New Orleans Saints uncertain about decisions of Pierre Thomas, Jahri Evans, others
 

New Orleans Saints uncertain about decisions of Pierre Thomas, Jahri Evans, others
By The Times-Picayune

By James Varney and Mike Triplett

The New Orleans Saints enter the final hours of restricted free agency Thursday with a handful of players still unsigned, although none of them appear to be another team's crosshairs

With the deadline for restricted free agent to sign offer sheets elsewhere coming at midnight Thursday, the Saints remain uncertain about the decisions of running back Pierre Thomas, guard Jahri Evans, wide receiver Lance Moore, safety Roman Harper, linebacker Marvin Mitchell and wide receiver Courtney Roby.

Some of them may well join safeties Chris Reis and Usama Young, who signed their offers from the Saints, according to announcements from their agents Wednesday.

Others, like Thomas, Evans and Moore, could be similar to offensive tackle Jammal Brown -- veterans who would have been unrestricted free agents this offseason were it not for the expiration of the league's collective bargaining agreement.

Brown said Tuesday he will not sign his tender Thursday and will not report next week for the Saints scheduled conditioning sessions.
"We'll assess all that tomorrow and cross that bridge when we come to it, " Thomas' agent, Lamont Smith, said. "We'll continue to have discussions with people, and we'll see what tomorrow brings."
Smith also declined to comment on whether Thomas plans to attend next week's sessions.

The Saints offered Thomas a one-year, $1.684 million qualifying contract last month. If he signs that deal, he would get a significant raise from the $460,000 he earned last season.

In addition, both sides have sent clear signals they are interested in a more lucrative long-term extension, the sort of deal that some teams are perhaps shying away from. The 2010 season will be without a salary cap, but should a new agreement be signed, the cap will kick in in 2011.

"I definitely want to work up a long-term deal with the Saints; I definitely want to get that done," Thomas said at a recent appearance. "but it's up to them. It's a business, and it's up to them. I'm putting my resume out there, showing what I can do. And you know, I love the New Orleans, I love the fans. But it's really not up to me. And now it's up to them if they want to keep me."
And Thomas also predicted he will participate in all drills.
"I'm going to show up, " he said. "Just because that's my attitude and personality."
Young joins several members of the Super Bowl XLIV champions who will return to the team. The Saints had offered a salary of just more than $1.1 million, and would have received a third-round pick as compensation if he signed with another team. Since being drafted out of Kent State, Young has been a backup in the secondary and a valuable member of the special teams.
Reis, who gained a measure of Saints immortality when he recovered the onside kick to begin the second half of Super Bowl XLIV, also signed his tender for $1.1 million.

Agents for Moore and Roby either declined comment or did not respond to calls and e-mails, leaving their status up in the air. Moore has been tendered at roughly $1.76 million and carries a second round draft pick compensation, and Roby was offered $1.17 million and would bring a third round pick.

Should any of these restricted free agents sign a last-day offer from another team, the Saints would have seven days to match it, meaning such an announcement would not preclude them returning to New Orleans.
That seems to be the case with players like Brown and Evans. Each of them have been offered one-year deals, Brown for $3.6 million and Evans for $3.1 million. Any team that obtained them would owe the Saints both a first and a third round draft pick.

New Orleans Saints uncertain about decisions of Pierre Thomas, Jahri Evans, others | - NOLA.com

Re: New Orleans Saints uncertain about decisions of Pierre Thomas, Jahri Evans, others
 

Evans and Thomas, must be priorities. Although, it's 10 oclock pacific time right now, so that means midnight in the easy.... What happens if they don't sign before the deadline?

Re: New Orleans Saints uncertain about decisions of Pierre Thomas, Jahri Evans, others
 

They better,,,Loomis!!

Re: New Orleans Saints uncertain about decisions of Pierre Thomas, Jahri Evans, others
 

this team can't take any more loses to it's nucleus than it's has so far and repeat as champs, can it? All these guys need to be retained in my opinion. Let's win three superbowls like the Patriots before we start to dilute it's nucleus and fall into obscurity... um, like the Patriots.

I'm a little worried about letting Bell and Fujita go so far....

I've got all the respect for Loomis and Payton to play business and balances, but I don't know to what degree cockyness doesn't effect your decision making post SuperBowl season? time will tell [gulp]

Re: New Orleans Saints uncertain about decisions of Pierre Thomas, Jahri Evans, others
 

I really like Thomas but he is replaceable to me. Evans however is crtical to get back.

