Saints Draft Grade
 

Besides the grade...

What was the most elated moment of this Draft for you as a Saints Fan...

...and your Biggest Disappointment???

Re: Saints Draft Grade
 

Biggest disappointment was hearing K.C. call Dorsey's name without us getting a trade done for him.

Most elated was getting a trade done and hearing the Saint's call Ellis' name.

Re: Saints Draft Grade
 

I would have loved dorsey but im happy with Ellis... more of a USC than LSU guy anyway H A H A ! ! !

Re: Saints Draft Grade
 

Oh Yea...

Best Moment: If you count the trade for pick in R4, Vilma has got to be the Truth...

Biggest Disappointment: Dorsey and Shockey at one point actually looked possible; as big a letdown as when my HomeComing Date changed her mind after telling me that night was going to be a Big Night without me asking...

(If you like Backstory...I was a Sophmore and my friends totally trashed me, but I got the last laugh as the HomeComing Queen got wasted and I got to take her home! I was what would become what is now known as Farmer, Ted until I graduated. Ah the drama of High School)

Re: Saints Draft Grade
 

D for Defense

Re: Saints Draft Grade
 

most disapointing moment, the kicker, even though he may turn out to be good. i gave us a B, it was an A, but the kicker brought it to a B. I wanted Griffin the Safety from Texas with the sixth pick.

Re: Saints Draft Grade
 

I am ok with the K. I do find it a let down we didn't get either one Dorsey or Shockey after all the talks going on but I blame that on the Giants for wanting to much. Its going to come back and bite them.

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I'm not into blind Patriotism, but I gotta admit when the Cadet from Army was drafted and the crowd got loud...well, that was pretty nice caveat to the 2nd day of the draft, except for the fact it was the Lions who picked...

Re: Saints Draft Grade
 

Missing on Dorsey getting Ellis

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It was no secret that the Saints were targeting Dorsey and Ellis.
I did finally exhale when the trade was announced.

That is a lie.

I exhaled when I realized they were truly commited to DEFENSE!

That being said.

I hope that I am an insane, paranoid, deluded fan because I just cannot get this name out of my head right now.........

JONATHAN SULLIVAN

I am gonna send Ellis a chicken's foot to reverse the curse of the
"Heavy Lunch Bunch"!!!!!!

Re: Saints Draft Grade
 

We addressed exactly what we needed in this draft... we get a B+ in my book. Go Saints!

Look I'm sure we make very competitive offer for Dorsey and Shockey but we couldn't land them... but we got a hell of a consolation prize.

Re: Saints Draft Grade
 

The person who graded our draft a D must be a Giants fan....Thumbs up all the way and Drafting the kicker was great move we needed it and who says if he was an UDFA he would've signed with us.

Re: Saints Draft Grade
 

Best moment happened with Vilma. My bestfriend is a Jets fan and called me to tell me we just got there best player. He is still pissed.
Next i rode up and down with the whole dorsey/shockey trade deal. I was excited when we got Ellis but still thought the Shockey deal would go through, though, im not really a Shockey fan.

Then we got Tracy "who the?" Porter and after seeing some video of him, i got really excited. Hes got speed and hands and we havent had that in along time.

Then at the last minute we got Adrian Arrington, who despite some of field BS, has some real potential. Ive seen some video of some awesome grabs he has had and ill be damned if he isnt going to make the cut this year as a #3.

Lots of drama, especially cus i was listening to NFL Radio the whole time and every 10 minutes they were talking about the Saints. FO did a great job making us hopeful after a heartbreaking year.

For that i give the draft an A over all and an A+ counting or predraft trades.

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I think its an A because I think they got who they wanted in round 1 with Ellis. All the trading up for Dorsey talk was a smoke screen to position themselves for the player they wanted. Coach O sold the Saints on Ellis long before the pick and I think that was the player they targeted all along. Round 2 was up for grabs as the Shockly trade was likely in play and I like not giving in to the G-men's demands(must have been high) and taking the BPA that fills a critical position that needed addressing.
The Saints needed to improve D and they gave themselves a chance by drafting D players and not TE's or OT with the first two picks. The ulitmate grading will be what impact this years pick have on this years team...

Re: Saints Draft Grade
 

Yes, we drafted defense. BUT only one real impact player probably for the next 2 - 3 years... Again, mostly developmental players IMO that we'll have to wait a few seasons to see if they can contribute. Guess that's what you get with only 2 picks in the first 4 rounds.

Overall, including trading for Vilma in the off season, I think the Saints improved the team and Sedrick Ellis was definitely the one player we needed to get to build a dominate pass rush around.

B

Re: Saints Draft Grade
 

I loved this draft. Smoke screen and mis directions. The saints really did their homework and even though this draft goes down as one of the craziest ever they got the players they wanted.

1. Ellis was the target all along once the FO remembered Haz was on the other end of the phone. No way was he going to let the Rams give the Saints anything.

