LB
 

Are we suppose to sit around and be content with our fragile LB Corps? I for one and very upset that this postion was not addressed in rounds 5 through 7. Or better yet rounds 1-3. I thought that LB was still a pressing need, because we only have ONE LB who is proven healthy. Vilma, I think will be great, but what if something DOES happen. Dan Morgan, I know will get hurt and when he does he will be gone for good. Who else do we have. I hope that this new front four makes our LB corps look WAY better than they really are.

Re: LB
 

Im hopeful that Morgan won't get as beat around at weakside as he did in the middle. Also, at some point Mitchell or Evans have to be better options than Shanle. I love Fujita and I think Vilma is just going to be a beast now with Ellis in front of him. I can't stand Simenoux as a backup, but at least he can contribute on ST. I honestly feel pretty good about our LB's at this point.
They can all run and attack the ball now and I think Ellis and a bounceback year from Grant and Smith will really make a difference as well.

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I would have liked to see us grab a LB that specializes in pass rush/blitz scenarios and has some cover skills (Woodyard, Highsmith) either in the late rounds or UDFA. But I think we will be fine with the guys we have. Ellis makes Vilma better and Vilma makes the guys around him better.

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I think we are all right there. Even if all of our new guys get injured we can be no worse than we were last year. But I got a feeling they will be fine.

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I agree that our LB corps is suspect, not for skill, but for health. I share your concern, but I'm not sure any 5th through 7th rounder would make the team if the group we have is healthy. Drafting someone who will get cut before the season won't help us when these guys get hurt (if they do) during the season.

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OOOOOOOOOOOO BABY......id be scared to go up against our front seven....aside from maybe the steelers or the chargers....i cant find a better all around group...the NFC is in trouble

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I personally think that the front office did a good job of addressing the linebacker position in free agency so that they could use draft picks on other needs. Vilma is a star in a 4-3 system, and we now have a a stud defensive tackle to let him do his job even better. Simoneau was the biggest weakness last year, and he has been phased out thanks to Vilma. Fujita is still an above average starter, and we now have healthy competition at the WLB spot. So yes, we should be content with our LB corps, which in my opinion, is much stronger now.

Re: LB
 

Totally agree the offseaon the LB got addressed as best it could and that gave us some room to address the other pressing need and that was DT's.

You have to realize this game is designed to be played up front. Having a stud DT will make everyone better. You won't have as many OL coming out to block LB's ect.

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Agrree that the DT pick was better than staying at ten and taking the LB. I still think they need that WLB that can be an edge pass rusher. Shanlee/Morgan are not.

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In a 4-3, usually you expect your edge rush from a DE. It would be nice to have any LB who can pressure the QB - SLB, WLB, or MLB. The 4-3 Blitz packages are just different from the 3-4 ones we used to use in the old days with Swilling and Jackson.

Is it clear to everyone that Vilma will play MLB? I think he'd make a great WLB too. He's got good speed and, as I recall, he isn't too bad in coverage. People are down on Simoneau, but with Ellis in the middle of the DL now, he may be able to play much better. I like the speed and skill of a Vilma (WLB), Simoneau (MLB), and Fugita (SLB) package. Morgan can play on 1st or running downs at MLB. What do you guys think?

Re: LB
 

I think that if I never see Shanle or Simenoux on the field for our starting LB's again it will be too soon.

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Our LB's and coaches don't use the LB's as pass rushers that often. Hell they don't utilize anyone as a pass rusher. I don't see them changing blitzing our LB's that much this season either. Thats why they went after a top DT early. Get some big names up front to disrupt and you're LB's play more like safties and chase down runners.

Its what we do...

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this is what i project as the starting front seven......DE-grant and smith...NT-ellis...DT-Thomis.....MLB-Vilma....Weak-Morgan....Strong-Fujita....ne body else got a projection thats different?

Re: LB
 

DE - Smith and McCray
NT - Ellis
DT - Grant
LB - Vilma, Fujita, Morgan(he will get hurt in preseason)(so Shanle)
CB - Young, McKenzie(Or Gay)
S - Harper and a folding chair named Bullocks(hopefully KK)

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it was between hollis and charles for my DT but other than that i am with u....i think that they will rotate and that mccray will rotate in at DE

Re: LB
 

I look at it this way. I am a little disappointed that we did not get a LB in the draft, however, Vilma is going to be a team leader. He is going to make everyone else around him better. Plus, I am very happy with the Ellis pick as well as the Pressley pickup. These are going to be our starting two DTs. Our biggest weakness on defense last year was a weak pass rush. If we can generate a big pass rush with our front four then this will be a huge year for us. We will have multiple defensive players in the pro bowl because of it.

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I'm not sure Morgan still has the speed to play well as our SLB. Is that the current plan? I thought it was more likely he'd play in the middle. Anyone have any info on that?

