OMG - GOODWIN makes PRO-BOWL ahead of Faine???

CantonLegend · 01-21-2010, 05:28 PM

Originally Posted by papz

So many ridiculous points...

Why has Goodwin been a backup for the majority of his career? Look at the guys he's backed up. The man just made it to the ProBowl by votes that were cast by his peers... and yet you still believe he's a bottom 5 center is this league? That statement alone says it all.

the pro bowl is voted on by not only peers, but fans as well

you notice how many more fans we have this year? a lot of those fans are just bandwagon fans and a lot of the votes that goodwin got as well as most of our players, are bandwagon votes

i believe he made the pro bowl because of the success of the team.....not because of his ability as a player

As far as money is concerned, making more money doesn't mean you're the better player.

not necessarily.....but usually you can tell who the better players are by who makes the most money.....you wouldnt expect a good player to make the least and you wouldnt expect a terrible player to make a lot

there is a very good reason why faine was paid so much and goodwin comes a lot cheaper

Now while I feel Faine is the better center, prior to him coming here, he was in Cleveland and really wasn't that good. Not until he played here with Drew, did he start getting recognition in the league.

does anybody in cleveland get the recognition or respect they deserve? the short answer is NO......faine was part of a good line here in new orleans but he was the only bright spot on the offensive line in cleveland.....

his last year in cleveland he helped reuben droughns become the first 1000 yard rusher in new era browns history......even tho you didnt hear of him....i still watched him in cleveland and people that know football were not happy to see him go because we was so good

coming to new orleans didnt make him good....it just made him recognizeable....faine is a top 5 center in the league and he gets paid like it

Now if you're going to ask me who would I rather have right now, Faine or Goodwin? Goodwin... no hesitation. Why? He's a ProBowler; we're 14-3 with the chance to make it to the Superbowl; we've run the ball effectively with him all year long; lastly he cost WAY less than his counterpart.

other than the pro bowl thing, this portion of your post has nothing to do with goodwin......all you are sayin is that you are happy with how our team has played and you wouldnt make any significant changes to the team......in fact....the only part that has to do with goodwin....the pro bowl part.....also doesnt prove that he is better

you probably didnt know that faine was in fact a pro bowler despite all the hate he got from posters here in 2007

This is all so baffling. One day Goodwin... it happened with PT, it could happen for you. One day. Bottom 5... bottom 5. Ridiculous.

because i was wrong about pierre you think im wrong about everybody......

i was man enough to admit how wrong i was about PT.....why wouldnt i do the same thing about goodwin if in fact he did prove me wrong? i dont have any kind of grudge against goodwin.....i want him to play well and when/if he does, i'll give him all the credit he deserves

until then, name me 5 starting centers that are worse than him

papz · 01-21-2010, 06:08 PM

Originally Posted by CantonLegend

the pro bowl is voted on by not only peers, but fans as well

I'm not 100% on this but alternates have nothing to do with the fans voting of the Pro Bowl starters.

you notice how many more fans we have this year? a lot of those fans are just bandwagon fans and a lot of the votes that goodwin got as well as most of our players, are bandwagon votes

From players and coaches right?

i believe he made the pro bowl because of the success of the team.....not because of his ability as a player

I'm sure that's how the coaches and players pick... they go straight to the team with the best record and start selecting all the players on those team... not because they're any good.

not necessarily.....but usually you can tell who the better players are by who makes the most money.....you wouldnt expect a good player to make the least and you wouldnt expect a terrible player to make a lot

My point in this was to point out that more money doesn't mean you're the better player. But obviously good players typically get paid more... but that's not always the case.

there is a very good reason why faine was paid so much and goodwin comes a lot cheaper

Imo, he is the better player but was overpaid by the Bucs in a thin market for centers.

does anybody in cleveland get the recognition or respect they deserve? the short answer is NO......faine was part of a good line here in new orleans but he was the only bright spot on the offensive line in cleveland.....

