Pierre Thomas is the Saints best back & a true fan favorite

strato · 05-24-2010, 01:22 AM

Originally Posted by VillainAgain

all these money arguments are unproductive, if your not cutting checks STFU... I could understand if reggie was pulling a charles grant then you could complain but if you truly are saints fans and watch the games you can see reggie's value, his contract is a product of being selected #2 overall.

+1 for u exactly how i feel...

SaintPauly · 05-24-2010, 02:12 PM

I'm just curious. Did Deuce make any where near, what Bush is making, in his entire career as a Saint? He wasn't a number 2 pick, but he was first round, and a better RB in all facets of the game. And I'm tired of this BS, that "Reggie won us a ring." You guys act like he single handedly, went out, and won it by himself, with no help from anyone. I will say this, and I don't care if you agree or not. Thomas is WAY better on screen plays than Reggie. For all of his athleticism, he sure has a hard time following blocks, and finding open holes. But whatever, he'll be gone next year anyway, and we can finally be done with this debate once and for all.

And Canton, you are going to have to refresh my "old fart" memory, of which starting elite RBs, that you remember returning punts.... I've watched football since 78, and I can't remember any star RBs, that were on permanent punt return duty, once they established themselves as starting RBs..... In fact, I can't think of one that's in the league right now.

Oh, and one more thing, I believe it was our DEFENSE, that bailed his butt out, in the NFC Championship game, when he kept muffing punts.

He is NOT a consistently elite player guys. He has flashes, and maybe one good game, every five. He has NEVER in my recollection, put together two one hundred yard ground games, since he got here, and how many seasons has he had over a thousand yards rushing? Never. I don't wanna hear "all purpose" crap, I don't wanna hear, "he's not that kind of player". If that's true, then change his gd position name, because if that's the case he's NOT a running back. Call him a WR, or make up something else. Dalton Hilliard was more productive in the ground game!

I don't care about the money aspect. I'm just tired of the Bush apologists in here, blowing him up to something he isn't, and never will be.

SAINT_MICHAEL · 05-24-2010, 02:47 PM

Originally Posted by HintOfLogic

Did I say that?.....

Yes you did...

"It's not that complicated and y'all are being too sensitive. We are overpaying for Bush and can't afford the much needed and worth it Sharper.... why is it tragic to compare the two together? I just can't stand reading about salary limits preventing Sharpers return, knowing how much Reggie is robbing the saints for..... don't know how y'all can, but that's you .....sometimes, ignorance is bliss!"

HintOfLogic 04-09-2010, 04:11 PM

CantonLegend · 05-24-2010, 07:31 PM

Originally Posted by saintpaul25

And Canton, you are going to have to refresh my "old fart" memory, of which starting elite RBs, that you remember returning punts.... I've watched football since 78, and I can't remember any star RBs, that were on permanent punt return duty, once they established themselves as starting RBs..... In fact, I can't think of one that's in the league right now.

leon washington
maurice jones drew
darren sproles
reggie bush
brian westbrook

just to name a few that play now

but i was talking about in years past

guys like gale sayers
johnny roland
brian mitchell(all time leader in punt return yardage)

gandhi1007 · 05-24-2010, 08:19 PM

Originally Posted by CantonLegend

leon washington
maurice jones drew
darren sproles
reggie bush
brian westbrook

just to name a few that play now

but i was talking about in years past

guys like gale sayers
johnny roland
brian mitchell(all time leader in punt return yardage)

Of the above mentioned current RB's, which are you considering "elite" & worthy of "elite" RB salary????

gandhi1007 · 05-24-2010, 08:21 PM

Originally Posted by saintpaul25

I'm just curious. Did Deuce make any where near, what Bush is making, in his entire career as a Saint? He wasn't a number 2 pick, but he was first round, and a better RB in all facets of the game. And I'm tired of this BS, that "Reggie won us a ring." You guys act like he single handedly, went out, and won it by himself, with no help from anyone. I will say this, and I don't care if you agree or not. Thomas is WAY better on screen plays than Reggie. For all of his athleticism, he sure has a hard time following blocks, and finding open holes. But whatever, he'll be gone next year anyway, and we can finally be done with this debate once and for all.

And Canton, you are going to have to refresh my "old fart" memory, of which starting elite RBs, that you remember returning punts.... I've watched football since 78, and I can't remember any star RBs, that were on permanent punt return duty, once they established themselves as starting RBs..... In fact, I can't think of one that's in the league right now.