2. Tracy was always in the top 6 mix and was one of the few on that list that was from a big school. He has played against some of the best WR in country while he was in the big ten conference. He is ready to go out on the island soon.

3. We got the player we wanted by leap frogging Cinnci once again. Go read some of the threads at the Bengals site and you will get a good laugh. More importantly we addressed the lack of youth at the DT position with two very good players.

4. One thing I am very comfortable with is the saints evaluating OL talent. we filled the one thing we did not have and that was a player that can play OG or OT.

5. Kicker? Well after 2 years of carrying two kickers we look to open up a roster spot by carrying just one. sorry the pick was needed. When we go on the road in December and play in the snow you will really love this pick.

6. WR? another nice pick. I would have never thought Adrian would have lasted this long in the draft. We have two good WR, a #1 that has yet to hit the field and well a group of so-so's leftovers. He should make the squad and send one of the so-so packing. It is the so-so you are suppose to upgrade. Well worth the risk and it also kept the Bucs from picking him. I know the saints war room loved that. That alone was worth the 6th

Overall I am going with A for this draft. Lets not forget we added Vilma in this draft for a 4th. I know the price should go up next year but till then it is an A grade.

Re: Saints Draft Grade
 

A-

I feel very good overall about the choices made, and the cost we spent to get them. I'm very happy with this draft. That being said, the only negatives I can think of (and this is just nitpicking, why A+ turned into A-) are:

1) We offered too much for Dorsey - thank God KC didn't take us up on that offer

2) We didn't grab a center. The center issue could come back to haunt us if our starter goes down, and there was some great value still on the board in the 6th round.

3) I'm still trying to understand the Pressley pick. I figured Ellis would replace Bryan Young, but once Pressley was drafted, that no longer made sense. I suspect Ahtyba Rubin might've been a better pick for our second tackle, which wouldn't have required the trade of our 7th rounder.

But again, I'm very happy with this draft. Very happy indeed. This is the best I've ever felt after a New Orleans draft.

Re: Saints Draft Grade
 

Hagan summed my thoughts up well.

Favorite Moment: When they showed the details of the trade with the Pats. Look at the value chart. If we would have not gotten than 5th pick back, it would have been even on points. So we came out a 5th round pick to the good. Plus this draft was top heavy.

Biggest disappointment: None really. I guess waiting through the 3rd and 4th rounds kinda sucked.

Also, if you think that kickers don't matter, search this board for the words "kill" and "mare".

Bottom line: We got 4 players that could start or see significant PT (Ellis, Porter-PR, Nicks, Melhalf) and two more BCS conference players that add depth and could develop quickly.

Grade: A

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I think a B+ on hold. If Ellis does not measure up it will be a D. There may be a good surprise or two with Arrington and Mehlhaff the kicker. A good kicker is underrated in football and can get you out of some jams. have to do some research and see if this guy can punt. If Arrington can come through with Meacham and Colston what a group we could have in the near future. I am curious to see how Ellis will do with the upgrade in competition. I know he did not face the same quality as Dorsey. Did any one make the comparision as I to the size of Ellis's head in respect to Dorsey's.

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I gave it an A.... but man if we got Adibi in the 4th.....

Re: Saints Draft Grade
 

I give it a B+
The Ellis pick is obviously a great pick.
I hope the Porter pick pans out, but does anyone think that he will replace any of our starters? Any of our backups? I hope he does, but in reality, I don't think he'll touch the field. I would have preferred going after a TE, LB, or even Forte at 40. I hope I'm wrong though.
The rest of the draft was good.

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ah kiper gave us a C+...i also gave us a C+ but since i dont like mel....now i give us an A-

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KIPER is an idiot

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Starters? - no.
Backups? - yes.

He'll be in the dime his rookie season, or maybe even in the nickel. But in a year or two (or three at the outside), he'll be a starter.

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lol - I don't want an A from Kiper. If we'd gotten an A from him, it'd have meant we had a terrible draft. Thank GOD we didn't get an A from him.

Re: Saints Draft Grade
 

After this years draft I am filled with glee. Glee. A word that I've probably never spoke aloud but whatever.

After last years draft I was left feeling disappointed. You wait for the draft for months and end up dissatisfied. I'm not saying that any of those players drafted won't contribute, they may. The first round pick for a WR, the trade to move up for a RB. I just didn't like it.

I have grown to like the Saints style of moving all over the draft boards with trades. It keeps it interesting. I continued to pay attention to the draft in rounds 3-4 because I was sure that the Saints would find a way to trade into those rounds. Good show.

