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thesaintsfan 04-30-2008 01:55 AM

Re: LB
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by saintpaul25 (Post 164886)
I have to say, that I don't think enough is being said about Pressley here, at a possible starting spot. I watched the tape on this guy, and he is a freaking beast. Paired with Ellis, I honestly think we could have the best DT tandem in the NFL very quickly, if Ellis lives up to the hype.

LBs, that don't have to worry about backing up their d-line, are freed up to do alot more damage in the secondary, as are the safeties, and cbs. With the front four possibilities we have going on, the rest of that defense has got to be licking it's chops right now. Hell, even Jason David could look good behind these guys! Well, maybe..... : )

I see what you're saying about Pressley saintpaul. I watch a great deal of ACC football because it's always on ESPN. I've always liked what I've seen. I'll tell you the straight dope on Pressley, and this is coming my scout friend, he will either be a 10 year pro or he will never try hard enough to max out his ability. Typical boom or bust. I say he boom's, big time! We'll see.

hagan714 04-30-2008 04:21 AM

Re: LB
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by thesaintsfan (Post 164893)
I see what you're saying about Pressley saintpaul. I watch a great deal of ACC football because it's always on ESPN. I've always liked what I've seen. I'll tell you the straight dope on Pressley, and this is coming my scout friend, he will either be a 10 year pro or he will never try hard enough to max out his ability. Typical boom or bust. I say he boom's, big time! We'll see.

Thats why he was there in the 5th. A lot of questions around the kid. He can bust all he wants. He is only a 5th rounder and he is not going to get a ton of cash. Some people have him talent wise as the #3 DT in the draft. Others had him going right were he went because of heart. If he would have blown people away at the combine and stuff he would still have the questions but would have been gone in the third. I for one am glad he didn't.

JKool 04-30-2008 07:46 AM

Re: LB
 
TSF, I think the second line up is more likely, if we were going to a 3-4. Given our personel, I think it is less likely.

A lot of interesting things can be done from a 4-3. We just don't do them all that often. Consider a zone-blitz package, where Fugita or Vilma take an inside rush and Will Smith drops to coverage? A well built 4-3 can do almost all the same things as a 3-4. I think sometimes we Saints fans love the 3-4 more than we should because that is what the beloved Dome Patrol played.

SP25, I think Pressely is a good X-factor right now. Speaking for myself, I tend to get over-excited about the draftees. I always think they'll make the team, and I always think we'll find a steal! If experience is any indicator, I'll be wrong about every pick put the first and maybe the second. If only I could learn not to buy the hype on our 3-7th picks. Oh well.

I agree that with better players (or better play) in the front 4, we may not have to change our Defensive Schemes too much; I was just hypothesizing about Vilma's position in our D.

BIGEASY504 04-30-2008 11:15 AM

Re: LB
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JKool (Post 164558)
In a 4-3, usually you expect your edge rush from a DE. It would be nice to have any LB who can pressure the QB - SLB, WLB, or MLB. The 4-3 Blitz packages are just different from the 3-4 ones we used to use in the old days with Swilling and Jackson.

Is it clear to everyone that Vilma will play MLB? I think he'd make a great WLB too. He's got good speed and, as I recall, he isn't too bad in coverage. People are down on Simoneau, but with Ellis in the middle of the DL now, he may be able to play much better. I like the speed and skill of a Vilma (WLB), Simoneau (MLB), and Fugita (SLB) package. Morgan can play on 1st or running downs at MLB. What do you guys think?


SIMONEAU to start HELL NO he really shouldn't be on the team and pluse your taking Vilma out his natural position,

TheDeuce 04-30-2008 12:19 PM

Re: LB
 
The ideal starting situation with the linebackers is:

MLB - Vilma
SLB - Fujita
WLB - Morgan or Shanle

Vilma is a middle linebacker, he has been ever since he's played major football. That's his position and it makes no sense to move him to another position to let Mark Simoneau play.

JKool 04-30-2008 02:27 PM

Re: LB
 
Again, I'm not in favor of Simoneau starting. I don't think he is as bad as people seem to be claiming, which I argued earlier. Further, I think, if he is asked to do certain things, rather than others he can be a much better player.

As far as moving Vilma to WLB, that did depend on my suggestion that we reformulate how we use our MLB and WLB (which would make the suggested WLB position a lot more like what our current MLB position is designed for). Thus, I do think it is a problem to move Vilma over (out of his usual alignment), but I think it is also a problem to merely insist that he play MLB if we were to change the responsibilities of the MLB.

In more simple terms: MLB isn't just a name for where you stand on the field at the snap of the ball, it is also a set of responsibilities. There is a set of responsibilities for a MLB that are different when you have rushers on the interior of the DL from what you have when you have run stuffers on the interior of the DL. I suggested that a WLB set of responsibilities that is a lot more like what Vilma does at MLB (in the Jets system), and I suggested that we redesign the responsibilities for the MLB position too.

Why continue to insist that were he lines up at the snap is more important than his positional responsibilities? That is all there was to my suggestion.

andersen 04-30-2008 02:39 PM

Re: LB
 
Remember also that the MLB is going to be the one that has the speaker hooked up to his helmet this year. He is the playcaller of the defense.

thesaintsfan 04-30-2008 04:29 PM

Re: LB
 
I hope they don't screw up and put the speaker in Morgan's helmet. The sound might give him a concussion.

Euphoria 04-30-2008 04:49 PM

Re: LB
 
I hear voices man! They are talking to me in my head.

