Guilty as charged....

JudeThaddeus · 10-02-2003, 01:51 PM

Let me admit right up front here that I was a Haslett-fan. Yup, I did it. I crowed about him, when we won a playoff game. I defended his coaching through the late-season collapses, I blamed them on Brooks (still do, to a lesser degree). I defended his player-moves in Roaf (team tension), Turley("ole" manuever and team tension), Knight(speed), etc.

Even with all that above, I can still change my mind. I no longer know if Haslett is a good coach or a bad coach. I do know that he should be able to recognize the short-comings of his players (AB's lack of leadership - Jones' lack of covering/tackling) and coaches (McCarthy's predictability- and Venturri's......everything).

Teams in the NFL are businesses, pure and simple. At some point in the past, they may have been sports but not any more. An NFL franchise is successful when it makes money. It makes money by winning and attracting the fans to the games. With this in mind, the coach should also be man-enough to say "I was wrong". He should be strong enough to replace the parts that aren't working; the parts that are not helping the franchise to win and make money. He should be able to do this to friends, no matter how close they are to him. It is all business after all.

It may be a lonely job and it may take a rare man to do it, but it has to be done. A good coach knows this and acts on it. A bad coach does not.

Thus far Jim Haslett is showing that he is a bad coach. I won't give up on him just yet, but I think this should be the last year we endure waiting for him to mature and be able to make the tough calls. Am I certain what those calls are? No, but I can certainly make educated guesses.

1) Aaron Brooks must either step up and become passionate about the game and be accountable to the fans, his teammates, his coaches and himself for his actions, or he must go. This is his last year to prove that he can grow into this role.

2) Rick Venturi must be removed as defensive coordinator. I think the role is too big for him. He may be a great coach, but planning defenses at the NFL level is too much for him to handle.

3) Mike McCarthy must either learn to abandon his conservative approach to the offense or be removed. Our offenses strengths lie in explosiveness. Conservative play-calling does not play to our strengths. Deuce is good but he cannot carry the entire offense.

Maybe none of these things are the fix we need. Maybe it is all a question of money and "Mr. Tom" just won't come off with the bucks. Maybe N.O. is just too small and too poor a city to successfully support an NFL team. Maybe there really is a voodoo woman's curse. I have resorted to guessing and grasping at straws, but I do know that Haslett must pick a different road if he wants to win back the fans and I am not sure he is man enough to do it.

TheOriginalSwampdog · 10-02-2003, 04:28 PM

Bingo. You are correct on all points. Nice to have another realist aboard.

BlackandBlue · 10-02-2003, 04:51 PM

Let me admit right up front here that I was a Haslett-fan.

Most here were, I know I was, but they won\'t admit it. Maybe they aren\'t the \"realists\" that you and I are.

[Edited on 2/10/2003 by BlackandBlue]

JOESAM2002 · 10-02-2003, 05:25 PM

So was I. I was even a McCarthy fan but now? I just don\'t know if they are the ones to lead us to the promised land. I even liked Venturi, not as a defensive coordinator but I thought he was a good teacher.

subguy · 10-02-2003, 08:26 PM

I still have nothing against Haslett. I think it is a whole lot of things. Haslett is the coach so he has to asume his share of the responsibilty. The whole problem is that as a cohesive unit , the whole team has fallen apart and that is where the coach gets some blame also. The coach usually has his guy who is on the team who is the rally guy. Haslett selected Brooks, and his lack of maturity is not the rah rah guy the team needs. Veteran leadership has to help. You and I both know that Haslett would like to start this year over. We rid our self of the cancer Turley and Roaf he wanted too much and was on his way down. But a guy like Roaf brings a veteran presence. No cehesion, it is like an individual sport instead of a team sport.

BillyCarpenter1 · 10-03-2003, 09:17 AM

Coaches are only as good as the results their teams produce. In Hasletts first year he was a great coach. In the next 2 years he was a coach that his team played great early on then collapsed at the end of the season. This year he is the worst coach in the NFL, so far. If you want to blame someone, then I was suggest starting at the very top with Tom Benson and working your way down.

