Former Saints Get The Last Laugh!

BigBull45 · 09-30-2003, 12:34 PM

I bet that Jake Delhomme,Normand Hand,Charlie Clemmons,Sammy Knight,Kyle Turley,and a host of other former Saints are thanking their lucky stars that Haslett let them have their freedom.They're probably seeing what's going on in this organization and saying; thank god I'm not caught up in that mess.Delhomme gets to start for a fiery young team that is emerging as one of the better all around teams this year.Hand gets to start on a 4-0 Seahawks team that is also looking great.Charlie Clemmons gets to use his strengths in Houston,and that team will only get better with time.Sammy Knight is playing well on a Dolphins team that could easily make the playoffs.Look at Willie Roaf.He's doing great in KC.Kyle Turley is holding his own with the Rams.Marc Bulger,who Haslett didn't feel was worthy,is lighting it up for the Rams.The other Rickey Williams is making his presence felt in Indy.I could go on with a host of other talent that Haslett has shown the door.Meanwhile Haslett's current roster is beat down and lacking confidence in this organization.I bet that there are players on this roster saying to themselves right now;I hope Coach shows me the door at the end of this season.This is what happens when you give someone with an ego the size of Mt. Everest control over who comes and who goes.Who made Haslett a hall of fame coach?He has to earn that honor.Haslett is just a beginner in this league,and he's not starting off very well.I don't see many players wanting to win for him.He seems to Isolate himself from the team.He thinks of himself as God and everyone else is just his pupils.Most players won't say how they really feel about an organization or coach for fear of backlash.If only we could see inside their minds and read what they are really thinking.I bet it's not too good.Haslett has got to go to this team and put himself back down on there level instead of sitting up on the throne.I think he's lost this team and there may not be any way to get them back.I hope he's learning a good lesson about how to treat your players.They are not a bunch of machines,they do have human feelings.If Haslett is shown the door at the end of the season,he will probably take what he has learned and have more success elsewhere.Meanwhile he has got some real soul searching to do.This is one of the many internal problems with the Saints organization.We need change for the better,and not some marketing ploy to get the fans hyped up.We need a football oriented GM like Jim Finks was,or like Randy Mueller was.Haslett would have been much better under Mueller.Loomis gave Haslett too much control over talent issues.Once we get that GM,we can start to build a real organization.I just don't know if Benson is the right type of owner to get this done and keep it together.

Any thoughts from the rest of you guys?

BillyCarpenter1 · 09-30-2003, 12:42 PM

I have a thought for ya Bull..........

Judging by that little smiley face on this posts, this seems to make you happy? I don\'t know about you, but when the Saints lose, it\'s hard to stomach. Do you consider this constuctive critcizm? Or, do you just like to gloat about the mistakes that you feel Haslett has made? We all know the players that are no longer here. We also know they ain\'t coming back. Another thing, if Jim Haslett left this team today, it is much better than when he got here. So, bash away at Haslett, but the man cares about this team and I for one have to give the man some credit.

tweeky · 09-30-2003, 01:04 PM

Delhomme gets to start for a fiery young team that is emerging as one of the better all around teams this year.
Hand gets to start on a 4-0 Seahawks team that is also looking great.
Charlie Clemmons gets to use his strengths in Houston,and that team will only get better with time.
Sammy Knight is playing well on a Dolphins team that could easily make the playoffs.
Look at Willie Roaf.He\'s doing great in KC.
Kyle Turley is holding his own with the Rams.
Marc Bulger,who Haslett didn\'t feel was worthy,is lighting it up for the Rams.
The other Rickey Williams is making his presence felt in Indy.I could go on with a host of other talent that Haslett has shown the door.
Any thoughts from the rest of you guys?

Theres so much wrong with this post i don\'t know where to begin...

Delhomme is not playing well, is only average, and is benefitting from a great D and Steven Davis.

Hand is already missing time with injuries and I\'ll bet week 8 he\'s a back-up.

Clemmons is about to lose his job, They are not happy with him.

Knight has been criticized by the fans, the press, and coaches. Where do you get playing well from? His late pick on a desperation pass?