Re: New Orleans Saints uncertain about decisions of Pierre Thomas, Jahri Evans, others
 

ZOINKS !!!!!!!!!! that's crazy talk right there. Let me guess, "it was Reggie Bush's intimidation as a Decoy" that allowed Pierre to keep the season rolling as he continually converted on huge plays, make something out of nothing, refuse to go down, know how to find holes and proved to be the teams most consistent and most potent threat out of the backfield. What does that leave us with? The hit or miss Reggie Bush, and little proven Hamilton?

Pierre Thomas epitomizes the term "a keeper" in the NFL to me....

Bush showed some moments of flashiness and dedication, but showed an equal amount of games and outings where he was completely ineffective and spent the majority of games tugging his shoulder pads behind Payton.

This last season rode on the back of Pierre.... what do you gain from replacing that? What we know is Pierre is no nonsense, no gamble, gonna get it done productivity. Minus him, we're left with Bush, Hamilton and whoever else comes their way free agency or draft.... in other words, gamble. Are we back to gambling again.... after we've got proven guys?

Thing is, I can't help but sense a delusional favoritism from some fans that are bent on seeing Bush take over the show and I'm afraid it's just not going to happen. To some, Pierre represents an obstacle in the way of the Reggie Show (I don't think everyone can deny this, because it's obvious... so spare me). To me, I just want to Saints to roll. When Pierre carries the load and performs more than would be considered, it's like... he's cool, we should keep him. Bush exhibits a few flashes of effectiveness (following ineffectiveness) and everyone does backflips... could go back to dropping the ball mid exchange in the backfield and nothings nothing ? It's a simple fact of favoritism, and seeing what you want to see.

I liked the tandem of Pierre / Bush to conclude our season. BUT, I wouldn't bet that the same Bush shows up in following years. So, keep him, appease the masses, but if you lose the guys that carried the load, so goes the success.

Re: New Orleans Saints uncertain about decisions of Pierre Thomas, Jahri Evans, others
 

I see you're a Bushwhacker, thats fine with me. I think Bush is used pretty much as he should right now. He should get a mix of carries, catches and returns but not be featured in the backfield.

Thomas is good but not great, he tends to get overrated I think. Hes a solid allaround but doesn't really stand out to me. But really the point I wanted to make is that I think the offensive line is much more important than any RB we have. Thats where our succes starts and ends on offence. Without them no protection for Brees (who then would know what Archie felt like) and no holes for our backs to run trough.

Re: New Orleans Saints uncertain about decisions of Pierre Thomas, Jahri Evans, others
 

Awesomeness there guy. I'm sorry, did I say anything untrue there?

If Thomas is not Great to you, what is? Bush? I'm serious... what's you're solution?

I simply asked.... you lose Pierre, where does that leave you? where do you go from there? Bell is already gone. We're short on real running backs, are we not?

Ironically, the way you described Pierre fits Bush to a "T" with the exception of Bush being solid all around as he's proven to be bonk taking carries behind the line.

it's not a popularity contest you know.... ah, irony!

Here's another thought.... how about we address getting a real punt return guy. Bush was the worst in the league wasn't he?

Re: New Orleans Saints uncertain about decisions of Pierre Thomas, Jahri Evans, others
 

first........reggie was gameplanned around this year

teams stopped kicking deep to him......i remember him having a lot of fair catches this season because punters wouldnt punt deep and give him the room to return it.......i think he got frustrated and tried to make something out of nothing a lot more than he should've.....the beauty is that we kept him healthy, and we got decent field position because they needed to kick it shorter

secondly......the offensive line is the most important part of any run game......running backs are almost interchangeable with good offensive lines

look at guys like thomas jones, LT, emmitt smith, etc etc...the list goes on and on

they have good seasons when they are behind a great offensive line....then after awhile the system changes or the linemen move on and their production drops

"experts" blame this on age.......people that know what they are talking about realize that it is in fact the offensive line, the coach, the system, or a combination that causes the decrease in production

Re: New Orleans Saints uncertain about decisions of Pierre Thomas, Jahri Evans, others
 

Chill dude and read what I'm saying. Am I writing "lets get rid of Thomas"? No. Am I writing "Bush is better than Thomas"? No. I'm saying I find the OL to be more important. I think a whole lot of RBs could perform very well behind the OL we have if we can just keep it together.

