwin's 1st Mock Draft
 
Me too.

Wonder if NE will take Tebucky and Big Play Ray back as part of the swap?

Kirwin has Rivers dropping to 29...

QBREES9 03-24-2008 08:39 PM
Re: Kirwin's 1st Mock Draft
 
AAAAAAAAAAAAA Tebucky Hard Hit New Britian Ct. I just just hang my in shame. LOL

jergensl 03-24-2008 08:43 PM
Re: Kirwin's 1st Mock Draft
 
NO THANKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

why trade up for a position that is not a major need, when you could stay put and get the highest rated player at a position that IS a major need?????

gptsaintsfan 03-24-2008 09:59 PM
Re: Kirwin's 1st Mock Draft
 
If this scenario presents itself...i guess you have to ask yourself one question...do you feel lucky....nah...who can have a greater impact on this defense Ellis or Rivers...if your answer is ellis it's a no-brainer trade up...but if it's rivers or if you perceive them as equal value...stay at 10...i think that orgeron will have an input on this 1st pick if this scenario plays out...and then we will know who the defensive coaches perceive to be a better playmaker between these two players

Euphoria 03-24-2008 10:13 PM
Re: Kirwin's 1st Mock Draft
 
Ya know I have been thinking NE trading with us is not going to happen with both teams going for the same players. But looking at this draft it makes VERY good sense. Us getting a CB make no sense with the bodies and money we have tied up at that position so for get it. If you can't see that we can't get to the QB... well I will stop there.
The only think I didn't like by this mock is that Dorsey going to the Birds. I almost became ill seeing that. I wish there was something we can do to prevent that from happening but looks like it could be a reality we will have to face TWICE a year. UGH.

foreverfan 03-24-2008 10:55 PM
Re: Kirwin's 1st Mock Draft
 
PAC 10 talent. There I said it.

dasaints26 03-25-2008 12:54 AM
Re: Kirwin's 1st Mock Draft
 
USC will have 2 players drafted in the top 10. Ellis goes top 5 and there is no way Rivers gets past #10. The Saints hopefully wont pass on another option to improve the LB position. I'm pretty sure they realize it will soon be a position of need not just adding depth. Vilma hopefully will be around awhile but I dont think they will sign Simmenau(?) or Morgan to any long term contracts. Does have the potential to be a solid LB unit.
Probowls, Probowls, did somebody say Probowls??
What is the concept? Average fans watch every game, every week and vote on who the best player at each position is? I might watch 4 or 5 games a week but I dont have the time to watch 16 games a week. Me I'm just a homer and vote for the Saints I dont fall for that name recognition and assume they are the best at their position.

saintsfan1976 03-25-2008 07:16 AM
Re: Kirwin's 1st Mock Draft
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by saintsmissile (Post 159272)
Someone do some research on all the SC guys that have been drafted in the last say, 5 years and detail how many of them are starters and how many probowls have they gone to.
Like you don't have those stats under your pillow... lol

hagan714 03-25-2008 07:16 AM
Re: Kirwin's 1st Mock Draft
 
Sorry I am not crazy about the top 10 talent

TheDeuce 03-25-2008 09:43 AM
Re: Kirwin's 1st Mock Draft
 
I like that idea, securing a playmaker at a position of need. Jergensl, I'm not really sure why you wouldn't call DT a position of need, but it is. Our DTs are mediocre at best and could use a young playmaker in the middle. Imagine how much that would help Vilma.

TheDeuce 03-25-2008 10:03 AM
Re: Kirwin's 1st Mock Draft
 
Or imagine how a guy like Ellis would help our CBs.... it's a vicious circle.

Euphoria 03-25-2008 11:26 AM
Re: Kirwin's 1st Mock Draft
 
A DT who could draw double teams and add pressure on the QB is the NUMBER 1 NEED for this team. CB we have enough and money tied up at that position. If we don't generate pressure on the QB, The QB's will have all day to throw on our CB's I don't care who you are this day in age you give a QB/WR enough time the WR will get open eventually. Our DT are sit back DT and tackle the ball carrier when they come to them they aren't pass rushers.

The front 7 has to be address and they are doing that. One more position to address is DT.

At this point I would draft any other position other than CB.

Euphoria 03-25-2008 11:59 AM
Re: Kirwin's 1st Mock Draft
 
Yeah and you going to take out insurance in case the CB's don't pan out??? So we can collect something if not wins.

If you don't get pressure on the QB your CB's won't make the Pro Bowl either.

MM posted solid numbers and respected as a CB his biggest knock for not making the Pro Bowl... NOT HAVING HELP UP FRONT. He would look even better with someone helping him out... PRESSURE.