Some of the best coaching jobs are done when a team is faced with a simualr situation that the Saints have right now. Haslett isn\'t the best or worst coach in the NFL. Haslett doesn\'t remind me of a quitter, like Jim More, so let\'s see how he does....

tweeky · 10-03-2003, 09:45 AM

I\'m sorry guys, I think its unfair to blame caches RIGHT NOW for whats happened. Several KEY players were lost very early into the season.
Mel Mitchell-Look at Hamlin in Seattle. Thats the hitting he was gonna bring.
Darren Howard- Our best DE. He was the major key to protecting our corners.
D. Carter-Our best corner, gone.
Sullivan-Flashes of greatness, after 6 games he was gonna start looking good.
Hodge- Arguably our best LB. Well he was supposed to be.
Now Smith is gone for a couple too. No depth now.

I think there are only 2 or 3 DC\'s that could hold that defense together after losing an INORDINATE amount of key players. Kiffin and Lovie come to mind.

I don\'t think you can point fingers at Loomis or Haslett, YET.

After we get most of our players back for a few games and we still suck, then I agree, off with their heads.

BlackandBlue · 10-03-2003, 09:56 AM

I\'m done giving Haslett anymore chances. I have not liked what I\'ve seen since the 99-2000 season. My main beef is not the fact that they lost to the Colts, but how they lost. If the game would have been close, you wouldn\'t have near the animosity from the fans towards the team that you have today. The big problem is that they quit, or gave up. To me, that is a reflection on the coaching, which is why I believe that in order to right the ship, they need to make some changes. You can point the finger at Benson, but we all know that he controls who is hired and fired in the front office, not on the field. I don\'t think that it is his responsibility to be down on the field trying to motivate the team. And I sure as hell do not want him to have any say as to what players are drafted or signed. Just look at the teams where the owners do get involved with aquiring talent, Arizona and Cincinnati (pre this year) as an example, and see the negative results that can take place.

10-02-2003, 01:51 PM	#1
JudeThaddeus Registered Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 53	Guilty as charged.... Let me admit right up front here that I was a Haslett-fan. Yup, I did it. I crowed about him, when we won a playoff game. I defended his coaching through the late-season collapses, I blamed them on Brooks (still do, to a lesser degree). I defended his player-moves in Roaf (team tension), Turley("ole" manuever and team tension), Knight(speed), etc. Even with all that above, I can still change my mind. I no longer know if Haslett is a good coach or a bad coach. I do know that he should be able to recognize the short-comings of his players (AB's lack of leadership - Jones' lack of covering/tackling) and coaches (McCarthy's predictability- and Venturri's......everything). Teams in the NFL are businesses, pure and simple. At some point in the past, they may have been sports but not any more. An NFL franchise is successful when it makes money. It makes money by winning and attracting the fans to the games. With this in mind, the coach should also be man-enough to say "I was wrong". He should be strong enough to replace the parts that aren't working; the parts that are not helping the franchise to win and make money. He should be able to do this to friends, no matter how close they are to him. It is all business after all. It may be a lonely job and it may take a rare man to do it, but it has to be done. A good coach knows this and acts on it. A bad coach does not. Thus far Jim Haslett is showing that he is a bad coach. I won't give up on him just yet, but I think this should be the last year we endure waiting for him to mature and be able to make the tough calls. Am I certain what those calls are? No, but I can certainly make educated guesses. 1) Aaron Brooks must either step up and become passionate about the game and be accountable to the fans, his teammates, his coaches and himself for his actions, or he must go. This is his last year to prove that he can grow into this role. 2) Rick Venturi must be removed as defensive coordinator. I think the role is too big for him. He may be a great coach, but planning defenses at the NFL level is too much for him to handle. 3) Mike McCarthy must either learn to abandon his conservative approach to the offense or be removed. Our offenses strengths lie in explosiveness. Conservative play-calling does not play to our strengths. Deuce is good but he cannot carry the entire offense. Maybe none of these things are the fix we need. Maybe it is all a question of money and "Mr. Tom" just won't come off with the bucks. Maybe N.O. is just too small and too poor a city to successfully support an NFL team. Maybe there really is a voodoo woman's curse. I have resorted to guessing and grasping at straws, but I do know that Haslett must pick a different road if he wants to win back the fans and I am not sure he is man enough to do it.
JudeThaddeus Registered Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 53