I start to believe you didn't watch the games. Our blocking on punt return this year was horrible the whole time. The very few times somebody got picked up Bush had decent returns. It would not have mattered if we had Cribbs, Hester or whoever back there. If you have a guy in your face right away you won't get far.

Re: New Orleans Saints uncertain about decisions of Pierre Thomas, Jahri Evans, others
 

OK, regardless of this master plan that the world has to make Reggie suck... here's the thing, Great players DO make something out of nothing. Players we keep holding out high hopes for, keep "trying" to make something out of nothing.

secondly, the didn't kick deep excuse / theory is typical desperate BS, but hardly true. He wasn't running up for returns. it's the typical rhetoric that viewers recycle every time he get's shut down returning.

What I remember is Reggie going down by the first guy on the scene, often by shoestring tackles in most cases. Are we really going to do this... we're going to have a debate based of of excuses?

Reggie is towards the bottom of the list on NFL PR's for Fair Catches.

and I don't even want to have a debate with you if you have any inclination that Pierre's abilities and his success was due credit to the effectiveness of the offensive line.... Brees, no doubt, but Pierre is all playmaker.

If you're theory is true wouldn't Bush be a great RB behind our offensive line? How is it that he self implodes behind our line, yet Pierre is gonna get his yards? Your theories are so full of double standards it's dizzying.

those three running backs you mentioned are about as good as it get's for the NFL. they weren't the product of good lines, they are pure playmakers and performed under all circumstances. they simply got older and accumulated injuries.... you don't know THIS!!??

citing Pierre as an average product of his O line and crediting Emmitt, LT's and Jones success on the effectiveness of their O-lines, YET, you're here to defend Reggie Bush makes me wonder how you even see well enough to type with those blinders on?

Re: New Orleans Saints uncertain about decisions of Pierre Thomas, Jahri Evans, others
 

Was Pierre's success the result of Browns presence?

About Bush, all I hear is this: "Everytime Bush had no opposition or an open lane towards the EZ, he did good. When someone came free on him, he couldn't slip a 1 on 1 open field tackle."

Re: New Orleans Saints uncertain about decisions of Pierre Thomas, Jahri Evans, others
 

Go look in the mirror and repeat the quoted line above...

Re: New Orleans Saints uncertain about decisions of Pierre Thomas, Jahri Evans, others
 

Guys, in overall production, since he came into the league, compared to other backs, that were NO WHERE NEAR, as high profile as he was coming out of college, Bush has NOT lived up to the hype. Not even close. And this isn't something new from me, I have been on his butt since 07, waiting for him to be a consistent threat. Now, notice the keyword there, "constistent". That's my problem with him, he isn't consistent in his abilities. He also has a string of excuses, when it comes to WHY he hasn't consistently produced. And it always seems to be some mysterious injury, that no one finds out about, until the season is over.

I don't mind paying a guy, that you can count on week in, and week out. Drew Brees comes to mind. Does Drew have bad games? Yes, but he has more good, or great ones, than bad. Go back over this past season, and tell me how many good, or great games Reggie had. I guarantee you the number will be small. He's not worth the 8 million, but, it's an uncapped year, and they will pay it. But I guarantee you this, right here and now, if he doesn't live up to that potential this year? He will either have to restructure, or his butt will be gone. Period.

Re: New Orleans Saints uncertain about decisions of Pierre Thomas, Jahri Evans, others
 

Oh yeah, and just to be clear on what I consider consistency, is 100 yard games on the ground. I think, I can count on one hand, how many of those Reggie has had in his entire career. How many times has Reggie ran for more than a hundred yard games IN A ROW? Never, that I remember.

Now, if what they say is true, and in the West Coast Offense, the pass opens up the run, then why is Drew throwing for what 300, 400 yards, where as Bush is only gaining 50 or 60 on the ground. Now, before you say that he shares the load with other RBs, yes, I know, but that being true, then that means Reggie is NOT a "feature" back, which means he certainly doesn't deserve more money than a Ray Rice, or a Thomas Jones.

That's MY point. He wants 8 million a year? For what? Punt returns? Get serious gentlemen....