Roaf: Yea, he\'s doing well but was he worth paying 12 zillion dollars for at a time we were devastated by cap problems? We signed about 6 players for what it would have cost us to keep him. But I\'m sure he\'s happy.

Turley? Doing well? Fans and the press are using the B word with him -BUST! And thats at right tackle, the position he said he\'s too good to play anymore. \"I\'m a left tackle, and want to be paid like one\" Very weak big bull, very weak. He\'s being rag-dolled every game. Ask Warner if Turley\'s doing well.

Rickey Williams? He has one good game against a defense with over 1/2 their starters out? Gimme a break dude. Curtis Keaton would have looked good that night.

If you\'re gonna bring that crap in here, you better expect to be called out on it.

\"I\'m a truth addict, Aw shiit I got a head rush!!\"

BigBull45 · 09-30-2003, 01:13 PM

Billy I was not bashing this team or Haslett! I\'m just seeking solutions, which is something people don\'t seem to be trying to do.I think Haslett would be better under a good strong front office.I even found an article from WWL after I started this thread,that stated the same thing.I\'ll put the link at the bottom if you\'d like to see it.I\'m tired of people enabling a bad situation.They say let\'s talk about the QB,or let\'s talk about the defense.How about we talk about where it all starts the front office.The owners and executives are responsible for the product on the field and that\'s the bottom line.I\'ll bet my bottom dollar that there will be a change once again with this organization after this season.The thing that worries me is that I don\'t think Benson has a clue as to how to run an organization.He\'s got business savvy,but no football savvy.Everything seems to be about marketing to him.He needs to do what\'s best in terms of building a winning organization and not just hyping the fans up,so they will buy tickets.I don\'t care if he hires John Dough to run the front office as long as John Dough knows what he\'s doing,and has the skills to put together a winning organization.That\'s what will bring a stable fan base.Living for the moment trying to get the publics money now is only going to continue to lead to a turnover in management a coaching every three or four years.That\'s not going to bring winning football to the Superdome.We need leadership from the top down.

Heres that link:

http://www.wwltv.com/sports/leezurik....419e1ea5.html

BillyCarpenter1 · 09-30-2003, 01:28 PM

Bull --

Point taken. There are so many members here that just state the samething over and over again that it just turns into a bashing party. I agree with some of what you are saying.

BigBull45 · 09-30-2003, 01:30 PM

Tweeky maybe the aforementioned players are not playing at all pro status but they are holding there own.My point was they are all in happier situations.and all have a chance to see the post season.That\'s something they wouldn\'t have had here.It\'s not because of their play it\'s because of this organization.If I had my way we would start from the ground up and build a football power house.Start with an excellent GM,and go from there.Let him hire the coaches,office personnel,and talent scouts.That way if someone is incompetent in their job,they can be reprimandeded in the hopes that they will improve.
Then with an excellent scouting staff,we can start to build a football team that has talent(both mentally and physically),and chemistry.I would not travel around begging people to buy tickets on the promise that this is the year we win it all.It will take time ,but people will start to buy tickets based on production,not promises.Benson needs to learn that you have to sacrifice sometimes to reap rewards later on.He\'s too busy trying to get the bank now,and it\'s not working.There is much incompetence in the front office and on the field and nobody to deal with it!

BlackandBlue · 09-30-2003, 01:37 PM

For Bigbull45:

Good stuff, tweeky, keep it up.

tweeky · 09-30-2003, 01:43 PM

OK I see your point But I disagree with it. From a talent standpoint I think we have better atheletes than we used to.
We have made a couple of mistakes. Glover and Fields are my top two, but I don\'t think our personnel decisions are any worse than other franchises. But I will admit I wish we would have tried harder to land Spikes or that guy from the Colts (his name escapes me).
On the list of things wrong with this team I think personnell moves are way down the list.