TheDeuce 03-25-2008 12:47 PM
Re: Kirwin's 1st Mock Draft
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Euphoria (Post 159357)
A DT who could draw double teams and add pressure on the QB is the NUMBER 1 NEED for this team. CB we have enough and money tied up at that position. If we don't generate pressure on the QB, The QB's will have all day to throw on our CB's I don't care who you are this day in age you give a QB/WR enough time the WR will get open eventually. Our DT are sit back DT and tackle the ball carrier when they come to them they aren't pass rushers.

The front 7 has to be address and they are doing that. One more position to address is DT.

At this point I would draft any other position other than CB.
Well that seems a little irrational euph. I understand that you want a DT, and that's what I want the most too, but if we don't get a DT, the simple fact of the matter is that we also need a cornerback. While a pass rush might help, you also have to have decent CBs. They complement each other, it's not one or the other.

Euphoria 03-25-2008 01:06 PM
Re: Kirwin's 1st Mock Draft
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDeuce (Post 159383)
Well that seems a little irrational euph. I understand that you want a DT, and that's what I want the most too, but if we don't get a DT, the simple fact of the matter is that we also need a cornerback. While a pass rush might help, you also have to have decent CBs. They complement each other, it's not one or the other.
OH PLEASE I am not sold on a DT. I am saying if we can get Ellis or Dorsey we do it... but there are more concerning areas than just CB. I'd be ok with a LB. I'd be ok with other areas as well. CB's. To much money and bodies at that position and that my friend is very rational.

TheDeuce 03-25-2008 01:13 PM
Re: Kirwin's 1st Mock Draft
 
It's not about quantity Euph, it's about quality. We might have a bunch of bodies at CB (even though I don't think we have that many), but we don't have anybody who would receive a starter's grade. We need a solid CB, that's a fact. David, Gay, and McKenzie are making good money, not great, but good. The other CBs are making minimal money. So what's the problem? We can afford another CB, and we need one, too.

If you think we need another DE we don't, because we've already got three with very big contracts, and several other guys making minimal money.

And yes, I'd be ok with a linebacker too, but what I'm saying is that it's not crazy to think that we need another CB.

Euphoria 03-25-2008 01:15 PM
Re: Kirwin's 1st Mock Draft
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDeuce (Post 159392)
It's not about quantity Euph, it's about quality. We might have a bunch of bodies at CB (even though I don't think we have that many), but we don't have anybody who would receive a starter's grade. We need a solid CB, that's a fact. David, Gay, and McKenzie are making good money, not great, but good. The other CBs are making minimal money. So what's the problem? We can afford another CB, and we need one, too.

If you think we need another DE we don't, because we've already got three with very big contracts, and several other guys making minimal money.

And yes, I'd be ok with a linebacker too, but what I'm saying is that it's not crazy to think that we need another CB.
Hey thats great if you want to be 7-9 this year.

TheDeuce 03-25-2008 01:24 PM
Re: Kirwin's 1st Mock Draft
 
Where did I say I wanted to be 7-9? And what about what I said would make us go 7-9? Taking a CB who has pick #10 value would make us lose? How is that?

Euphoria 03-25-2008 03:19 PM
Re: Kirwin's 1st Mock Draft
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by saintsmissile (Post 159419)
Man oh man. Last time we used your rational Euph we drafted J.Sullivan instead of a guy named Marcus Trufant. Nuff said.
Rational? With that rational why even draft... history dictates we aren't a winning ball club anyways so why even bother play the game. Come 'on got something better than that.

What does that have to do with anything? Under differnt Coaching staff... different scouting... with that said whats the point of even drafting anyone because we never win anyways.

rjakapeanut 03-25-2008 03:19 PM
Re: Kirwin's 1st Mock Draft
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Euphoria (Post 159256)
Ya know I have been thinking NE trading with us is not going to happen with both teams going for the same players. But looking at this draft it makes VERY good sense. Us getting a CB make no sense with the bodies and money we have tied up at that position so for get it. If you can't see that we can't get to the QB... well I will stop there.
The only think I didn't like by this mock is that Dorsey going to the Birds. I almost became ill seeing that. I wish there was something we can do to prevent that from happening but looks like it could be a reality we will have to face TWICE a year. UGH.
but we're nto going for the same players, lmao. we're going for mckelvin, DRC, ellis and rivers. they're going for mckelvin, possibly DRC, and golston.

rjakapeanut 03-25-2008 03:21 PM
Re: Kirwin's 1st Mock Draft
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by saintsmissile (Post 159272)
Good, now, take all that Pac 1O talent that USC has been lucky enough to play every year and now, relate that to NFL talent. Ala, Leinart, M.Williams, M.Patterson, F.Rucker, Lendale White, the C Kalil, and yes, Reggie Bush. Okay, I'll give you Tatupu, but look at your odds. The USC boys really haven't made too much of an inpact have they? Someone do some research on all the SC guys that have been drafted in the last say, 5 years and detail how many of them are starters and how many probowls have they gone to.
what about Polamalu? the defense players from USC have been great besides it doesn't matter, just because they go to the same school doesn't mean they're cursed.