Re: New Orleans Saints uncertain about decisions of Pierre Thomas, Jahri Evans, others
 

Apparently he's convinced the right people. I think if you go back and look at Reggie's all-purpose yards you'll find him consitently over 100 when healthy. If you get a hundred plus by doing a lot of things good, to me it is at least as good as someone who gets that by just doing one thing over and over.

I think most people just miss-out on Reggie's value...can't see it for whatever reason. All I know is that I told my sister-in-law a few years back that if we didn't get Reggie when we had the opportunity that I would no longer be a Saints fan.

You can say what you want, but here it is about 3 years later and we now have a Lombardi and that is something I thought I'd never see. Am I glad that Benson listened to me and went out and got Reggie? Do I have to answer that?

Re: New Orleans Saints uncertain about decisions of Pierre Thomas, Jahri Evans, others
 

I hear ya LB, but what about Brees? I think for the most part, that Lombardi should have his freaking name on it. Game plans are game plans, and good strategy is a must, but Brees finds the open man, and gets them the ball. That makes him the MVP, and keeps him the MVP.

As far as Reggie goes, as a "featured" back, in a West Coast system, I can remember many great offensive teams, that had exceptional RBs, doing basically the same things as Reggie only better. Marshall Faulk, Brian Westbrook, hell even Julius Jones when he was in Dallas, all had similar job descriptions, but ALL have had better success than Reggie. What I'm saying is that he doesn't deserve this payday. And as far as PT goes, well, I think we all remember that touchdown he scored in the superbowl.... I can't remember the one Reggie scored off hand.....

Re: New Orleans Saints uncertain about decisions of Pierre Thomas, Jahri Evans, others
 

No argument from me about Brees...or Pt, for that matter. I guess what I'm trying to say is that Reggie was part of the greatest gumbo recipe ever for Saints fans. He was kinda like the shrimp. Drew was the rue...PT the crab meat...Colston was the okra...etc. You get what I'm driving at, right?

You see, I don't care how much Reggie makes. I believe that he brings a certain "star" quality to a team that never had one before. I admit that he has had a little trouble living-up to it, but then I remember some of his highlights and realize he has done things that no Saint has ever done before. He just doesn't do them every play like some people expect him to do.

In closing I reiterate. I'm happy with exactly what happened and don't care how much they make or made in the past or will in the future. I'm just happy Reggie is a Saint...and that's mostly the topic (or what it veered to...I hope that wasn't my fault...lol) and why I didn't comment on the others.

Re: New Orleans Saints uncertain about decisions of Pierre Thomas, Jahri Evans, others
 

thanks for clarifying everything.....

That first paragraph says it all... like I've said most fans have just as much pride wrapped up in Reggie as the Saints have money. Logical arguments will never be had.

As far as Benson.... I didn't know you had that much influence over him... shucks, I'd have been telling you what you want to hear had I known. But then again it was Payton and Loomis going out and getting him, Benson just handed the blank check.

Re: New Orleans Saints uncertain about decisions of Pierre Thomas, Jahri Evans, others
 

...and that should count for nothing, right.

Re: New Orleans Saints uncertain about decisions of Pierre Thomas, Jahri Evans, others
 

Overall I can say, that I am very happy with the end result myself. And yes, Reggie has done some amazing things over his career, but IMO, not enough to warrant "star status", I guess. I honestly believe that this 8 million dollar pay out, will only happen one year, and he will restructure in 2011, or he will probably be gone.

Oh by the way... Love the avatar. :)

Re: New Orleans Saints uncertain about decisions of Pierre Thomas, Jahri Evans, others
 

I agree...he may be gone. For all we know, Payton may be gone...and he might bring Drew with him. Nobody knows the future.

You know, if TC has another bad year up in NY...:)

Re: New Orleans Saints uncertain about decisions of Pierre Thomas, Jahri Evans, others
 

Aww B.S.! You aren't about the "Gumbo", you're about Reggie Bush! You're just talking out of your a$$ now.

Case in point.....
What were your comments when we let Bell go? That he wasn't that Great? That he's expendable, replaceable? Did you get all analytical about what piece of Gumbo Bell was to the teams success? Convenient argument you've got going there now that offers whatever validity Reggie provides as a player or ingredient.

then you're going to argue about Reggie offering a certain "star" quality to the team. That's about s far a reach as they come. Think about it, think about the guys that make up this team... do you think they are elevated because they see Reggie and his internet hoe pop up online when they go home? Seriously, these guys. This rooster isn't about that.

