Is pierre tradeable?

SaintFanInATLHELL · 05-16-2008, 10:43 AM

Originally Posted by CantonLegend

the fact is that every team needs a solid running game....

You use solid, I use productive. It means the same thing.

the idea of our offense in '06 was to compliment our passing game well with a solid run game....in '07 it dropped off obviously because of injury but mostly because we were without duece....

The problem here is that I always use numbers to back up claims like that. New Orleans Saints Team Encyclopedia - Pro-Football-Reference.com will give you all the Saints stats for any year you like. So let's compare the seasons:

2006: 472 rushes for 1761 yards 3.7 YPC 110 YPG

2007: 392 rushes for 1466 yards 3.7 YPC 91 YPG

So the crew averaged 5 less rushes per game and 20 less yards per game. Yet the YPC was exactly the same both years.

when our #1 was hurt it was obvious what we were going to do....we had to pass.....when duece is healthy we dont have to....with duece in there he allows flexability of our offense...

Those pesky statistics again. Brees had 580 attempts in 2006 and 652 in 2007. Only 4.5 attempts per game more.

So I guess the Saints had to pass in 2006 when Deuce played all 16 games too?

we can end around with reggie or we can swing pass or quick 3 step drop or run up the middle or sweep....he allows up to do so much just by being on the field...there isnt another running back on our squad that allows us the flexability of all that just by simply being on the field....duece helps reggie by making the defense take care of the middle and then that leaves reggie 1-1 on the outside and usually he wins those....duece doesnt have to carry the offense to be a vital part of it....all he simply has to do is be on the field....when he was hurt last year he couldnt do that...the fact that we drafted reggie in '05 doesnt really matter because he wasnt meant to be our starting running back....he was meant to be a satellite from day 1....reggie is an outstanding player but he was never a true RB....if a team needs a RB they go after him in round 1...idk if its a need position yet but when we decide it is....we will be drafting one in the 1st round

I presume you meant that Reggie wasn't meant to be our starting RB. That's still an open question.

The mistake I think you're making here is thinking that Deuce is the reason for all this flexibility. I believe it's that power I tailback slot that creates that flexibility, not the player. You have all the right reasons listed above. But I don't think that it's the player that creates the mismatches for Reggie, but having a productive back in that slot.

When Deuce got hurt Reggie moved into that power I back slot. He's much easier to contain from there because now you don't have him out on the slot or on the edge creating mismatches as he can't be two places at once.

There's no reason to think that PT23 can't get 200 rushes @ 5 YPC from the power I slot. That's productive and leaves Reggie to roam around the offense creating mismatches.

But in the end it's simply a reiteration of what I started with. The Saints' offense is a two back system where both back combine to create a productive and flexible running game.

We don't need a first round pick to to couple with Reggie to make that system work. And it doesn't have to be Deuce all the time in that slot.

Rotate all 4 guys. They can all catch, they can all block, they can all run, they can be interchangable in Paytons two back offense.

SFIAH

CantonLegend · 05-16-2008, 03:15 PM

Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL

The problem here is that I always use numbers to back up claims like that. New Orleans Saints Team Encyclopedia - Pro-Football-Reference.com will give you all the Saints stats for any year you like. So let's compare the seasons:

the thing about statistics is that they dont always show how a team plays....they show the outcome...but they wont show that a linebacker was man up against reggie or if a safety had to cover him instead...it wont show that the linebacker jumped on a play fake cuz duece is a real threat up the gut...u make very good points using stats and usually i love ppl that back up claims with facts and figures...however in this case....its more about overall value than it is stats....also...with the passing and rushing stats from the past 2 years....i agree we only passed a few more times.....but the run vs pass was different.....meaning...we knew in '06 that we had a guy to run up the middle and pound out those last few yards where as in '07 we didnt have that reassurance....we had to make up for it by passing those 4.5 more times or w/e u said it was....that could've meant the difference between another field goal or a first down etc...do u see where im going with this?....maybe not...maybe im just rambling....do i have a point or am i completely off the wall....i tend to do that sometimes too

dasaints26 · 05-16-2008, 12:24 AM

I think it is more realistic that PT will be a member of the Saints than trade bait for a late round pick. Especially if you consider 2 of our 4 RBs in the final years of their careers. I really hope Deuce has one more year left in those surgically repaired knees but I hope for his sake he calls it quits after that so he will be able to walk around and enjoy the rest of his life and not spend it in a wheelchair. I think Steckers one year contract sums up how much he has left in the tank.

