saints eyeing vernon?

thesaintsfan · 03-30-2008, 06:21 AM

Originally Posted by pakowitz

i think gholston is high on their board but they are showing less interest in a hope to trade down and pick him up l8r.. miami runs the 3-4 and since the next few teams dont, i doubt stl, atl, oak, or KC is gonna want him.. so maybe try to trade with KC.. KC takes jake long and then miami selects gholston at 5.. right ahead of the jets who are the 2nd team that runs a 3-4

That was a great point pakowitz. As a matter of fact I think that's exactly what's going on. It make sense because you know how much Parcells loves his LBs. Parcells knows that for his defense to excel he needs a rush from the edge. The man who drafted LT, Demarcus Ware and John Abraham knows a thing or two about DE/OLB tweeners and if Gholston's got the goods you can bet your behind that Parcells will try to get him. That makes so much since now that Miami hasn't brought him in for a private workout. You might've nailed this one becaus you know KC wants Jake Long! They need alot of help on the line and if they aren't sold on Clady or Otah they will try to go up for Long.

thesaintsfan · 03-30-2008, 06:44 AM

Originally Posted by beauchristopher

I know I will get ripped to shreds, but my gut says Ellis is a better fit for New Orleans defense than Dorsey. It's nothing to do about injuries. It's just a gut feeling.. My own opinion.. just like you all have your own feelings..
Gholston will be gone in the first 5 picks. I AM SHOCKED miami is not atleast in more contact.. i think everyone in the top 5 wants to trade down but can't.. not many teams are interested in trading up this year. not even dallas is interested in gettin into the top 5.. maybe top 10..

I'm not going to rip you to shreds and I repsect your opinion even though it's wrong. You are right to be high on Ellis. Most years he'd be the hands down #1 DT, most years. But this isn't a normal year because the best DT prospect since Warren Sapp just happens to be in the same class. Glen Dorsey is in a class by himself. I watched him week after week and this dude is the most disputive DT I have ever seen. Very few DTs can take over a game like he does. Usually only the elite pass rushing DEs and LBs can take over a game. People say "well to be so dominate he never put up jaw dropping stats". To them I say this, watch the guy on tape and you'll see that he was doubled team alot leaving the DEs and LBs to run down plays untouched. He runs down the running back better than any DT I've ever seen at that level. Teams would run away from him and he and he would get through traffic better than some LBs. And oh yeah, the guy was doing all that after a coward tried to put him out of football with a brutal chop. The guy is special and he is the best fit for our defense out of all the players in this draft.

gandhi1007 · 03-30-2008, 10:22 AM

1st off....GLEN DORSEY IS THE BEST DT PROSPECT TO COME OUT IN YEARS!!! Why would Ellis be a better fit? Dorsey played hurt & still dominated SEC competition. The previous sentence ought to end the debate.

Pak...hush about Dorsey not being injury prone. He's a walking injury....at least I hope that's how the 1st nine teams in this year's draft see it. He is, in my opinion, the best player in this year's draft. I hear all the knocks...he doesn't have elite upper body strength, etc... Neither did Warren Sapp, but I bet if you measure the strength of those "hamhocks" that keep him making plays....you'll find he's one of the strongest in the class. DT's should be measured by "lower" body strength, so don't get caught up in the hype of the combine. This guy has heart, a motor, & stamina the likes of the greatest DT's. Wait....forget I said all that...he's injury prone. You hear that Miami, Atlanta, Cincinatti, etc....he's injury prone!

Euphoria · 03-30-2008, 10:39 AM

Well its so nice to see people step and and say these things about Dorsey. He is a guy you HAVE to double team or he will win games. Even when you double team him he can still be disruptive like no one. This is what our team has been missing. Dorsey would be the better fit hands down. You have to disrupt and apply pressure. Our front 7 can't and hasn't done it. Not only being doubled team will free up another to blitz.

hagan714 · 03-30-2008, 10:58 AM

Look I do not care which one you target. You just have to get one of the top 6 players. After that it gets really so-so.

#1 Darren McFadden HB Arkansas
#2 Glenn Dorsey DT Louisiana State
#3 Vernon Gholston DE Ohio State
#4 Chris Long DE Virginia
#5 Jake Long OT Michigan
#6 Sedrick Ellis DT USC

After this I am all for trading down and getting picks in 2 and 3. Cap wise these rounds are solid for player quality vs contract. The others in round 1 are gambles for the most point when you take the player quality vs contract as your governing factor. heck I would not cry if we traded out of one all together. I know that will get some

for this one

saints1234 · 03-30-2008, 12:17 PM

the Saints are not going to waste a pick on vernon ok

ScottF · 03-30-2008, 12:24 PM

When the strength of schedule came out and I saw that we were at 10, not 13, obviously I was happy. Looking at the talent now, I am not sure we gain that much.
Hagan is right- if you are not taking top 6 this year, then picks 7-15 are all just a matter of preference. I mean, Rivers and DRC are in the mocks anywhere from 8 to 32. Not even #1 is settled.

