FWtex

Many of us have been accused of being bandwagon fans and jumping off the saints bandwagon. I am curious what some folks definition of BANDWAGON FAN is.

A bandwagon fan to me is someone who starts following a team after they begin their winning ways or after some recent event/action. They have no loyalty or connection to the team other than they like something of recent occurance.


If I am wrong in my definition of this please let me know.

lumm0x

No one in here is a bandwagon fan. Why, because win or lose, we are still Saints fans. Furthermore, anyone in here who has stuck with this team through everything, the good and the bad has earned the right to criticize and to question. We are part of the Saints family and the fans are not simply the \"lap dogs\" of the team. They may not listen to our voices but we have earned the right to have them.

jm

I agree with you Tex, I have been a Saints fan 34 seasons , and yes I may get upset with them, but I still pull for them. I have invested in the Sunday ticket since the 2nd year it was offered so I could watch the Saints. Just because I pick them to lose at times it doesn\'t mean I\'m not a fan, I\'m just expressing my opinions. I may be a pessimest but not a bandwagon jumper.
Hey we lost yesterday, and that is that, let\'s move on to next week.

BillyCarpenter1

Actually -- Anyone has the right to criticize the Saints whether you have been a life long fan or just started watching them yesterday. It\'s nothing wrong with criticizing them. Now, that we\'ve got that out of the way -- What I\'m saying is critcizing the team and dooming the team after losing one game is different.

If a person dooms a team after losing one game -- it\'s gonna be kind of hard to support the team if they start winning. When its obvious that a person hates everything about the team -- from the coaching to the QB and right on down the line -- How are going to suddenly start likeing those people. The answer is simple really -- the only reason that person will be supporting the coaches and the players is if they win. Right???









[Edited on 8/9/2003 by BillyCarpenter1]

lumm0x

Billy, has anyone on here stated that they have lost all hope of the season? If they have then yes, they have to eat crow when they come back here. Just because people are displeased with the team\'s performance all preseason and the first game of the regular play doesn\'t mean we have given up hope. It means that we are voicing our opinions at the desperate need for adjustment on both sides of the ball.

Most fans give the coaching staff and players the benefit of the doubt until the season starts, and most have a more optimistic view of potentially good offseason moves. Some fans question the moves, question the decisions, but come game day are still cheering just as loudly. Whether you like a player or not, if he plays for this team you cheer for him when he\'s playing. I hate Jay Bellamy\'s football ability at this poin tin his career. I don\'t know him, so I don\'t personally hate him, but I don\'t think he\'s a capable starter right now. But when he\'s coming in to tackle a player I love him because we need him to make that play. If he doesn\'t consistently make plays, I question the coaching staff for having him on the field. If we constantly have to adjust our defense to minimize the exploitation of his weakness and keep him in there, then I question the front office\'s decision to not opt for a better alternative beforehand and have the foresight to realize he is past his ability to effectively contribute. I wonder why if the fans can see it, why can\'t the coaching staff.

I don\'t think that the season is a write off, and until we are officially eliminated from contention mathematically I will give us as much of a chance as anyone else, but you can\'t possibly think that we can enter every game of the season with this degree of preparation?

It really bothers me to hear the coaches and players talk about how we are going to \"unleash the beast\" or that we didn\'t show anything the preseason and here it comes. I always remember a famous line from a book. It discussed a moment in the old Colts locker room, after a fiery speech from the coach and the defensive captain they looked at Johnny Unitas and said...you\'re turn, anything to say. Unitas stood up and said, \"talk is cheap. Let\'s go.\" and he walked out of the locker room.

I\'m not going to listen to the coaching staff. I always read what they say, but I don\'t hold much value to it. Talking is done on the turf, and we were silent.

FWtex

Well Billy you dodged the question of the post but you have brought another one up. What the heck is dooming the team? Are you saying we all have this power that by posting on this board we put a curse on the team?

Are you as confused as you now appear?