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i think Morgan is nothing more than an insurance policy. I can not see him as a 2 down LBer. If Vilma needs a couple of games before he can go then morgan will be active as part of a rotation.

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i think the consensus is that vilma will be a mlb and fujita will be strong side....i think it will most likely be determined this pre season...i dont think the coaches are even 100% where each of our new LBs will be best suited

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I haven't seen you post for a while, kool. I'm glad to see you posting again.

If the Saints put Simoneau in the middle again then the team most certainly needs another LB. I would rather see Shanle there and hope that Evans could play there too. He made some plays in the pre-season last year that caught my attention.

Re: LB
 

If they think they need another LB, then they can still get one before the season starts.

Re: LB
 

Heya Ice,

Good to be back, and it is nice to see there are still some old timers around.

I'm not sold on the idea that Simoneau is carp. He isn't good at sticking his nose in the gap, but he has good speed and can chase down plays. My thought was this: if he is protected by a good interior, then he may still be useful - I thought MLB, but maybe WLB. It depends on how we're going to use our LBs this year.

It seems the going opinion is that Simoneau is a special teamer at best. I'm not convinced, but I'm willing to bet I don't have all the evidence.

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I for one dont understand how anyone can be upset this offseason I think we made great strides to becoming a much better defense.

Re: LB
 

I hope Simmoneau gets splinters from riding the pine.

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The guy did have 70 tackles for us last season. And he was certainly good enough to help us make the playoffs the year before.

I'm not saying he's great or anything, I'm just trying to understand all the hate.

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70/16 = 4.4 tackles per game. Last year, there were 7 games (that he started) and had 3 or fewer tackles. Unacceptable for a MLB in this defense. Vilma will have 100 before December.

Re: LB
 

I certainly concede that Vilma will be better, no matter which LB position he plays; Vilma is a star (if he recovers), Simoneau will never be.

I think our best starting LB set up as of now (and assuming health) is this:

MLB - Morgan
WLB - Vilma
SLB - Fugita

And, there has been some discussion about Morgan at WLB with Vilma at MLB. My preference is we get away from the Urlacher style MLB - speed, every down, and protected by DTs; I'd prefer we go back to an old school 4-3, where the MLB wasn't the every down LB, big, heavy hitter, frees up the DTs to rush (since he doesn't need to be protected). This second system frees the WLB to make more plays in the open, blitz, and focus on the hunt, rather than taking on blockers. This favors Vilma at WLB and Morgan at MLB.

However, if Morgan is unhealthy, which is likely, then I'd like to say that I'd rather have Simoneau (who is speedier, and generally better) on the feild than Shanle. Maybe Evans would be ok, but he hasn't ever been a starter in his 7 years playing. I think a move to WLB would at least improve Simoneau's productivity. We could do worse.

Also, 4.4 tackles per game isn't too bad (Antonio Peirce only had 6 per game). And, as noted, Simoneau was even better the year before.

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admittedly, i'm a Simoneau hater. most of those tackles came after he bit on the fake hand off (as in most of the tackles were 5-10 yards downfield as opposed to at or near the line)...seriously this guy seemed out of position more than i care to remember. he shouldn't have nearly as hard a time finding his position on the bench. That will make at least one person happy, and since my happiness is the only one I care about, I'm fine with it. :cool:

IMO Vilma is at MLB, I've been wrong a billion and a half times before but I can't believe we went out to get this guy so he can play something besides that position.

Re: LB
 

Morgan has only played four games in the past two years. I don't think he will make it through TC, more less the season. I hope I'm wrong.
Vilma is made for the middle, but we still need the WLB. Shanlee/Simoneau ? We have seen what they can do. Mitchell in the middle with Vilma outlside?? Seems like we are still missing a piece.

Re: LB
 

The distinction between a MLB and WLB isn't as strong as it once was.

People have become used to the Urlacher style system, where your MLB is the one who is freed up to make plays all around the field. He has to be tough, but his primary role is no longer run stuffing. This requires DTs that are primarily run-stuffers

My feeling is that if you can get DTs that can penetrate and make plays on the QB, you want a system where your WLB plays the role that MLBs tend to play today. If Ellis is truly more like a LaRoi Glover, then I want my MLB to play run support, be a bruiser and focus on the interior run and hook zone. I want my WLB to be the play maker. This is the only reason I'm suggesting that Vilma be moved outside. I think that makes some sense.

As for Simoneau, I think whether he's on the field regularly should depend on his play (as does everyone else, I take it). Looking at the LBs we have, I think he's a good option at WLB (if we're going to use Vilma in an Urlacher-style MLB role). He got speed and some coverage skills; I certainly agree that he should never play MLB for us again.

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Mitchell is an interesting option. I hadn't considered that.