Oh, and one more thing, I believe it was our DEFENSE, that bailed his butt out, in the NFC Championship game, when he kept muffing punts.

He is NOT a consistently elite player guys. He has flashes, and maybe one good game, every five. He has NEVER in my recollection, put together two one hundred yard ground games, since he got here, and how many seasons has he had over a thousand yards rushing? Never. I don't wanna hear "all purpose" crap, I don't wanna hear, "he's not that kind of player". If that's true, then change his gd position name, because if that's the case he's NOT a running back. Call him a WR, or make up something else. Dalton Hilliard was more productive in the ground game!

I don't care about the money aspect. I'm just tired of the Bush apologists in here, blowing him up to something he isn't, and never will be.

AMEN, brother......AMEN!!!! You sir, have hit the nail on the head.

SaintPauly · 05-24-2010, 09:22 PM

Originally Posted by CantonLegend

leon washington
maurice jones drew
darren sproles
reggie bush
brian westbrook

just to name a few that play now

but i was talking about in years past

guys like gale sayers
johnny roland
brian mitchell(all time leader in punt return yardage)

Ok, first off, Sproles hasn't been an every down back, since he got in the league. He was a third down back, behind LT, and he certainly wasn't making more money than LT. We will see how many punts he returns this year, if he is the feature back.

Westbrook has had how many concussions? How many complete seasons has he played? Nuff said. Feature back yes. Retiring because of it, yes, most definately.

Jones-Drew, is the only one on this list, that I would consider elite, at this point, and if you look at his ground production this past season, he FINALLY had a 1000 yards on the ground, because his return duties were actually limited. If you look at his return yards, compared to previous years, he only had 312 I believe.

Now, let me get to names I would consider "elite". Chris Johnson, Matt Forte, Stephen Jackson, Thomas Jones. I don't think any of those guys are returning punts bro. I also never remember seeing Emmit Smith, Walter Payton, or Roger Craig, pulling punt duties either, after they established themselves as feature backs. Bush, is NOT a feature back, and not even in the same league with any of those guys.

Besides Sayers bro, I don't remember any of those other names you mentioned off the top of my head.

I would trade Bush, for a healthy, in his prime Deuce McCallister, any day of the week, and twice on Sunday. And I wouldn't have a problem paying him 8 million dollars either. But, that's just me. I haven't drank the Kool Aid on Bush I guess.

HintOfLogic · 05-25-2010, 02:54 AM

Punt Return vs. Expendable Back debate.....

Reggie is ONLY returning punts because he proved a let down as a "featured" back.... thus (aside from monetary commitments) is that much more expendable. And spare me the "he's just such a threat he's just got to return punts" because that's just a pure delusion. Aside from my constant frustration watching Reggie almost always being out of sync which what to do and when while returning... fair catching when a lane space and a lane is available, not fair catching with "d" breathing down his throat, muffing, etc... just check the stats, he SUCKS! See where he sits among leagues other PR guys stats. Michael Lewis made a ton of TD's and also consistently, YET he ALSO almost always was atop the league with Yards per Return avg. This means, when he wasn't making rogue TD's, he was getting 20, 30, 40 yd returns, regularly.... unlike Reggie, who's few and far between TD's paired with a TON of returns for losses, muffs, fumbles.... etc. ..have more than gratified the eager Bush fanatic who dismiss all the below par play for the one per year highlight reel moment.

Does anyone here REALLY believe that if Reggie was producing like everyone (don't double talk now, EVERYONE) thought he would, a'la Tomlinson, T. Jones, etc.... that he would still be returning punts? If so, you don't understand the game. His allocation to full-time PR is the direct result of his insignificance in the rushing game.

On that note..... say Reggie becomes unavailable.... like an unnecessary injury sustained during PR duties. What do you think happens to Sean Payton's gameplan??? shall we discuss? I recall a handful of games where Reggie was put into the gameplan ineffectively to find himself pulled early on and found himself tugging at his shoulder pads behind Payton the remainder of the games... and this was last year, our superbowl run year.

HintOfLogic · 05-25-2010, 02:56 AM

Originally Posted by strato

+1 for u exactly how i feel...

Originally Posted by VillainAgain

all these money arguments are unproductive, if your not cutting checks STFU... I could understand if reggie was pulling a charles grant then you could complain but if you truly are saints fans and watch the games you can see reggie's value, his contract is a product of being selected #2 overall.

so, without checking.... I assume you had no comments in regards to resigning Sharper and at what price was reasonable... right?

HintOfLogic · 05-25-2010, 03:24 AM

Originally Posted by SAINT_MICHAEL

Yes you did...