Yes? Maybe not by you but when Braylon Edwards had that one great year, he was recognized by everyone. When Andra Davis was at the top of his game, I certainly knew who he was. Joe Thomas right now is considered as one of the best tackles in the league. Everyone knew Winslow was a bright young emerging player in the league. I'm quite sure coaches gameplan against Cribbs on Sundays.

his last year in cleveland he helped reuben droughns become the first 1000 yard rusher in new era browns history......even tho you didnt hear of him....i still watched him in cleveland and people that know football were not happy to see him go because we was so good

I know exactly who Droughns is. He was a backup in Denver prior to going to Cleveland. He played some fullback and running back in Denver. He even had a 1,000 yard season there. Let's not pretend you're the only person who knows the guy... I watch a LOT of football. Don't insult my intelligence... "people who know football"... ROFL. As far as I'm concerned, there's 5 people that play on the OL(didn't know I knew that did you!?) Each had an instrumental part in helping him obtaining his second 1,000 yard season... not just Faine.

coming to new orleans didnt make him good....it just made him recognizeable....faine is a top 5 center in the league and he gets paid like it

I'm sure Cleveland felt that way... which is why they decided to trade him being that "top 5" center he was in this league. That makes so much sense don't you agree?

other than the pro bowl thing, this portion of your post has nothing to do with goodwin......all you are sayin is that you are happy with how our team has played and you wouldnt make any significant changes to the team......in fact....the only part that has to do with goodwin....the pro bowl part.....also doesnt prove that he is better

Huh? Did I say he's the better player? Did I even imply that? In fact I've said Faine is better in my opinion. Let me break it down for you... we are playing at a high level right now with Goodwin under center, at a significant fraction of the cost, and he's been recognized by his colleagues as a pretty good center in this league... so right now, I wouldn't have it any other way than have Goodwin on our line. I don't understand how I wrote a whole paragraph about Goodwin yet you say what I wrote has nothing to do with him.

you probably didnt know that faine was in fact a pro bowler despite all the hate he got from posters here in 2007

LOL I was one of Faine's biggest supporters, if not the biggest one, on this board during his days here. Ask Euphoria... lol. Didn't know? Get your nose out the clouds... there are people who actually DO know football around these parts.

because i was wrong about pierre you think im wrong about everybody......

Pierre Thomas, Heath Evans, Jonathan Goodwin, Jason Kyle, etc. There are more... I just don't feel like going over all those threads finding them all.

i was man enough to admit how wrong i was about PT.....why wouldnt i do the same thing about goodwin if in fact he did prove me wrong? i dont have any kind of grudge against goodwin.....i want him to play well and when/if he does, i'll give him all the credit he deserves

Like I said... one day Goodwin, one day.

until then, name me 5 starting centers that are worse than him

I don't feel like playing this game. We're 14-3, have one of the best offensive lines in the league, and our center is a ProBowler. I'm sure you can figure that out on your own.

CantonLegend · 01-22-2010, 12:27 AM

Originally Posted by papz

I'm not 100% on this but alternates have nothing to do with the fans voting of the Pro Bowl starters.

its not just the starters that are voted on by the fans....its the leading vote getters from around the league that get into the pro bowl....the votes count towards starters, backups and reserves depending on who gets the most votes

I know exactly who Droughns is. He was a backup in Denver prior to going to Cleveland. He played some fullback and running back in Denver. He even had a 1,000 yard season there. Let's not pretend you're the only person who knows the guy... I watch a LOT of football. Don't insult my intelligence... "people who know football"... ROFL. As far as I'm concerned, there's 5 people that play on the OL(didn't know I knew that did you!?) Each had an instrumental part in helping him obtaining his second 1,000 yard season... not just Faine.

fwiw the first part of that was about droughns....the other part was referring back to faine....people were not excited to see faine go because he was talented.....but many also believed that bentley was equally as talented and slightly more versatile including myself

i wasnt insulting your football knowledge....just laying out a generic statement about the average football fan not knowing many linemen......including faine......just because people dont hear about linemen, doesnt mean they arent any good.....faine was the only lineman on the browns worth noting during reuben droughns' 1000 yard season and thats why i brought that up

I'm sure Cleveland felt that way... which is why they decided to trade him being that "top 5" center he was in this league. That makes so much sense don't you agree?

good players get traded all the time......the browns felt that bentley would help them more apparently.....the saints sure as hell didnt get faine for no reason......its not always about getting rid of players, sometimes its about rebuilding and faine was part of it.....the saints were getting a proven player that they could help build an offensive line around after they had lost bentley

Huh? Did I say he's the better player? Did I even imply that? In fact I've said Faine is better in my opinion. Let me break it down for you... we are playing at a high level right now with Goodwin under center, at a significant fraction of the cost, and he's been recognized by his colleagues as a pretty good center in this league... so right now, I wouldn't have it any other way than have Goodwin on our line. I don't understand how I wrote a whole paragraph about Goodwin yet you say what I wrote has nothing to do with him.