1-Injuries on Defense
2-Offensive gameplans (Haz and MartzCarthy)
3-Player motivation and preparedness (Haslett to blame)
4-Defensive gameplans (Haz and Venturi)
5-Defensive players execution (see 1 for reason/excuse)
6-Offensive players execution (Offensive coaching staff)
7-Player turnover (so many new guys)
8-Personnell decisions (Haz and Loomis)
9-Payroll & front office performance (Benson)

BigBull45 · 09-30-2003, 02:03 PM

If you are satisfied with a reshuffling every three or four years,I guess the owner and front office isn\'t a big problem.If you look at all the teams having success,you\'ll find that they have a strong front office.Maybe the fans are satisfied with this way of doing things,but I for one am not.I would much rather have a team that builds a tradition of putting a top notch product on the field year in and year out.I don\'t like the business of firing a GM because he won\'t be your puppet.I truly believe that Loomis and Haslett have been trained to be yes men,and Haslett has trained his players to be the same way.Running a football organization where you rule by fear is not a way to do things.Benson should be talking to people and getting advice from other owners and GM\'s as to how to turn his organization around.Haslett fired Mackey Shillstone and brought in some guy to get these players in shape,and now they are all going down like flies.I wonder what Mackey did to piss the king off?I\'m telling you,changing the way this organization does business would be a big improvement.Otherwise we will never get it together.We will spend the rest of our lives angry about how the Saint\'s found a way to lose again.

[Edited on 30/9/2003 by BigBull45]

TheOriginalSwampdog · 09-30-2003, 02:58 PM

Tweeky, get a life, man. What he means to say is, Turley is 2-1, Knight, 2-1, Clemons. 2-1, Hand 3-0 and JAKE IS 3-0 THIS YEAR! Since when do you have to be a superstar to be a winner? Or perhaps you\'ve never heard of Trent Dilfer. But you\'re right man. I\'d much rather have the BUMS we have right now with all their talent and getting shalacked every week. You need

[Edited on 30/9/2003 by JOESAM2002]

09-30-2003, 12:34 PM	#1
BigBull45 100th Post Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 128	Former Saints Get The Last Laugh! I bet that Jake Delhomme,Normand Hand,Charlie Clemmons,Sammy Knight,Kyle Turley,and a host of other former Saints are thanking their lucky stars that Haslett let them have their freedom.They're probably seeing what's going on in this organization and saying; thank god I'm not caught up in that mess.Delhomme gets to start for a fiery young team that is emerging as one of the better all around teams this year.Hand gets to start on a 4-0 Seahawks team that is also looking great.Charlie Clemmons gets to use his strengths in Houston,and that team will only get better with time.Sammy Knight is playing well on a Dolphins team that could easily make the playoffs.Look at Willie Roaf.He's doing great in KC.Kyle Turley is holding his own with the Rams.Marc Bulger,who Haslett didn't feel was worthy,is lighting it up for the Rams.The other Rickey Williams is making his presence felt in Indy.I could go on with a host of other talent that Haslett has shown the door.Meanwhile Haslett's current roster is beat down and lacking confidence in this organization.I bet that there are players on this roster saying to themselves right now;I hope Coach shows me the door at the end of this season.This is what happens when you give someone with an ego the size of Mt. Everest control over who comes and who goes.Who made Haslett a hall of fame coach?He has to earn that honor.Haslett is just a beginner in this league,and he's not starting off very well.I don't see many players wanting to win for him.He seems to Isolate himself from the team.He thinks of himself as God and everyone else is just his pupils.Most players won't say how they really feel about an organization or coach for fear of backlash.If only we could see inside their minds and read what they are really thinking.I bet it's not too good.Haslett has got to go to this team and put himself back down on there level instead of sitting up on the throne.I think he's lost this team and there may not be any way to get them back.I hope he's learning a good lesson about how to treat your players.They are not a bunch of machines,they do have human feelings.If Haslett is shown the door at the end of the season,he will probably take what he has learned and have more success elsewhere.Meanwhile he has got some real soul searching to do.This is one of the many internal problems with the Saints organization.We need change for the better,and not some marketing ploy to get the fans hyped up.We need a football oriented GM like Jim Finks was,or like Randy Mueller was.Haslett would have been much better under Mueller.Loomis gave Haslett too much control over talent issues.Once we get that GM,we can start to build a real organization.I just don't know if Benson is the right type of owner to get this done and keep it together. Any thoughts from the rest of you guys?
BigBull45 100th Post Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 128