Can someone tell me what happened to Fincher? I take it we let him go?

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Fincher's gone. We still have Troy Evans, but if he couldn't see playing time last year, he has no hope this year.

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http://www.neworleanssaints.com/Team...0Mitchell.aspx

This is who I'm pulling for this pre-season to get the Saints WLB job.

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I think Pressely will come and play 3 tech and ellis NG

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JKool I feel you on this one. I miss the days of the true MLB. The guy that would stuff the run on first and second and then go get a shot of gatorade. Levon Kirkland comes to mind. It's a shame but guys like Nitchskie and Bednaric probably wouldn't start these days. Todays MLBs aren't the bone crushers they used to be.

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TSF,

That's what I'm talkin' about!

Schemes can still be built to handle this style of MLB, and wouldn't have to ask so much of the SLB and free up the WLB a lot more!

A lot of defenses have gone to a Right-Left configuration (like the CBs) and away from the Strong-Weak configurations of the the past. This adds an element of surprise and allows for greater concealment of defenses; however, it does this at the cost of specialization for some players - which can hurt a player's ability to be a real game changer.

I'm not sure which system I prefer. They both have costs and benefits. I suppose it depends on what players you have. This is one reason for my thinking it would benefit a Vilma to have more freedom to make plays at a WLB in a Strong-Weak configuration where the MLB plays a greater role in run stuffing. It might also benefit a DT like Ellis - freeing him to free-style a bit on the inside, rather than primarily run stop.

Re: LB
 

JKool you know your defense and I like it! I remember you on this board from way back, like '05. I had a different handle back then but anyway. About a month ago I made a post about a possible swith to 3-4 or maybe throwing a 3-4 look out there from time to time. Of course I got blasted and one guy told me I needed therapy. My point was that I'd like to see us run a more modern, complex D to confuse offenses. I know we don't have the pieces in place to go to a 3-4 but by God we need to throw some kinda curveball at offenses because the bend and then break defense just didn't work last year. I know the influx of talent will make us better by default but wouldn't you like to see us go with a more complex scheme?

Re: LB
 

TSF,

Now I wish I could guess who you were...

I guess, I don't think we're set for a 3-4, and probably we don't have the right coaches for it. Different coaches have different "feels" for defenses, and I like it when (unless there are very good personnel reasons) they stick with what they "feel" good with. I am also not sure we have the right players for it (who do you think would play the second ILB and do you think that Ellis is a good NT, just out of curiosity?).

My current feeling is that we may have the right players for a Strong-Weak configuration for our LBs. I'd like to see Vilma get some room to make plays, and I'd like us to free Ellis and Will Smith as often as possible. This seems to me to favor a run stuffer at MLB (and Vilma at WLB). It is hard to say though, since that would require Grant to play more of a run stopping role and play the weak side. Also, it would require Vilma to move from his more natural spot at MLB.

We'll see what happens, but those are my two cents given the players I think we'll have available at the start of the season.

I'd be happy with a more complex scheme, but I my opinion (though it is changing with discussion here) is that we aren't really that great at stopping the run right now and we clearly have trouble with some of the intermediate and deep passing routes (especially over and through the middle). This favors a basic left-right configuration for LBs and the secondary (giving us more coverage options).

I'm torn, really.

It'll be interesting to see what gets decided (especially with the LB positions). I feel good that we have some options - maybe we will get something more complicated this year.

Re: LB
 

I have to say, that I don't think enough is being said about Pressley here, at a possible starting spot. I watched the tape on this guy, and he is a freaking beast. Paired with Ellis, I honestly think we could have the best DT tandem in the NFL very quickly, if Ellis lives up to the hype.

LBs, that don't have to worry about backing up their d-line, are freed up to do alot more damage in the secondary, as are the safeties, and cbs. With the front four possibilities we have going on, the rest of that defense has got to be licking it's chops right now. Hell, even Jason David could look good behind these guys! Well, maybe..... : )

Re: LB
 

If I had to force our current front seven into a 3-4 it would look like this: DE Smith, NT Ellis, DE Grant, OLB Fujita ILB Vilma, ILB Morgan, OLB Sim or Shanle and at times McCray or Smith. Or DE Ellis, NT Hollis, DE Grant, OLB Smith, ILB Vilma, ILB Morgan, OLB Fuji. I know it's a reach but heck, it's just an idea.

No I don't see Ellis as a NT due to bulk issues. He's a perfect fit for our current scheme. After looking at our roster now I feel like we'll be alot better even if we stay with this vanilla D. Reason being, WE WILL BE BRINGING HEAT with our front four. I think McCray has kinda got overlooked in the whole FA and draft hoopla but I think that guy will give us alot of options and will be a steal. If we get anything out of Hollis or Young we might have the best front four in the NFL. NFC South...Beware.