What has PT done to justify being in the NFL after not being drafted? First he accepted a tryout for the Saints. Other teams also contacted PT but he choose the Saints. Lets see undrafted RB decides to try out for a team with 2 1st round RB and a newly drafted 4th rounder the team traded up to get. PT must have had a little confidence in his ability to think he could come here and make the team in a position that at the time seemed full of depth.

When given the opportunity PT has shown he can be a RB at this level. Preseason (I know preseason WTF) PT made us all fans and we all wondered why he wasnt given a shot to make some plays during the year especially when the running disappeared. Well in making the most out of your opportunities as our 4th string RB in your only start of the year congrats to PT as the only Saints RB EVER to rush for 100yds and catch for 100yds in the same game.

Is stecker tradeable?

hagan714 · 05-16-2008, 05:06 AM

Originally Posted by dasaints26

Is stecker tradeable?

No he will be to busy training PT to do his job. Heck they can have a 4 year schooling program as far as I am concerned. To me the #3/#4 RB position is in great shape. It is one of the positions I am not worried about. Who knows PT may become the solid #2/#3 we need. But for now I am happy that both are on the team. Why break this marriage up?

Touchdown · 05-16-2008, 08:18 AM

i would trade Bush before i traded Thomas.

saintsfan1976 · 05-16-2008, 08:28 AM

Originally Posted by Touchdown

i would trade Bush before i traded Thomas.

Ha haaaa haaaaa

Sure.

Predator · 05-16-2008, 12:36 PM

I really believe, that at the price, and since he did show some really good signs last year that even if PT was tradeable, I don't think we would want to. We all hope Deuce returns to the back he has always been, but even if he is 100% healthy the next couple of years, we have to begin looking to the future. PT is a young back and being mentored by Deuce while hopefully getting an increase in playing time could be nothing but a good thing for New Orleans.

phatoosdey · 05-17-2008, 10:32 AM

so...what you're really trying to say is that we lost in 2007 because our defense was awful?

CantonLegend · 05-17-2008, 11:58 AM

SFIAH, i actually read all of that....and i didnt say that the defense was good...everybody agrees that our defense was terrible and thats an understatement.....what i did say is that matchups on offense were different having reggie in the slot with duece in the backfield as opposed to just PT in the backfield

SaintFanInATLHELL · 05-17-2008, 06:41 PM

Originally Posted by CantonLegend

SFIAH, i actually read all of that....and i didnt say that the defense was good...everybody agrees that our defense was terrible and thats an understatement.....what i did say is that matchups on offense were different having reggie in the slot with duece in the backfield as opposed to just PT in the backfield

You believe that the matchups are different. But there's very little supporting evidence to support that observation. As I said in another post, Deuce going down moved Bush into the I back position. That was the loss of flexibility.

I assert once again with my Chicago game as evidence, that PT23 can be productive in that I back position, and be productive enough to free Bush to go back to being the X factor.