So, what I guess I am saying is trade up or trade down, because at number 10, we are going to have to overpay for whomever we get.

St. Jude · 03-30-2008, 02:40 PM

Sorry, I don't think making a move for Vernon is a wasted pick. I too would prefer Dorsey, but everyone knows the best cure for a weak secondary is a strong pass rush. Just look at the Giants winning formula last year. Their secondary looked awful the first 5 or 6 games of the yr. I could easily argue DE is one of our weaknesses, yeah C Grant & Smith are capable, but without a fresh rotation, they struggle. Still think their best yr was when we had D Howard in the rotation.

Euphoria · 03-30-2008, 02:46 PM

Originally Posted by St. Jude

Sorry, I don't think making a move for Vernon is a wasted pick. I too would prefer Dorsey, but everyone knows the best cure for a weak secondary is a strong pass rush. Just look at the Giants winning formula last year. Their secondary looked awful the first 5 or 6 games of the yr. I could easily argue DE is one of our weaknesses, yeah C Grant & Smith are capable, but without a fresh rotation, they struggle. Still think their best yr was when we had D Howard in the rotation.

Someone with some sense. I agree we have to get a pass rush in order to go anywheres. We have a solid line for stopping the run but on passing downs we need a unit in there that has got to get to the QB. DE I don't hink is that bad because they are great and sitting back and waiting for the rushing RB to come to them but they are BAD and getting to the QB.

bobad · 03-30-2008, 03:11 PM

Originally Posted by Euphoria

Someone with some sense. I agree we have to get a pass rush in order to go anywheres. We have a solid line for stopping the run but on passing downs we need a unit in there that has got to get to the QB. DE I don't hink is that bad because they are great and sitting back and waiting for the rushing RB to come to them but they are BAD and getting to the QB.

If Gholston would slip to the Pats, I would love to move up and grab him. Don't think it will happen though, because he a very hot prospect ATM.

Unless he adds a bit of weight, I don't really see Gholston as a prototypical NFL DE. I see him as more of a hybrid DE/OLB type, similar to the great LT. Not saying he will be as good as LT, but the same type player.

03-30-2008, 06:21 AM	#11
thesaintsfan The Real Deal Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 174	Re: saints eyeing vernon? Originally Posted by pakowitz i think gholston is high on their board but they are showing less interest in a hope to trade down and pick him up l8r.. miami runs the 3-4 and since the next few teams dont, i doubt stl, atl, oak, or KC is gonna want him.. so maybe try to trade with KC.. KC takes jake long and then miami selects gholston at 5.. right ahead of the jets who are the 2nd team that runs a 3-4 That was a great point pakowitz. As a matter of fact I think that's exactly what's going on. It make sense because you know how much Parcells loves his LBs. Parcells knows that for his defense to excel he needs a rush from the edge. The man who drafted LT, Demarcus Ware and John Abraham knows a thing or two about DE/OLB tweeners and if Gholston's got the goods you can bet your behind that Parcells will try to get him. That makes so much since now that Miami hasn't brought him in for a private workout. You might've nailed this one becaus you know KC wants Jake Long! They need alot of help on the line and if they aren't sold on Clady or Otah they will try to go up for Long.
	We are the music makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams.

03-30-2008, 06:44 AM	#12
thesaintsfan The Real Deal Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 174	Re: saints eyeing vernon? Originally Posted by beauchristopher I know I will get ripped to shreds, but my gut says Ellis is a better fit for New Orleans defense than Dorsey. It's nothing to do about injuries. It's just a gut feeling.. My own opinion.. just like you all have your own feelings.. Gholston will be gone in the first 5 picks. I AM SHOCKED miami is not atleast in more contact.. i think everyone in the top 5 wants to trade down but can't.. not many teams are interested in trading up this year. not even dallas is interested in gettin into the top 5.. maybe top 10.. I'm not going to rip you to shreds and I repsect your opinion even though it's wrong. You are right to be high on Ellis. Most years he'd be the hands down #1 DT, most years. But this isn't a normal year because the best DT prospect since Warren Sapp just happens to be in the same class. Glen Dorsey is in a class by himself. I watched him week after week and this dude is the most disputive DT I have ever seen. Very few DTs can take over a game like he does. Usually only the elite pass rushing DEs and LBs can take over a game. People say "well to be so dominate he never put up jaw dropping stats". To them I say this, watch the guy on tape and you'll see that he was doubled team alot leaving the DEs and LBs to run down plays untouched. He runs down the running back better than any DT I've ever seen at that level. Teams would run away from him and he and he would get through traffic better than some LBs. And oh yeah, the guy was doing all that after a coward tried to put him out of football with a brutal chop. The guy is special and he is the best fit for our defense out of all the players in this draft.
	We are the music makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams.