"It's not that complicated and y'all are being too sensitive. We are overpaying for Bush and can't afford the much needed and worth it Sharper.... why is it tragic to compare the two together? I just can't stand reading about salary limits preventing Sharpers return, knowing how much Reggie is robbing the saints for..... don't know how y'all can, but that's you .....sometimes, ignorance is bliss!"

HintOfLogic 04-09-2010, 04:11 PM

I've re-read what I posted, quoted about half a dozen times..... not only are you paraphrasing, or chopping a small snippet of my whole, large argument out, but even still.... it just reiterates my point you questioned in the first place:

"..... I complained that it makes no sense that the majority of posters were getting vocal and opinionated about Sharper wanting "too much" money along with what "they" thought was too much. I found it hypocritical (at the least) that all of the concerns for money vs. value when Reggie is set to be the highest paid RB in the NFL. And I questioned, would resigning Sharper be such a big deal if Reggie wasn't such a hit on the wallet?"

My point was PLAIN AND SIMPLE, I couldn't stand hearing all the B&G knowledgeable.... popping up with their concerns for how much money the (int leading, HOF headed, pro-bowl) safety Sharper was seeking meanwhile the very same vocal people are and were deliberately disconcerned with the fact that Reggie Bush (proven limited) was set to be the highest paid RB and even highest paid Saint.

I ASSURE YOU, If I thought that Reggie's salary was an final hindrance to Sharper getting resigned.... I would have come right out and said it. Do I not seem direct enough to you? My point was with unnecessary vocal concerns for money for one guy, but blatant lack of concern for the next guys.... you know that! But thanks for reading my post anyways

05-24-2010, 01:22 AM	#51
strato Banned Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: "Little Ole Town in Tejas" Posts: 7,586	Re: Pierre Thomas is the Saints best back & a true fan favorite Originally Posted by VillainAgain all these money arguments are unproductive, if your not cutting checks STFU... I could understand if reggie was pulling a charles grant then you could complain but if you truly are saints fans and watch the games you can see reggie's value, his contract is a product of being selected #2 overall. +1 for u exactly how i feel...

05-24-2010, 02:12 PM	#52
SaintPauly Senior Citizen Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Gulfport, MS Posts: 3,180 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Pierre Thomas is the Saints best back & a true fan favorite I'm just curious. Did Deuce make any where near, what Bush is making, in his entire career as a Saint? He wasn't a number 2 pick, but he was first round, and a better RB in all facets of the game. And I'm tired of this BS, that "Reggie won us a ring." You guys act like he single handedly, went out, and won it by himself, with no help from anyone. I will say this, and I don't care if you agree or not. Thomas is WAY better on screen plays than Reggie. For all of his athleticism, he sure has a hard time following blocks, and finding open holes. But whatever, he'll be gone next year anyway, and we can finally be done with this debate once and for all. And Canton, you are going to have to refresh my "old fart" memory, of which starting elite RBs, that you remember returning punts.... I've watched football since 78, and I can't remember any star RBs, that were on permanent punt return duty, once they established themselves as starting RBs..... In fact, I can't think of one that's in the league right now. Oh, and one more thing, I believe it was our DEFENSE, that bailed his butt out, in the NFC Championship game, when he kept muffing punts. He is NOT a consistently elite player guys. He has flashes, and maybe one good game, every five. He has NEVER in my recollection, put together two one hundred yard ground games, since he got here, and how many seasons has he had over a thousand yards rushing? Never. I don't wanna hear "all purpose" crap, I don't wanna hear, "he's not that kind of player". If that's true, then change his gd position name, because if that's the case he's NOT a running back. Call him a WR, or make up something else. Dalton Hilliard was more productive in the ground game! I don't care about the money aspect. I'm just tired of the Bush apologists in here, blowing him up to something he isn't, and never will be.
	What's popular is not always right, and what's right is not always popular..... Last edited by SaintPauly; 05-24-2010 at 02:19 PM..