And apparently you weren't around when we drafted Ricky Williams. Don't know if you remember, but he was kinda considered a star and believe it or not, he drew more constant media attention. The star value is only for your own personal gratification.

The character of this team isn't defined or influenced by Reggies star status.... It thrives off of the humble and professional persona's like Brees, Pierre, Colston, Vilma, etc.

Re: New Orleans Saints uncertain about decisions of Pierre Thomas, Jahri Evans, others
 

Let's just put it this way. I'm as much all about Reggie Bush as you are all about trashing him.

Re: New Orleans Saints uncertain about decisions of Pierre Thomas, Jahri Evans, others
 

Oh come on LB, you're reaching now....:)

Payton and Brees will be here until the dome collapses. Bush leaving, I think the majority of fans could see, but Brees? There would be a riot! Brees had a 5000 yard season. Bush hasn't had a 1000 yard season since he got into the pros.... Not really comparable bro... :)

Re: New Orleans Saints uncertain about decisions of Pierre Thomas, Jahri Evans, others
 

C'mon, dude. Didn't you see the ":)"?

I'm just saying, it's hard to predict what's going to happen after next year...and if you don't think Payton is capable of going on to bigger and better things...and money doesn't talk and bs doesn't walk in the NFL..."cough-cough" Darren Sharper "cough-cough"...




Oh...and btw...did a little checking...hope these figures are correct.


Rushing Rcvg PR Total AP Yds

2006 562 742 216 1520

2007 581 417 12 1010

2008 404 440 270 1114

2009 390 335 130 855

So...as you can see...last year, being injured, was the only year he didn't get over 1000 all-purpose yds., which to me is just as good as a guy who gets them by pounding the ball over and over. JMO, though.

Re: New Orleans Saints uncertain about decisions of Pierre Thomas, Jahri Evans, others
 

My bad..... I'm kind of tired...

I agree with you, money does make the NFL world go round, I see Payton being like our Belichick in the long run. He hasn't had what anyone would consider a bad year since his hiring. And I just see Brees retiring as a Saint.

Re: New Orleans Saints uncertain about decisions of Pierre Thomas, Jahri Evans, others
 

We need to keep both PT and Bush. Both have qualities that fit into our current offensive plan. Difference between the two money wise is that PT was undrafted and signed for a lower paycheck and Bush being drafted has his deal. So now the back and forth deal making between the two begin. PT is worth more than what he is currently getting but he is not going to get more than Bush.

As for one being more replacable than the other I don't see it.

Re: New Orleans Saints uncertain about decisions of Pierre Thomas, Jahri Evans, others
 

this is too funny...lol...

Re: New Orleans Saints uncertain about decisions of Pierre Thomas, Jahri Evans, others
 

So what happened any news?

Re: New Orleans Saints uncertain about decisions of Pierre Thomas, Jahri Evans, others
 

Not that I know, but it's not like the April 15th deadline is of any real significance to us signing them. The passing of that deadline just means that other teams can't sign them.

In other words, the time for the scenario where another team comes in and signs them, then we must match or lose the player is over.

Re: New Orleans Saints uncertain about decisions of Pierre Thomas, Jahri Evans, others
 

Wow! You must really hate Reggie Bush. It seems like the vast majority of your posts are simply bashing & trashing him. Sounds like you're in minority amongst Saints fans and it actually gets pretty old. Give it a rest! :bng:

Re: New Orleans Saints uncertain about decisions of Pierre Thomas, Jahri Evans, others
 

Reggie's game seriously depends on everybody else executing correctly a good game plan. We have a terrible special teams coach. imho Reggie is not an every down back but does his job effectively (when he's healthy) Would he be as good in another system? I doubt it. Is he good here? Heck yes. Is he worth the money? He makes plays and creates mismatches all over the field.....yeah, yeah, I know more of the same old rhetoric. I like Reggie a lot. Do I love him?........errr no. Viva La Saints.

Re: New Orleans Saints uncertain about decisions of Pierre Thomas, Jahri Evans, others
 

Will the every player in the NFL be an unrestricted FA next year? These one year contracts come in bundles every day of the week.