09-30-2003, 12:42 PM	#2
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209	Former Saints Get The Last Laugh! I have a thought for ya Bull.......... Judging by that little smiley face on this posts, this seems to make you happy? I don\'t know about you, but when the Saints lose, it\'s hard to stomach. Do you consider this constuctive critcizm? Or, do you just like to gloat about the mistakes that you feel Haslett has made? We all know the players that are no longer here. We also know they ain\'t coming back. Another thing, if Jim Haslett left this team today, it is much better than when he got here. So, bash away at Haslett, but the man cares about this team and I for one have to give the man some credit.
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209

09-30-2003, 01:04 PM	#3
tweeky 500th Post Join Date: May 2003 Location: South Alabama Posts: 779	Former Saints Get The Last Laugh! Delhomme gets to start for a fiery young team that is emerging as one of the better all around teams this year. Hand gets to start on a 4-0 Seahawks team that is also looking great. Charlie Clemmons gets to use his strengths in Houston,and that team will only get better with time. Sammy Knight is playing well on a Dolphins team that could easily make the playoffs. Look at Willie Roaf.He\'s doing great in KC. Kyle Turley is holding his own with the Rams. Marc Bulger,who Haslett didn\'t feel was worthy,is lighting it up for the Rams. The other Rickey Williams is making his presence felt in Indy.I could go on with a host of other talent that Haslett has shown the door. Any thoughts from the rest of you guys? Theres so much wrong with this post i don\'t know where to begin... Delhomme is not playing well, is only average, and is benefitting from a great D and Steven Davis. Hand is already missing time with injuries and I\'ll bet week 8 he\'s a back-up. Clemmons is about to lose his job, They are not happy with him. Knight has been criticized by the fans, the press, and coaches. Where do you get playing well from? His late pick on a desperation pass? Roaf: Yea, he\'s doing well but was he worth paying 12 zillion dollars for at a time we were devastated by cap problems? We signed about 6 players for what it would have cost us to keep him. But I\'m sure he\'s happy. Turley? Doing well? Fans and the press are using the B word with him -BUST! And thats at right tackle, the position he said he\'s too good to play anymore. \"I\'m a left tackle, and want to be paid like one\" Very weak big bull, very weak. He\'s being rag-dolled every game. Ask Warner if Turley\'s doing well. Rickey Williams? He has one good game against a defense with over 1/2 their starters out? Gimme a break dude. Curtis Keaton would have looked good that night. If you\'re gonna bring that crap in here, you better expect to be called out on it. \"I\'m a truth addict, Aw shiit I got a head rush!!\"
	Whether we agree or disagree; its all for Him.

09-30-2003, 01:13 PM	#4
BigBull45 100th Post Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 128	Former Saints Get The Last Laugh! Billy I was not bashing this team or Haslett! I\'m just seeking solutions, which is something people don\'t seem to be trying to do.I think Haslett would be better under a good strong front office.I even found an article from WWL after I started this thread,that stated the same thing.I\'ll put the link at the bottom if you\'d like to see it.I\'m tired of people enabling a bad situation.They say let\'s talk about the QB,or let\'s talk about the defense.How about we talk about where it all starts the front office.The owners and executives are responsible for the product on the field and that\'s the bottom line.I\'ll bet my bottom dollar that there will be a change once again with this organization after this season.The thing that worries me is that I don\'t think Benson has a clue as to how to run an organization.He\'s got business savvy,but no football savvy.Everything seems to be about marketing to him.He needs to do what\'s best in terms of building a winning organization and not just hyping the fans up,so they will buy tickets.I don\'t care if he hires John Dough to run the front office as long as John Dough knows what he\'s doing,and has the skills to put together a winning organization.That\'s what will bring a stable fan base.Living for the moment trying to get the publics money now is only going to continue to lead to a turnover in management a coaching every three or four years.That\'s not going to bring winning football to the Superdome.We need leadership from the top down. Heres that link: http://www.wwltv.com/sports/leezurik....419e1ea5.html
BigBull45 100th Post Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 128	See yall at the dome on sunday !