In many posts you call those who criticized the saints Bandwagon fans. Now you are saying it is OK to criticize the team but don\'t doom the team. So are bandwagon fans DOOMERS in your opinion?

Speaking for myself here, I criticize the saints when I believe they are not playing or being coached to the level they should be. That same lack of playing and coaching is causing them to not WIN. If they play to the level they should be playing and the coaching improves so they can win games then I would say we finally are getting what we have asked for. If they win and look like crap doing it, I will be right back here telling it like it is. If they win and look great doing it, i will be here saying that is how it is suppose to be done.

Billy, what I am hearing from you is that the saints played well enough to win at SEA and you are saying if they continue to play like that they will eventually win more games than they lose?

Finally, haven\'t you been told \"hate\" is a strong word? I personally do not dislike any of the players or coaches ... I don\'t know them. I do not like the play I see or the coaching I see from this team. If they correct this problem then I will be very much \"in like\" with them. ... and so will many other saints fans.

BillyCarpenter1

I\'m sorry FWtex -- From reading your posts, I was under the impression that you don\'t believe in or support the coaches and many of the players. I was also under the impression that you didn\'t think the Saints had a chance of going to the playoffs

I now see what you\'re saying. You\'re saying you don\'t really know what\'s going to happen with the Saints this year and until they are elimanted from the playoffs that the coaches and player have your support, but you will continue to criticize until you see what you want? I can live with that..

Sorry for the misunderstanding.

[Edited on 8/9/2003 by BillyCarpenter1]

FWtex

Billy, maybe you should just call this a bad day for yourself and try again tommorow.

Let me state part of my comments again for you.

I criticize the saints when I believe they are not playing or being coached to the level they should be. That same lack of playing and coaching is causing them to not WIN. If they play to the level they should be playing and the coaching improves, so they can win games, then I would sayI finally am getting what I have asked for. If they win and look like crap doing it, I will be right back here telling it like it is. If they win and look great doing it, i will be here saying that is how it is suppose to be done.

I think you may have been referring to Lummox and his comment regarding playoffs and elimination from them.

Billy can you ever answer any one question? I have seen many people respond directly to your questions but I have yet to see you respond in like. what gives? Are we to just assume when you avoid questions that you can\'t answer them without going back on your previous statements?

BillyCarpenter1

FWtex -- I realized a long time ago that many had their minds made up a long time ago. There\'s nothing I\'m going to say that is going to change any of your minds. The only thing that will change y\'alls mind is winning.

I\'m not blind -- I see the same problems y\'all do. You guys didn\'t even need to see the game against Seattle -- y\'all had your minds made up from the preseason games and even before that.

I mean who am I to step in here and say have a little patience. You can say what you want to but it is OBVIOUS that you have written this season off. Anyone who says that the Saints are going to finish 8-8 or 7- 9, have given up. Until that happens I will continue to say that I beleve we have as good of chance as anyone, and will not pretend to KNOW that we don\'t.

There are problems and they are correctable. I just hard time with members giving the impression that all is lost. IMO -- Anyone that is saying that we don\'t have a legit shot of making the playoffs -- doesn\'t understand football. Do you think we have a legit shot of making the playoffs???????

PS -- I understand everyone on here loves the Saints. I know it\'s tough losing and having little hope that things are going to get better. I\'m just the type of person that believes in standing by thier team through the good and the bad. If things go down hill drastically this year -- I\'ll have to reevaluate the whole situation.

FWtex

Billy, I have not and will not say you are not a good saints fan. I only ask for you not to question others allegiance or football knowledge because they do not agree with your view.

I am saying and have been saying the saints have a less than average shot at making the playoffs this year and I will take my football knowledge over many others. Is it impossible for the saints to make the playoffs this year? NO! Even Cincy has as much a chance as the rest of the teams right now.

You have had your mind made up the saints are going to make the playoffs in preseason. So does that make you more knowledgeable then any of us?

Yes there are problems and yes they are correctable. Once someone in saints world starts listening to me and a few others here they can start correcting those problems. Of course I say this laughing and tongue in cheek. lol