you are sayin you want goodwin because of how good the team is doing right now....not because goodwin is actually the better player......thats what i was saying....thats what i was summing up so i could better understand where you are comin from

in essence it has very little to do with how goodwin is and a lot more to do with how well the team is playing with the players we have right now

thats not to say we couldnt be better with faine, just saying we are fine right now with goodwin....which can also be debated

Pierre Thomas, Heath Evans, Jonathan Goodwin, Jason Kyle, etc. There are more... I just don't feel like going over all those threads finding them all.

lol i admitted PT was good.....heath evans was exactly what everybody said he was goin to be.....he is a receiver out of the backfield.....now on injured reserve.....however, the running back that ran behind our former fullback was second in the league in rushing yards

i wasnt wrong about heath evans at all....i knew what he was....but he wasnt what i wanted.....i wanted us to continue to pound the ball and mike karney is the better of the 2 at run blocking....that is a completely different conversation tho

jason kyle? our long snapper? really? i was wrong about him? i said something along the lines of "you dont fix what ain't broken"......getting rid of our long snapper was a mistake purely because of the continuity we lost......i know our kickin game is significantly worse this year than it was last season

im not going to put that on kyle, but there is something very wrong with our kicking game

I don't feel like playing this game. We're 14-3, have one of the best offensive lines in the league, and our center is a ProBowler. I'm sure you can figure that out on your own.

you dont feel like doin the work to prove me wrong.....which is fine because we've gone back and forth on this more than anybody here and neither of us is ever going to sway without some sort of obvious change in goodwin's play

the difference is that i am more than willing to admit when i am wrong and like i said before......when im wrong about goodwin i'll admit it.....but im not wrong about goodwin yet

im well aware of how you feel about my ability to evaluate talent but there isnt another poster here who talks down to me about that the way you do......i feel very confident in my ability to locate our playmakers, not at the skill positions, but at the silent positions.....the players behind the scenes that dont get credit for doin the dirty work

players like karney, stecker, houser, faine etc etc

i take pride in being able to watch those players because most people are so dazzled by drew throwing it down the field to realize what actually took place in that play to make his TD passes so easy

01-21-2010, 05:28 PM	#1
CantonLegend 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Canton, Ohio Posts: 2,685 Blog Entries: 2	Re: OMG - GOODWIN makes PRO-BOWL ahead of Faine??? Originally Posted by papz So many ridiculous points... Why has Goodwin been a backup for the majority of his career? Look at the guys he's backed up. The man just made it to the ProBowl by votes that were cast by his peers... and yet you still believe he's a bottom 5 center is this league? That statement alone says it all. the pro bowl is voted on by not only peers, but fans as well you notice how many more fans we have this year? a lot of those fans are just bandwagon fans and a lot of the votes that goodwin got as well as most of our players, are bandwagon votes i believe he made the pro bowl because of the success of the team.....not because of his ability as a player As far as money is concerned, making more money doesn't mean you're the better player. not necessarily.....but usually you can tell who the better players are by who makes the most money.....you wouldnt expect a good player to make the least and you wouldnt expect a terrible player to make a lot there is a very good reason why faine was paid so much and goodwin comes a lot cheaper Now while I feel Faine is the better center, prior to him coming here, he was in Cleveland and really wasn't that good. Not until he played here with Drew, did he start getting recognition in the league. does anybody in cleveland get the recognition or respect they deserve? the short answer is NO......faine was part of a good line here in new orleans but he was the only bright spot on the offensive line in cleveland..... his last year in cleveland he helped reuben droughns become the first 1000 yard rusher in new era browns history......even tho you didnt hear of him....i still watched him in cleveland and people that know football were not happy to see him go because we was so good coming to new orleans didnt make him good....it just made him recognizeable....faine is a top 5 center in the league and he gets paid like it Now if you're going to ask me who would I rather have right now, Faine or Goodwin? Goodwin... no hesitation. Why? He's a ProBowler; we're 14-3 with the chance to make it to the Superbowl; we've run the ball effectively with him all year long; lastly he cost WAY less than his counterpart. other than the pro bowl thing, this portion of your post has nothing to do with goodwin......all you are sayin is that you are happy with how our team has played and you wouldnt make any significant changes to the team......in fact....the only part that has to do with goodwin....the pro bowl part.....also doesnt prove that he is better you probably didnt know that faine was in fact a pro bowler despite all the hate he got from posters here in 2007 This is all so baffling. One day Goodwin... it happened with PT, it could happen for you. One day. Bottom 5... bottom 5. Ridiculous. because i was wrong about pierre you think im wrong about everybody...... i was man enough to admit how wrong i was about PT.....why wouldnt i do the same thing about goodwin if in fact he did prove me wrong? i dont have any kind of grudge against goodwin.....i want him to play well and when/if he does, i'll give him all the credit he deserves until then, name me 5 starting centers that are worse than him
	"deal with it or you can go play the saints and get trounced by 30 and you won't have to worry about it."-colin cowherd