JKool 04-30-2008 05:02 PM

Re: LB
 
The MLB doesn't have to make the defensive play calls. In fact, Bellamy was calling our D for a time. It is a mere convention that the MLB calls the plays, not a necessity. Vilma can be the defensive capitain, make the play calls, and wear the speaker, no matter which LB position he plays.

In fact, it might be wise to have Fugita call the plays. He has more experience with our defensive system. However, I'm sure this will decide closer to the start of the season.

As long as Morgan doesn't start claiming he's Batman...

iceshack149 04-30-2008 05:16 PM

Re: LB
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JKool (Post 164958)
The MLB doesn't have to make the defensive play calls. In fact, Bellamy was calling our D for a time. It is a mere convention that the MLB calls the plays, not a necessity. Vilma can be the defensive capitain, make the play calls, and wear the speaker, no matter which LB position he plays.

In fact, it might be wise to have Fugita call the plays. He has more experience with our defensive system. However, I'm sure this will decide closer to the start of the season.

As long as Morgan doesn't start claiming he's Batman...

Good points JKool. I assumed that Vilma would be the one with the radio in his hat because he's a stud but it does make more sense to give Fujita that responsibility.

mighty12 04-30-2008 05:19 PM

Re: LB
 
Rule 1: Defense gets a microphone helmet- Similar to the quarterback, the defense can now use a microphone helmet. The problem is, despite all of the lame sportscaster “he’s the quarterback of the defense” references, there really isn’t a comparable position on defense. The team only gets to use one helmet, so they’ll have to find a way to implement this so that someone that’s on the field almost every snap gets the lucky earpiece. Don’t be surprised if you still see coaches using hand signals come Sundays until they get this concept just right.


This is the reason it is assumed a MLB will be the one with the earpiece. They are now the only ones who really stay on the field in all packages.

JKool 04-30-2008 06:21 PM

Re: LB
 
The MLB being on the field every play is a coaching decision, and it depends on the player (and his skills/abilities), not his position. It just so happens that a lot of teams have moved to the Urlacher-style MLB (a kind of player who can play in every package).

I'm willing to bet that on most teams the FS and at least one of the CBs is on the field every down, and it is pretty usual to have a DT and/or DE that plays almost every down.

I fully agree that the idea of a "quarterback of the defense" is lame. It seems to me that the defensive signal caller should be selected on the basis of leadership, understanding of the game, ability to distribute the play call, and being on the field. This rarely has to do with which position he plays in the base defense.

thesaintsfan 04-30-2008 09:21 PM

Re: LB
 
Maybe they should let Bullocks wear the mic and call plays. At least then they'd get something in return for the money they give him. It's not like he does anything else. I take that back, the man does bite on play action and pump fakes something fierce, I have to give him credit for that. He might be the best in the biz in that regard. You ever notice how he's always guessing but never guesses right? LOL, how does that happen? He never makes the big play. We might as well prop up a scarecrow alongside Harper. Hell it might even be an upgrade.

Champ Kind 04-30-2008 10:02 PM

Re: LB
 
I was just reading a couple of your posts, and I wanted to find out what the deal was with the 3-4 defense. Are you suggesting us to switch to 3-4, and if so, how have you not read anything about Jonathon Vilma. He's extremely happy about coming to play for the Saints because we run a 4-3 defense. They were running a 3-4 in NY and he was miserable, so why would we want to change to the same thing?
Please clarify this for me.

pakowitz 04-30-2008 10:06 PM

Re: LB
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Champ Kind (Post 165001)
I was just reading a couple of your posts, and I wanted to find out what the deal was with the 3-4 defense. Are you suggesting us to switch to 3-4, and if so, how have you not read anything about Jonathon Vilma. He's extremely happy about coming to play for the Saints because we run a 4-3 defense. They were running a 3-4 in NY and he was miserable, so why would we want to change to the same thing?
Please clarify this for me.



whose post are you refering to champ?

SaintPauly 04-30-2008 10:20 PM

Re: LB
 
I think they were just speculating about the 3-4, and how it worked in the past. Not saying we should switch. At least I think that's how it read. I might be wrong.

thesaintsfan 04-30-2008 11:15 PM

Re: LB
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Champ Kind (Post 165001)
I was just reading a couple of your posts, and I wanted to find out what the deal was with the 3-4 defense. Are you suggesting us to switch to 3-4, and if so, how have you not read anything about Jonathon Vilma. He's extremely happy about coming to play for the Saints because we run a 4-3 defense. They were running a 3-4 in NY and he was miserable, so why would we want to change to the same thing?
Please clarify this for me.

Yeah we all know about Vilma's "struggles" in the 3-4. I threw that out there awhile back to see what people thought about it. We don't have the guys to go to a 3-4 but I would like to see us throw in a wrinkle or two on D.

JKool 05-01-2008 10:46 AM

Re: LB
 
I don't think we should go to a 3-4, though I did write some stuff about it earlier.

My suggestion was that we change our scheme slightly so that our MLB focuses more on defending the run, we allow our DTs to free-style more, and we give the WLB more freedom. In this scheme I'm suggesting, I favor Vilma at WLB. Given that we are unlikely to do this, I, like everyone else, am excited to see Vilma at MLB.

Still, I think we'd be better served to change our 4-3 to a 4-3 that uses the MLB and WLB (and DTs) in slightly different ways than we do in our current 4-3.


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