05-24-2010, 02:47 PM	#53
SAINT_MICHAEL 100th Post Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 446	Re: Pierre Thomas is the Saints best back & a true fan favorite Originally Posted by HintOfLogic Did I say that?..... Yes you did... "It's not that complicated and y'all are being too sensitive. We are overpaying for Bush and can't afford the much needed and worth it Sharper.... why is it tragic to compare the two together? I just can't stand reading about salary limits preventing Sharpers return, knowing how much Reggie is robbing the saints for..... don't know how y'all can, but that's you .....sometimes, ignorance is bliss!" HintOfLogic 04-09-2010, 04:11 PM
SAINT_MICHAEL 100th Post Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 446

05-24-2010, 07:31 PM	#54
CantonLegend 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Canton, Ohio Posts: 2,685 Blog Entries: 2	Re: Pierre Thomas is the Saints best back & a true fan favorite Originally Posted by saintpaul25 And Canton, you are going to have to refresh my "old fart" memory, of which starting elite RBs, that you remember returning punts.... I've watched football since 78, and I can't remember any star RBs, that were on permanent punt return duty, once they established themselves as starting RBs..... In fact, I can't think of one that's in the league right now. leon washington maurice jones drew darren sproles reggie bush brian westbrook just to name a few that play now but i was talking about in years past guys like gale sayers johnny roland brian mitchell(all time leader in punt return yardage)

05-24-2010, 08:19 PM	#55
gandhi1007 Part Time Pimp Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 1,967	Re: Pierre Thomas is the Saints best back & a true fan favorite Originally Posted by CantonLegend leon washington maurice jones drew darren sproles reggie bush brian westbrook just to name a few that play now but i was talking about in years past guys like gale sayers johnny roland brian mitchell(all time leader in punt return yardage) Of the above mentioned current RB's, which are you considering "elite" & worthy of "elite" RB salary????

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05-24-2010, 08:21 PM	#56
gandhi1007 Part Time Pimp Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 1,967	Re: Pierre Thomas is the Saints best back & a true fan favorite Originally Posted by saintpaul25 I'm just curious. Did Deuce make any where near, what Bush is making, in his entire career as a Saint? He wasn't a number 2 pick, but he was first round, and a better RB in all facets of the game. And I'm tired of this BS, that "Reggie won us a ring." You guys act like he single handedly, went out, and won it by himself, with no help from anyone. I will say this, and I don't care if you agree or not. Thomas is WAY better on screen plays than Reggie. For all of his athleticism, he sure has a hard time following blocks, and finding open holes. But whatever, he'll be gone next year anyway, and we can finally be done with this debate once and for all. And Canton, you are going to have to refresh my "old fart" memory, of which starting elite RBs, that you remember returning punts.... I've watched football since 78, and I can't remember any star RBs, that were on permanent punt return duty, once they established themselves as starting RBs..... In fact, I can't think of one that's in the league right now. Oh, and one more thing, I believe it was our DEFENSE, that bailed his butt out, in the NFC Championship game, when he kept muffing punts. He is NOT a consistently elite player guys. He has flashes, and maybe one good game, every five. He has NEVER in my recollection, put together two one hundred yard ground games, since he got here, and how many seasons has he had over a thousand yards rushing? Never. I don't wanna hear "all purpose" crap, I don't wanna hear, "he's not that kind of player". If that's true, then change his gd position name, because if that's the case he's NOT a running back. Call him a WR, or make up something else. Dalton Hilliard was more productive in the ground game! I don't care about the money aspect. I'm just tired of the Bush apologists in here, blowing him up to something he isn't, and never will be. AMEN, brother......AMEN!!!! You sir, have hit the nail on the head.

05-24-2010, 09:22 PM	#57
SaintPauly Senior Citizen Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Gulfport, MS Posts: 3,180 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Pierre Thomas is the Saints best back & a true fan favorite Originally Posted by CantonLegend leon washington maurice jones drew darren sproles reggie bush brian westbrook just to name a few that play now but i was talking about in years past guys like gale sayers johnny roland brian mitchell(all time leader in punt return yardage) Ok, first off, Sproles hasn't been an every down back, since he got in the league. He was a third down back, behind LT, and he certainly wasn't making more money than LT. We will see how many punts he returns this year, if he is the feature back. Westbrook has had how many concussions? How many complete seasons has he played? Nuff said. Feature back yes. Retiring because of it, yes, most definately. Jones-Drew, is the only one on this list, that I would consider elite, at this point, and if you look at his ground production this past season, he FINALLY had a 1000 yards on the ground, because his return duties were actually limited. If you look at his return yards, compared to previous years, he only had 312 I believe. Now, let me get to names I would consider "elite". Chris Johnson, Matt Forte, Stephen Jackson, Thomas Jones. I don't think any of those guys are returning punts bro. I also never remember seeing Emmit Smith, Walter Payton, or Roger Craig, pulling punt duties either, after they established themselves as feature backs. Bush, is NOT a feature back, and not even in the same league with any of those guys. Besides Sayers bro, I don't remember any of those other names you mentioned off the top of my head. I would trade Bush, for a healthy, in his prime Deuce McCallister, any day of the week, and twice on Sunday. And I wouldn't have a problem paying him 8 million dollars either. But, that's just me. I haven't drank the Kool Aid on Bush I guess.
	What's popular is not always right, and what's right is not always popular.....