Re: Saints Draft Grade
 

come on. to get an A or a B we need to draft players that become starters right away. Now the saints are not that BAD. Thats Rounds 1 and 2 stuff. Round 3 is very good backups with a good chance of being a starter. Anything beyond that is wishful thinking and thus labeled a steal 3 to 4 years later.
Now if this was 2 years ago when this team was BAD then both of these day one picks would be starters. The rest would be great backups with a chance to start. Same goes for last years draft. Well except the physically unable to perform Mech.
The team is much deeper and better than that now. So we are looking for Starters on defense and quality players on offense to improve our depth. defense won this draft. Long over due.
We got a starter in round 1. We got a DB that will be in the mix at our #3 or #4 spots. he has the skills to become the #1 guy or at least the #2. Whats so bad about that? We got a CB that was one of the safest picks in the draft. Carson and him are the only two DB's with a lot of questions surrounding them in the top 10 of that group.
Prospects in 5, 6 and 7 are always project that usually come with baggage. I like the picks. Each on is solid and filled an area of need. I do not see where we reached one one pick.
The thing I like is this, we will never know till they take the field and play for two or three years. Then we can grade this draft. Last years draft class hit the field this year. Now we can start looking at the picks.

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I also thought the draft went very well. As for the kicker take a look at the stats on him. Hes put the vast majority of his kicks in the end zone eliminating the run back in its entirety. Though i would have to agree it seems we have always had a problem at the CB position, i have a feeling that the issue has been addressed, and we are going to see them stepping up this year. The only question now is " Can the other teams handle the reincarnation of the dome patrol combined with one of the best offenses in the league?" WHO DAT!!!!!!!

Re: Saints Draft Grade
 

Hagan, I enjoyed your post. I often wonder what goes into a draft grade?

My best guess is this: the grade is determined on the basis of several dimensions, (1) number of impact players that will make the starting roster, (2) number of players that will make the roster, (3) projected quality of the player against in what round they are picked. Maybe even (4) something about the teams needs remaining after the draft. Others?

None of these things (except maybe #3 and #4, and then only sort of) can be determined until (at least) the season starts. So the grades people give must be based on projections regarding how good a player is relative to the other players on the roster, projections regardging whether they will make the roster at all, and projections regarding how good they will be (relative to the cost to get them). (Probably projections regarding how good the other players already on the roster will be, as well.)

This means that the grades are all based on projections, right? Is that bad? I mean, certainly there is something to be said about grading teams on their drafts (relative to other teams) on the basis of projections, needs, and projections regarding the team's remaining needs, no?

Just curious, really.

Re: Saints Draft Grade
 

No you are right grades this early are useless! Its just projected, interesting reads sure but no one should take them to heart. You have to wait 3-4 years and then you can truely grade/rate the draft all you want based on facts! Right now its anyones guess.

Re: Saints Draft Grade
 

thanks JKOOL

talent available + team needs = grade

you back to the old debate, team needs vs. best player available.

Completely objective.

Thats why you always see them go back three or four years later to regrade teams. You have to get the players on the field. 2 years ago the saints were said to be reaching and every media source was wondering what the heck they were doing. Next year they will look at regrading the class and you can listen to the media admit they were wrong.

IMO team needs are over rated. You try to address them if you can and pray the BPA addresses those needs. If not oh well you take the player that is there or try to trade out and start praying again.

team needs are best addressed in FA. even that is Completely objective

Re: Saints Draft Grade
 

Euph, I believe I agree.

However, I do think that scouts (et.al.) are evaluating something in players (even before the player has played a single down in the NFL). This means that projections must count for something, right?

Here is an interpretation: draft grades given now include a lot of projection, wishful thinking, and judgments that are relative to how much a team appears to have improved; this is not worth much (though not worthless). This I think reflects the idea that draft grades are "good reads" to a certain extent. Draft grades given a couple of years would be more accurate assessments of how much a given draft improved a team. However, these later grades wouldn't be as much use in assessing the draft strategy of the current front office, since all they had to go on was projections.

Maybe there are two very different grades to be given regarding each draft: (1) a grade of how reasonable a Front Office behaved given the information they have and the roster they have, versus (2) a grade for the actual impact a draft has on a team. The first could be done "now-ish", whereas the second can only be done "later-ish"?

Re: Saints Draft Grade
 

that sums it up beautifully. LOL

Re: Saints Draft Grade
 

Hagan, I believe I agree with you on BPA.

I am confused by what you mean by "completely objective"? I take it you mean that there is some forumla for determining which is the BPA, even if it is based on projections (and the like). With this formula, we can determine if teams took the BPA or not. Teams that take BPAs are given higher grades. Is this right?

If this is the case, and just to check that I'm understanding, do you think trading down ever makes sense? If it does, then it seems that there are times that a team should not take the BPA. Maybe this is what you have in mind by adding "team need" to the grade equation?

I guess, I'm just trying to get a handle on how the grades are assessed, and how they are to be interpreted.

Re: Saints Draft Grade
 

Ah. I see you liked my earlier take.

Though, I think I have the idea of two very different kind of grades now, I'm wondering what really goes into them.

The second grade (team impact in the long run) is pretty obvious, but what are the kinds of things that go into the first grade (assessment of the FO given the information available)?

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I was probably the most happy with the Carl Nicks pick in the 5th. He graded as a 1-2 rounde ron some peoples draftboards and might be an absolute steal for us.