01-21-2010, 06:08 PM	#2
papz Problem? Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: New Orleans Posts: 11,793	Re: OMG - GOODWIN makes PRO-BOWL ahead of Faine??? Originally Posted by CantonLegend the pro bowl is voted on by not only peers, but fans as well I'm not 100% on this but alternates have nothing to do with the fans voting of the Pro Bowl starters. you notice how many more fans we have this year? a lot of those fans are just bandwagon fans and a lot of the votes that goodwin got as well as most of our players, are bandwagon votes From players and coaches right? i believe he made the pro bowl because of the success of the team.....not because of his ability as a player I'm sure that's how the coaches and players pick... they go straight to the team with the best record and start selecting all the players on those team... not because they're any good. not necessarily.....but usually you can tell who the better players are by who makes the most money.....you wouldnt expect a good player to make the least and you wouldnt expect a terrible player to make a lot My point in this was to point out that more money doesn't mean you're the better player. But obviously good players typically get paid more... but that's not always the case. there is a very good reason why faine was paid so much and goodwin comes a lot cheaper Imo, he is the better player but was overpaid by the Bucs in a thin market for centers. does anybody in cleveland get the recognition or respect they deserve? the short answer is NO......faine was part of a good line here in new orleans but he was the only bright spot on the offensive line in cleveland..... Yes? Maybe not by you but when Braylon Edwards had that one great year, he was recognized by everyone. When Andra Davis was at the top of his game, I certainly knew who he was. Joe Thomas right now is considered as one of the best tackles in the league. Everyone knew Winslow was a bright young emerging player in the league. I'm quite sure coaches gameplan against Cribbs on Sundays. his last year in cleveland he helped reuben droughns become the first 1000 yard rusher in new era browns history......even tho you didnt hear of him....i still watched him in cleveland and people that know football were not happy to see him go because we was so good I know exactly who Droughns is. He was a backup in Denver prior to going to Cleveland. He played some fullback and running back in Denver. He even had a 1,000 yard season there. Let's not pretend you're the only person who knows the guy... I watch a LOT of football. Don't insult my intelligence... "people who know football"... ROFL. As far as I'm concerned, there's 5 people that play on the OL(didn't know I knew that did you!?) Each had an instrumental part in helping him obtaining his second 1,000 yard season... not just Faine. coming to new orleans didnt make him good....it just made him recognizeable....faine is a top 5 center in the league and he gets paid like it I'm sure Cleveland felt that way... which is why they decided to trade him being that "top 5" center he was in this league. That makes so much sense don't you agree? other than the pro bowl thing, this portion of your post has nothing to do with goodwin......all you are sayin is that you are happy with how our team has played and you wouldnt make any significant changes to the team......in fact....the only part that has to do with goodwin....the pro bowl part.....also doesnt prove that he is better Huh? Did I say he's the better player? Did I even imply that? In fact I've said Faine is better in my opinion. Let me break it down for you... we are playing at a high level right now with Goodwin under center, at a significant fraction of the cost, and he's been recognized by his colleagues as a pretty good center in this league... so right now, I wouldn't have it any other way than have Goodwin on our line. I don't understand how I wrote a whole paragraph about Goodwin yet you say what I wrote has nothing to do with him. you probably didnt know that faine was in fact a pro bowler despite all the hate he got from posters here in 2007 LOL I was one of Faine's biggest supporters, if not the biggest one, on this board during his days here. Ask Euphoria... lol. Didn't know? Get your nose out the clouds... there are people who actually DO know football around these parts. because i was wrong about pierre you think im wrong about everybody...... Pierre Thomas, Heath Evans, Jonathan Goodwin, Jason Kyle, etc. There are more... I just don't feel like going over all those threads finding them all. i was man enough to admit how wrong i was about PT.....why wouldnt i do the same thing about goodwin if in fact he did prove me wrong? i dont have any kind of grudge against goodwin.....i want him to play well and when/if he does, i'll give him all the credit he deserves Like I said... one day Goodwin, one day. until then, name me 5 starting centers that are worse than him I don't feel like playing this game. We're 14-3, have one of the best offensive lines in the league, and our center is a ProBowler. I'm sure you can figure that out on your own.
	Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but some abuse the privilege. All little common sense goes a long way.