Re: New Orleans Saints uncertain about decisions of Pierre Thomas, Jahri Evans, others
 

prove it.....but more than that....show how many less times we put him back there compared to guys like lance moore and courtney roby etc.....reggie wasnt our only punt returner this season

lmao.....you have no idea what i said and further more have no idea what you are talking about

i defended reggies punt returns.....not his running......however if you want to get into it

reggie averaged 5.6 ypc and had 30 less carries than the year before.....but managed only 15 yards less rushing than in'08

oh yea.....and reggie is a 97 speed on madden.....that proves it

Re: New Orleans Saints uncertain about decisions of Pierre Thomas, Jahri Evans, others
 

Here's Reggies "Fair Catches":

2009 NFL Player Returning Stats - National Football League - ESPN

Nine on the season, tied at #26 fewest in the NFL.

And for sh!ts and giggles, why don't you check out where he sits check out his AVG:

2009 NFL Player Returning Stats - National Football League - ESPN

now, how are you going to further change the subject.... or even dig yourself deeper into excuses. Have no idea what "I'm" talking about? How clever of an argument you've got there.... Oh, where are Lance Moore on Cortney Roby on that list?

... this coming from someone who is going to tell me some of the greatest RB's in NFL's history was result of their O line?

I'm going to tell you right now. If you are going to bring "excuses" into an argument to back up a players capabilities or lack of.... it's going nowhere. See, IMAO, I think you sound like a tool repeating typical Reggie hype rhetoric. See, he was "supposed" to be our great PR guy right. Carried all the hype and constant exaggeration (otherwise known as hope). In reality (where I live), he sucks majorly at as a PR guy... plain and simple... and if it wasn't for his major hype, major salary and lack of skill sets to offer otherwise, he wouldn't even be returning punts with the display he's put on. I don't enjoy the fact that he sucks, but I can't bring my self to the brain numbing state of accepting it and even more, defending him based of the premise of excuses.

IMAO, you're a tool incapable of thinking for yourself.

Re: New Orleans Saints uncertain about decisions of Pierre Thomas, Jahri Evans, others
 

ouch.....im gonna go cry and get back to you in a second once ive dried my eyes

Re: New Orleans Saints uncertain about decisions of Pierre Thomas, Jahri Evans, others
 

To be honest I would trade a few of these guys. Next year they will be gone anway. Moore, Brown and Roby woulkd be expendable to me. we could pick up some nice picks for those 3. I see a rd2, rd3 and 2 rd5's if we traded those 3.

Re: New Orleans Saints uncertain about decisions of Pierre Thomas, Jahri Evans, others
 

But Brown went to the probowl...lol

Re: New Orleans Saints uncertain about decisions of Pierre Thomas, Jahri Evans, others
 

Brown proved expendable and replaceable.... although Bushrod was vulnerable at times, he started to hold it down well enough over time.

Moore is a heck of a weapon and I feel was underused. He needs to be capable of staying healthy for extended periods of time. What was it, a hamstring always ailing him? If and when healthy, it's adds a nice threat over the middle... he can constantly be used like Wes Welker or Dallas Clark. Not to mention, he adds another option as a PR guy. If there's more to his health, he could prove expendable. Also, it got to a point where he seemed like he was in the Payton doghouse and excluded for unforseen reasons... who knows?

Roby, with the depth of our WR's is just a luxury, but he's also the teams best ST's return guy. I think for this reason alone, he should be retained. I also, for the life of me couldn't figure out why he wasn't utilized as Punt Returner as well.... especially if he's not being used in the offensive playbook. If that's all they're gonna use him for and he's proven good, consistently good, why not let him return punts? Another overlooked fact is that he was probably the best ST's coverage guy. It's something that get's taken for granted, but he was almost always the first guy on the spot when covering kicks. He's a heck of a gunner.

Saying that, I think that there are replacements out there for these guys skill sets, but it baffles me to no end how people are just as quick to abandon a proven commodity and look to the drafts for replacement players. Is the gamble where the excitements at? I thought the goal of a franchise is get all of the pieces in place to make up champions.... then hold it together and mesh from that?

The fact is, Roby and Moore may not be all pro players, but even still, they are better than the majority of the guys that come in off drafts. The gamble is gone, we know they're good. They can do everything asked of them... in that sense, it doesn't get better. Why would you be so quick to just dilute the formula that created a S.B. winning team?