Euphoria 03-25-2008 03:22 PM
Re: Kirwin's 1st Mock Draft
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by saintsmissile (Post 159420)
Starting DT's in this past Pro Bowl:

DT: Kevin Williams, Pat Williams
A. Haynesworth, Vince Wilfork

Now, how many were top 10 draft picks?
If getting to the Pro Bowl is your foucus by all means do what ya want but we are talking about what we need to win.... PRESSURE. Again JD isn't a pro bowl CB yet he's got a ring.

Take it away... go ahead... YOU CAN'T.

rjakapeanut 03-25-2008 03:24 PM
Re: Kirwin's 1st Mock Draft
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Euphoria (Post 159426)
If getting to the Pro Bowl is your foucus by all means do what ya want but we are talking about what we need to win.... PRESSURE. Again JD isn't a pro bowl CB yet he's got a ring.

Take it away... go ahead... YOU CAN'T.
I don't even know what to say to this. You would probably score a 4 on the Wonderlic.

LOL.

Euphoria 03-25-2008 03:28 PM
Re: Kirwin's 1st Mock Draft
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rjakapeanut (Post 159429)
I don't even know what to say to this. You would probably score a 4 on the Wonderlic.

LOL.
I don't find this funny... and be careful about making things personal around here... thats all I am going to say.

You still can't take that ring from him.

dasaints26 03-25-2008 04:05 PM
Re: Kirwin's 1st Mock Draft
 
Football remains a team sport. It is probably better to have average talent across the board than have exceptional talent in one area combined with poor talent in another area.
Say we have great players on the d-line but poor coverage players. That pressure is little help with wr screens or quick slants. Some of those 300 long pass plays last year started out on 5yd slants. What if our cbs break off of coverage because they thought the qb winked at them the d-line pressure wont help if the qb just has to lob the ball in the wr general area.
And no matter how great the shut-down corners are after 10 seconds someone is going to get open. In this team sport the players have to work together and help each other out.
Everyone has an opinion on what is the biggest need for this team. As that old saying goes 'Opinions are like...' well I forgot how that saying goes I only scored a 4 on my Wonderlick.
Opposing teams will discover the weakness in a defense and try to take advantage of it. Last year it was clearly JD and hopefully all the on-the-job-training will improve his play. With a little better safety help teams should have a harder time completing 80yd pass plays against us next year.
Faine is now the highest paid center and there is no way you can take that away from him.

Euphoria 03-25-2008 05:01 PM
Re: Kirwin's 1st Mock Draft
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasaints26 (Post 159448)
Football remains a team sport. It is probably better to have average talent across the board than have exceptional talent in one area combined with poor talent in another area.
Say we have great players on the d-line but poor coverage players. That pressure is little help with wr screens or quick slants. Some of those 300 long pass plays last year started out on 5yd slants. What if our cbs break off of coverage because they thought the qb winked at them the d-line pressure wont help if the qb just has to lob the ball in the wr general area.
And no matter how great the shut-down corners are after 10 seconds someone is going to get open. In this team sport the players have to work together and help each other out.
Everyone has an opinion on what is the biggest need for this team. As that old saying goes 'Opinions are like...' well I forgot how that saying goes I only scored a 4 on my Wonderlick.
Opposing teams will discover the weakness in a defense and try to take advantage of it. Last year it was clearly JD and hopefully all the on-the-job-training will improve his play. With a little better safety help teams should have a harder time completing 80yd pass plays against us next year.
Faine is now the highest paid center and there is no way you can take that away from him.
Ahh yes get some pressure. The cure-all for any D... ask the Defending Super Bowl Champs the Giants for shutting down one of the better offenses in league history.

Yes you can take Faine's money from him... taxes, fines ect. Bucs can keep him. It'll only make our D look better.
But you can't take a Super Bowl ring from anyone, well unless you're OJ right. LOL. But you're still on that championship roster and it won't be long until a Center is making more money with inflation ect so you can still take that away. We could also sue him for being a fraud -impersonating a Professional Football Center.

Rsanders24 03-25-2008 05:41 PM
Re: Kirwin's 1st Mock Draft
 
I know that I probably will get ripped for saying this but something about Ellis reeks average at best. The only DT that stands out to me is Dorsey and if we can't get him then I say wait until a later round. What would that cost us anyway considering we don't have a fourth round pick. I say let stay put and take the BPA.

hagan714 03-25-2008 07:42 PM
Re: Kirwin's 1st Mock Draft
 
Rsanders24 you wont get ripped for the best player available but you will need to a little more civil though. Do not get Euphoria started.


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