01-22-2010, 12:27 AM	#3
CantonLegend 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Canton, Ohio Posts: 2,685 Blog Entries: 2	Re: OMG - GOODWIN makes PRO-BOWL ahead of Faine??? Originally Posted by papz I'm not 100% on this but alternates have nothing to do with the fans voting of the Pro Bowl starters. its not just the starters that are voted on by the fans....its the leading vote getters from around the league that get into the pro bowl....the votes count towards starters, backups and reserves depending on who gets the most votes I know exactly who Droughns is. He was a backup in Denver prior to going to Cleveland. He played some fullback and running back in Denver. He even had a 1,000 yard season there. Let's not pretend you're the only person who knows the guy... I watch a LOT of football. Don't insult my intelligence... "people who know football"... ROFL. As far as I'm concerned, there's 5 people that play on the OL(didn't know I knew that did you!?) Each had an instrumental part in helping him obtaining his second 1,000 yard season... not just Faine. fwiw the first part of that was about droughns....the other part was referring back to faine....people were not excited to see faine go because he was talented.....but many also believed that bentley was equally as talented and slightly more versatile including myself i wasnt insulting your football knowledge....just laying out a generic statement about the average football fan not knowing many linemen......including faine......just because people dont hear about linemen, doesnt mean they arent any good.....faine was the only lineman on the browns worth noting during reuben droughns' 1000 yard season and thats why i brought that up I'm sure Cleveland felt that way... which is why they decided to trade him being that "top 5" center he was in this league. That makes so much sense don't you agree? good players get traded all the time......the browns felt that bentley would help them more apparently.....the saints sure as hell didnt get faine for no reason......its not always about getting rid of players, sometimes its about rebuilding and faine was part of it.....the saints were getting a proven player that they could help build an offensive line around after they had lost bentley Huh? Did I say he's the better player? Did I even imply that? In fact I've said Faine is better in my opinion. Let me break it down for you... we are playing at a high level right now with Goodwin under center, at a significant fraction of the cost, and he's been recognized by his colleagues as a pretty good center in this league... so right now, I wouldn't have it any other way than have Goodwin on our line. I don't understand how I wrote a whole paragraph about Goodwin yet you say what I wrote has nothing to do with him. you are sayin you want goodwin because of how good the team is doing right now....not because goodwin is actually the better player......thats what i was saying....thats what i was summing up so i could better understand where you are comin from in essence it has very little to do with how goodwin is and a lot more to do with how well the team is playing with the players we have right now thats not to say we couldnt be better with faine, just saying we are fine right now with goodwin....which can also be debated Pierre Thomas, Heath Evans, Jonathan Goodwin, Jason Kyle, etc. There are more... I just don't feel like going over all those threads finding them all. lol i admitted PT was good.....heath evans was exactly what everybody said he was goin to be.....he is a receiver out of the backfield.....now on injured reserve.....however, the running back that ran behind our former fullback was second in the league in rushing yards i wasnt wrong about heath evans at all....i knew what he was....but he wasnt what i wanted.....i wanted us to continue to pound the ball and mike karney is the better of the 2 at run blocking....that is a completely different conversation tho jason kyle? our long snapper? really? i was wrong about him? i said something along the lines of "you dont fix what ain't broken"......getting rid of our long snapper was a mistake purely because of the continuity we lost......i know our kickin game is significantly worse this year than it was last season im not going to put that on kyle, but there is something very wrong with our kicking game I don't feel like playing this game. We're 14-3, have one of the best offensive lines in the league, and our center is a ProBowler. I'm sure you can figure that out on your own. you dont feel like doin the work to prove me wrong.....which is fine because we've gone back and forth on this more than anybody here and neither of us is ever going to sway without some sort of obvious change in goodwin's play the difference is that i am more than willing to admit when i am wrong and like i said before......when im wrong about goodwin i'll admit it.....but im not wrong about goodwin yet im well aware of how you feel about my ability to evaluate talent but there isnt another poster here who talks down to me about that the way you do......i feel very confident in my ability to locate our playmakers, not at the skill positions, but at the silent positions.....the players behind the scenes that dont get credit for doin the dirty work players like karney, stecker, houser, faine etc etc i take pride in being able to watch those players because most people are so dazzled by drew throwing it down the field to realize what actually took place in that play to make his TD passes so easy
	"deal with it or you can go play the saints and get trounced by 30 and you won't have to worry about it."-colin cowherd Last edited by CantonLegend; 01-22-2010 at 12:37 AM..