05-25-2010, 02:54 AM	#58
HintOfLogic 100th Post Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 194	Re: Pierre Thomas is the Saints best back & a true fan favorite Punt Return vs. Expendable Back debate..... Reggie is ONLY returning punts because he proved a let down as a "featured" back.... thus (aside from monetary commitments) is that much more expendable. And spare me the "he's just such a threat he's just got to return punts" because that's just a pure delusion. Aside from my constant frustration watching Reggie almost always being out of sync which what to do and when while returning... fair catching when a lane space and a lane is available, not fair catching with "d" breathing down his throat, muffing, etc... just check the stats, he SUCKS! See where he sits among leagues other PR guys stats. Michael Lewis made a ton of TD's and also consistently, YET he ALSO almost always was atop the league with Yards per Return avg. This means, when he wasn't making rogue TD's, he was getting 20, 30, 40 yd returns, regularly.... unlike Reggie, who's few and far between TD's paired with a TON of returns for losses, muffs, fumbles.... etc. ..have more than gratified the eager Bush fanatic who dismiss all the below par play for the one per year highlight reel moment. Does anyone here REALLY believe that if Reggie was producing like everyone (don't double talk now, EVERYONE) thought he would, a'la Tomlinson, T. Jones, etc.... that he would still be returning punts? If so, you don't understand the game. His allocation to full-time PR is the direct result of his insignificance in the rushing game. On that note..... say Reggie becomes unavailable.... like an unnecessary injury sustained during PR duties. What do you think happens to Sean Payton's gameplan??? shall we discuss? I recall a handful of games where Reggie was put into the gameplan ineffectively to find himself pulled early on and found himself tugging at his shoulder pads behind Payton the remainder of the games... and this was last year, our superbowl run year.
HintOfLogic 100th Post Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 194

05-25-2010, 02:56 AM	#59
HintOfLogic 100th Post Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 194	Re: Pierre Thomas is the Saints best back & a true fan favorite Originally Posted by strato +1 for u exactly how i feel... Originally Posted by VillainAgain all these money arguments are unproductive, if your not cutting checks STFU... I could understand if reggie was pulling a charles grant then you could complain but if you truly are saints fans and watch the games you can see reggie's value, his contract is a product of being selected #2 overall. so, without checking.... I assume you had no comments in regards to resigning Sharper and at what price was reasonable... right?
HintOfLogic 100th Post Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 194

05-25-2010, 03:24 AM	#60
HintOfLogic 100th Post Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 194	Re: Pierre Thomas is the Saints best back & a true fan favorite Originally Posted by SAINT_MICHAEL Yes you did... "It's not that complicated and y'all are being too sensitive. We are overpaying for Bush and can't afford the much needed and worth it Sharper.... why is it tragic to compare the two together? I just can't stand reading about salary limits preventing Sharpers return, knowing how much Reggie is robbing the saints for..... don't know how y'all can, but that's you .....sometimes, ignorance is bliss!" HintOfLogic 04-09-2010, 04:11 PM I've re-read what I posted, quoted about half a dozen times..... not only are you paraphrasing, or chopping a small snippet of my whole, large argument out, but even still.... it just reiterates my point you questioned in the first place: "..... I complained that it makes no sense that the majority of posters were getting vocal and opinionated about Sharper wanting "too much" money along with what "they" thought was too much. I found it hypocritical (at the least) that all of the concerns for money vs. value when Reggie is set to be the highest paid RB in the NFL. And I questioned, would resigning Sharper be such a big deal if Reggie wasn't such a hit on the wallet?" My point was PLAIN AND SIMPLE, I couldn't stand hearing all the B&G knowledgeable.... popping up with their concerns for how much money the (int leading, HOF headed, pro-bowl) safety Sharper was seeking meanwhile the very same vocal people are and were deliberately disconcerned with the fact that Reggie Bush (proven limited) was set to be the highest paid RB and even highest paid Saint. I ASSURE YOU, If I thought that Reggie's salary was an final hindrance to Sharper getting resigned.... I would have come right out and said it. Do I not seem direct enough to you? My point was with unnecessary vocal concerns for money for one guy, but blatant lack of concern for the next guys.... you know that! But thanks for reading my post anyways
HintOfLogic 100th Post Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 194