09-30-2003, 01:28 PM	#5
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209	Former Saints Get The Last Laugh! Bull -- Point taken. There are so many members here that just state the samething over and over again that it just turns into a bashing party. I agree with some of what you are saying.
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209

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09-30-2003, 01:30 PM	#6
BigBull45 100th Post Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 128	Former Saints Get The Last Laugh! Tweeky maybe the aforementioned players are not playing at all pro status but they are holding there own.My point was they are all in happier situations.and all have a chance to see the post season.That\'s something they wouldn\'t have had here.It\'s not because of their play it\'s because of this organization.If I had my way we would start from the ground up and build a football power house.Start with an excellent GM,and go from there.Let him hire the coaches,office personnel,and talent scouts.That way if someone is incompetent in their job,they can be reprimandeded in the hopes that they will improve. Then with an excellent scouting staff,we can start to build a football team that has talent(both mentally and physically),and chemistry.I would not travel around begging people to buy tickets on the promise that this is the year we win it all.It will take time ,but people will start to buy tickets based on production,not promises.Benson needs to learn that you have to sacrifice sometimes to reap rewards later on.He\'s too busy trying to get the bank now,and it\'s not working.There is much incompetence in the front office and on the field and nobody to deal with it!
BigBull45 100th Post Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 128	See yall at the dome on sunday !

09-30-2003, 01:37 PM	#7
BlackandBlue Kinder, gentler Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: dirty south Posts: 3,889	Former Saints Get The Last Laugh! For Bigbull45: Good stuff, tweeky, keep it up.

09-30-2003, 01:43 PM	#8
tweeky 500th Post Join Date: May 2003 Location: South Alabama Posts: 779	Former Saints Get The Last Laugh! OK I see your point But I disagree with it. From a talent standpoint I think we have better atheletes than we used to. We have made a couple of mistakes. Glover and Fields are my top two, but I don\'t think our personnel decisions are any worse than other franchises. But I will admit I wish we would have tried harder to land Spikes or that guy from the Colts (his name escapes me). On the list of things wrong with this team I think personnell moves are way down the list. 1-Injuries on Defense 2-Offensive gameplans (Haz and MartzCarthy) 3-Player motivation and preparedness (Haslett to blame) 4-Defensive gameplans (Haz and Venturi) 5-Defensive players execution (see 1 for reason/excuse) 6-Offensive players execution (Offensive coaching staff) 7-Player turnover (so many new guys) 8-Personnell decisions (Haz and Loomis) 9-Payroll & front office performance (Benson)
	Whether we agree or disagree; its all for Him.

09-30-2003, 02:03 PM	#9
BigBull45 100th Post Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 128	Former Saints Get The Last Laugh! If you are satisfied with a reshuffling every three or four years,I guess the owner and front office isn\'t a big problem.If you look at all the teams having success,you\'ll find that they have a strong front office.Maybe the fans are satisfied with this way of doing things,but I for one am not.I would much rather have a team that builds a tradition of putting a top notch product on the field year in and year out.I don\'t like the business of firing a GM because he won\'t be your puppet.I truly believe that Loomis and Haslett have been trained to be yes men,and Haslett has trained his players to be the same way.Running a football organization where you rule by fear is not a way to do things.Benson should be talking to people and getting advice from other owners and GM\'s as to how to turn his organization around.Haslett fired Mackey Shillstone and brought in some guy to get these players in shape,and now they are all going down like flies.I wonder what Mackey did to piss the king off?I\'m telling you,changing the way this organization does business would be a big improvement.Otherwise we will never get it together.We will spend the rest of our lives angry about how the Saint\'s found a way to lose again. [Edited on 30/9/2003 by BigBull45]
BigBull45 100th Post Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 128	See yall at the dome on sunday !

09-30-2003, 02:58 PM	#10
TheOriginalSwampdog 100th Post Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 215	Former Saints Get The Last Laugh! Tweeky, get a life, man. What he means to say is, Turley is 2-1, Knight, 2-1, Clemons. 2-1, Hand 3-0 and JAKE IS 3-0 THIS YEAR! Since when do you have to be a superstar to be a winner? Or perhaps you\'ve never heard of Trent Dilfer. But you\'re right man. I\'d much rather have the BUMS we have right now with all their talent and getting shalacked every week. You need [Edited on 30/9/2003 by JOESAM2002]