SFIAH

05-16-2008, 10:43 AM	#1
SaintFanInATLHELL The Professor Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Lithonia, GA Posts: 2,783	Re: Is pierre tradeable? Originally Posted by CantonLegend the fact is that every team needs a solid running game.... You use solid, I use productive. It means the same thing. the idea of our offense in '06 was to compliment our passing game well with a solid run game....in '07 it dropped off obviously because of injury but mostly because we were without duece.... The problem here is that I always use numbers to back up claims like that. New Orleans Saints Team Encyclopedia - Pro-Football-Reference.com will give you all the Saints stats for any year you like. So let's compare the seasons: 2006: 472 rushes for 1761 yards 3.7 YPC 110 YPG 2007: 392 rushes for 1466 yards 3.7 YPC 91 YPG So the crew averaged 5 less rushes per game and 20 less yards per game. Yet the YPC was exactly the same both years. when our #1 was hurt it was obvious what we were going to do....we had to pass.....when duece is healthy we dont have to....with duece in there he allows flexability of our offense... Those pesky statistics again. Brees had 580 attempts in 2006 and 652 in 2007. Only 4.5 attempts per game more. So I guess the Saints had to pass in 2006 when Deuce played all 16 games too? we can end around with reggie or we can swing pass or quick 3 step drop or run up the middle or sweep....he allows up to do so much just by being on the field...there isnt another running back on our squad that allows us the flexability of all that just by simply being on the field....duece helps reggie by making the defense take care of the middle and then that leaves reggie 1-1 on the outside and usually he wins those....duece doesnt have to carry the offense to be a vital part of it....all he simply has to do is be on the field....when he was hurt last year he couldnt do that...the fact that we drafted reggie in '05 doesnt really matter because he wasnt meant to be our starting running back....he was meant to be a satellite from day 1....reggie is an outstanding player but he was never a true RB....if a team needs a RB they go after him in round 1...idk if its a need position yet but when we decide it is....we will be drafting one in the 1st round I presume you meant that Reggie wasn't meant to be our starting RB. That's still an open question. The mistake I think you're making here is thinking that Deuce is the reason for all this flexibility. I believe it's that power I tailback slot that creates that flexibility, not the player. You have all the right reasons listed above. But I don't think that it's the player that creates the mismatches for Reggie, but having a productive back in that slot. When Deuce got hurt Reggie moved into that power I back slot. He's much easier to contain from there because now you don't have him out on the slot or on the edge creating mismatches as he can't be two places at once. There's no reason to think that PT23 can't get 200 rushes @ 5 YPC from the power I slot. That's productive and leaves Reggie to roam around the offense creating mismatches. But in the end it's simply a reiteration of what I started with. The Saints' offense is a two back system where both back combine to create a productive and flexible running game. We don't need a first round pick to to couple with Reggie to make that system work. And it doesn't have to be Deuce all the time in that slot. Rotate all 4 guys. They can all catch, they can all block, they can all run, they can be interchangable in Paytons two back offense. SFIAH
	Super Bowl Championships: New Orleans Saints:1, Carolina:0, Atlanta Chokers: STILL ZERO Only Atlanta choked in an unchokable situation... Life is definitely good.

05-16-2008, 03:15 PM	#2
CantonLegend 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Canton, Ohio Posts: 2,685 Blog Entries: 2	Re: Is pierre tradeable? Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL The problem here is that I always use numbers to back up claims like that. New Orleans Saints Team Encyclopedia - Pro-Football-Reference.com will give you all the Saints stats for any year you like. So let's compare the seasons: the thing about statistics is that they dont always show how a team plays....they show the outcome...but they wont show that a linebacker was man up against reggie or if a safety had to cover him instead...it wont show that the linebacker jumped on a play fake cuz duece is a real threat up the gut...u make very good points using stats and usually i love ppl that back up claims with facts and figures...however in this case....its more about overall value than it is stats....also...with the passing and rushing stats from the past 2 years....i agree we only passed a few more times.....but the run vs pass was different.....meaning...we knew in '06 that we had a guy to run up the middle and pound out those last few yards where as in '07 we didnt have that reassurance....we had to make up for it by passing those 4.5 more times or w/e u said it was....that could've meant the difference between another field goal or a first down etc...do u see where im going with this?....maybe not...maybe im just rambling....do i have a point or am i completely off the wall....i tend to do that sometimes too
	"deal with it or you can go play the saints and get trounced by 30 and you won't have to worry about it."-colin cowherd