03-30-2008, 10:22 AM	#13
gandhi1007 Part Time Pimp Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 1,967	Re: saints eyeing vernon? 1st off....GLEN DORSEY IS THE BEST DT PROSPECT TO COME OUT IN YEARS!!! Why would Ellis be a better fit? Dorsey played hurt & still dominated SEC competition. The previous sentence ought to end the debate. Pak...hush about Dorsey not being injury prone. He's a walking injury....at least I hope that's how the 1st nine teams in this year's draft see it. He is, in my opinion, the best player in this year's draft. I hear all the knocks...he doesn't have elite upper body strength, etc... Neither did Warren Sapp, but I bet if you measure the strength of those "hamhocks" that keep him making plays....you'll find he's one of the strongest in the class. DT's should be measured by "lower" body strength, so don't get caught up in the hype of the combine. This guy has heart, a motor, & stamina the likes of the greatest DT's. Wait....forget I said all that...he's injury prone. You hear that Miami, Atlanta, Cincinatti, etc....he's injury prone!
	http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g2...gs/12-3006.jpg ______________________________ KNOWING IS HALF THE BATTLE! -G.I. Joe

03-30-2008, 10:39 AM	#14
Euphoria 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 7,601 Blog Entries: 5	Re: saints eyeing vernon? Well its so nice to see people step and and say these things about Dorsey. He is a guy you HAVE to double team or he will win games. Even when you double team him he can still be disruptive like no one. This is what our team has been missing. Dorsey would be the better fit hands down. You have to disrupt and apply pressure. Our front 7 can't and hasn't done it. Not only being doubled team will free up another to blitz.

03-30-2008, 10:58 AM	#15
hagan714 LB Mentallity Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 15,870 Blog Entries: 68	Re: saints eyeing vernon? Look I do not care which one you target. You just have to get one of the top 6 players. After that it gets really so-so. #1 Darren McFadden HB Arkansas #2 Glenn Dorsey DT Louisiana State #3 Vernon Gholston DE Ohio State #4 Chris Long DE Virginia #5 Jake Long OT Michigan #6 Sedrick Ellis DT USC After this I am all for trading down and getting picks in 2 and 3. Cap wise these rounds are solid for player quality vs contract. The others in round 1 are gambles for the most point when you take the player quality vs contract as your governing factor. heck I would not cry if we traded out of one all together. I know that will get some for this one
	"We may have lost the game, but you'll be hurting tomorrow." Doug Atkins

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03-30-2008, 12:17 PM	#16
saints1234 WHODaT#7 Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Crowley Posts: 142	Re: saints eyeing vernon? the Saints are not going to waste a pick on vernon ok

03-30-2008, 12:24 PM	#17
ScottF 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Atlanta Posts: 6,324	Re: saints eyeing vernon? When the strength of schedule came out and I saw that we were at 10, not 13, obviously I was happy. Looking at the talent now, I am not sure we gain that much. Hagan is right- if you are not taking top 6 this year, then picks 7-15 are all just a matter of preference. I mean, Rivers and DRC are in the mocks anywhere from 8 to 32. Not even #1 is settled. So, what I guess I am saying is trade up or trade down, because at number 10, we are going to have to overpay for whomever we get.

03-30-2008, 02:40 PM	#18
St. Jude Rookie Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 6	Re: saints eyeing vernon? Sorry, I don't think making a move for Vernon is a wasted pick. I too would prefer Dorsey, but everyone knows the best cure for a weak secondary is a strong pass rush. Just look at the Giants winning formula last year. Their secondary looked awful the first 5 or 6 games of the yr. I could easily argue DE is one of our weaknesses, yeah C Grant & Smith are capable, but without a fresh rotation, they struggle. Still think their best yr was when we had D Howard in the rotation.
St. Jude Rookie Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 6

03-30-2008, 02:46 PM	#19
Euphoria 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 7,601 Blog Entries: 5	Re: saints eyeing vernon? Originally Posted by St. Jude Sorry, I don't think making a move for Vernon is a wasted pick. I too would prefer Dorsey, but everyone knows the best cure for a weak secondary is a strong pass rush. Just look at the Giants winning formula last year. Their secondary looked awful the first 5 or 6 games of the yr. I could easily argue DE is one of our weaknesses, yeah C Grant & Smith are capable, but without a fresh rotation, they struggle. Still think their best yr was when we had D Howard in the rotation. Someone with some sense. I agree we have to get a pass rush in order to go anywheres. We have a solid line for stopping the run but on passing downs we need a unit in there that has got to get to the QB. DE I don't hink is that bad because they are great and sitting back and waiting for the rushing RB to come to them but they are BAD and getting to the QB.

03-30-2008, 03:11 PM	#20
bobad 100th Post Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 247	Re: saints eyeing vernon? Originally Posted by Euphoria Someone with some sense. I agree we have to get a pass rush in order to go anywheres. We have a solid line for stopping the run but on passing downs we need a unit in there that has got to get to the QB. DE I don't hink is that bad because they are great and sitting back and waiting for the rushing RB to come to them but they are BAD and getting to the QB. If Gholston would slip to the Pats, I would love to move up and grab him. Don't think it will happen though, because he a very hot prospect ATM. Unless he adds a bit of weight, I don't really see Gholston as a prototypical NFL DE. I see him as more of a hybrid DE/OLB type, similar to the great LT. Not saying he will be as good as LT, but the same type player.
bobad 100th Post Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 247