05-16-2008, 12:24 AM	#3
dasaints26 100th Post Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 167	Re: Is pierre tradeable? I think it is more realistic that PT will be a member of the Saints than trade bait for a late round pick. Especially if you consider 2 of our 4 RBs in the final years of their careers. I really hope Deuce has one more year left in those surgically repaired knees but I hope for his sake he calls it quits after that so he will be able to walk around and enjoy the rest of his life and not spend it in a wheelchair. I think Steckers one year contract sums up how much he has left in the tank. What has PT done to justify being in the NFL after not being drafted? First he accepted a tryout for the Saints. Other teams also contacted PT but he choose the Saints. Lets see undrafted RB decides to try out for a team with 2 1st round RB and a newly drafted 4th rounder the team traded up to get. PT must have had a little confidence in his ability to think he could come here and make the team in a position that at the time seemed full of depth. When given the opportunity PT has shown he can be a RB at this level. Preseason (I know preseason WTF) PT made us all fans and we all wondered why he wasnt given a shot to make some plays during the year especially when the running disappeared. Well in making the most out of your opportunities as our 4th string RB in your only start of the year congrats to PT as the only Saints RB EVER to rush for 100yds and catch for 100yds in the same game. Is stecker tradeable?
dasaints26 100th Post Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 167

05-16-2008, 08:18 AM	#5
Touchdown Rookie Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 20	Re: Is pierre tradeable? i would trade Bush before i traded Thomas.
Touchdown Rookie Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 20

05-16-2008, 08:28 AM	#6
saintsfan1976 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Atlanta Posts: 10,995 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Is pierre tradeable? Originally Posted by Touchdown i would trade Bush before i traded Thomas. Ha haaaa haaaaa Sure.

05-16-2008, 05:06 AM	#4
hagan714 LB Mentallity Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 15,870 Blog Entries: 68	Re: Is pierre tradeable? Originally Posted by dasaints26 Is stecker tradeable? No he will be to busy training PT to do his job. Heck they can have a 4 year schooling program as far as I am concerned. To me the #3/#4 RB position is in great shape. It is one of the positions I am not worried about. Who knows PT may become the solid #2/#3 we need. But for now I am happy that both are on the team. Why break this marriage up?

05-16-2008, 12:36 PM	#7
Predator Rookie Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 2	Re: Is pierre tradeable? I really believe, that at the price, and since he did show some really good signs last year that even if PT was tradeable, I don't think we would want to. We all hope Deuce returns to the back he has always been, but even if he is 100% healthy the next couple of years, we have to begin looking to the future. PT is a young back and being mentored by Deuce while hopefully getting an increase in playing time could be nothing but a good thing for New Orleans.
Predator Rookie Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 2

05-17-2008, 10:32 AM	#8
phatoosdey Drunkagen Join Date: May 2007 Location: kenner Posts: 356	Re: Is pierre tradeable? so...what you're really trying to say is that we lost in 2007 because our defense was awful?

05-17-2008, 11:58 AM	#9
CantonLegend 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Canton, Ohio Posts: 2,685 Blog Entries: 2	Re: Is pierre tradeable? SFIAH, i actually read all of that....and i didnt say that the defense was good...everybody agrees that our defense was terrible and thats an understatement.....what i did say is that matchups on offense were different having reggie in the slot with duece in the backfield as opposed to just PT in the backfield
	Last edited by CantonLegend; 05-17-2008 at 12:06 PM..

05-17-2008, 06:41 PM	#10
SaintFanInATLHELL The Professor Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Lithonia, GA Posts: 2,783	Re: Is pierre tradeable? Originally Posted by CantonLegend SFIAH, i actually read all of that....and i didnt say that the defense was good...everybody agrees that our defense was terrible and thats an understatement.....what i did say is that matchups on offense were different having reggie in the slot with duece in the backfield as opposed to just PT in the backfield You believe that the matchups are different. But there's very little supporting evidence to support that observation. As I said in another post, Deuce going down moved Bush into the I back position. That was the loss of flexibility. I assert once again with my Chicago game as evidence, that PT23 can be productive in that I back position, and be productive enough to free Bush to go back to being the X factor. SFIAH