10-02-2003, 04:28 PM	#2
TheOriginalSwampdog 100th Post Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 215	Guilty as charged.... Bingo. You are correct on all points. Nice to have another realist aboard.

10-02-2003, 04:51 PM	#3
BlackandBlue Kinder, gentler Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: dirty south Posts: 3,889	Guilty as charged.... Let me admit right up front here that I was a Haslett-fan. Most here were, I know I was, but they won\'t admit it. Maybe they aren\'t the \"realists\" that you and I are. [Edited on 2/10/2003 by BlackandBlue]

10-02-2003, 05:25 PM	#4
JOESAM2002 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: CRYSTAL BEACH TEXAS Posts: 4,100	Guilty as charged.... So was I. I was even a McCarthy fan but now? I just don\'t know if they are the ones to lead us to the promised land. I even liked Venturi, not as a defensive coordinator but I thought he was a good teacher.

10-02-2003, 08:26 PM	#5
subguy 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: FL Posts: 2,095	Guilty as charged.... I still have nothing against Haslett. I think it is a whole lot of things. Haslett is the coach so he has to asume his share of the responsibilty. The whole problem is that as a cohesive unit , the whole team has fallen apart and that is where the coach gets some blame also. The coach usually has his guy who is on the team who is the rally guy. Haslett selected Brooks, and his lack of maturity is not the rah rah guy the team needs. Veteran leadership has to help. You and I both know that Haslett would like to start this year over. We rid our self of the cancer Turley and Roaf he wanted too much and was on his way down. But a guy like Roaf brings a veteran presence. No cehesion, it is like an individual sport instead of a team sport.
	Don't want em to get your goat don't show em where it's hid.

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10-03-2003, 09:17 AM	#6
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209	Guilty as charged.... Coaches are only as good as the results their teams produce. In Hasletts first year he was a great coach. In the next 2 years he was a coach that his team played great early on then collapsed at the end of the season. This year he is the worst coach in the NFL, so far. If you want to blame someone, then I was suggest starting at the very top with Tom Benson and working your way down. Some of the best coaching jobs are done when a team is faced with a simualr situation that the Saints have right now. Haslett isn\'t the best or worst coach in the NFL. Haslett doesn\'t remind me of a quitter, like Jim More, so let\'s see how he does....
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209

10-03-2003, 09:45 AM	#7
tweeky 500th Post Join Date: May 2003 Location: South Alabama Posts: 779	Guilty as charged.... I\'m sorry guys, I think its unfair to blame caches RIGHT NOW for whats happened. Several KEY players were lost very early into the season. Mel Mitchell-Look at Hamlin in Seattle. Thats the hitting he was gonna bring. Darren Howard- Our best DE. He was the major key to protecting our corners. D. Carter-Our best corner, gone. Sullivan-Flashes of greatness, after 6 games he was gonna start looking good. Hodge- Arguably our best LB. Well he was supposed to be. Now Smith is gone for a couple too. No depth now. I think there are only 2 or 3 DC\'s that could hold that defense together after losing an INORDINATE amount of key players. Kiffin and Lovie come to mind. I don\'t think you can point fingers at Loomis or Haslett, YET. After we get most of our players back for a few games and we still suck, then I agree, off with their heads.
	Whether we agree or disagree; its all for Him.

10-03-2003, 09:56 AM	#8
BlackandBlue Kinder, gentler Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: dirty south Posts: 3,889	Guilty as charged.... I\'m done giving Haslett anymore chances. I have not liked what I\'ve seen since the 99-2000 season. My main beef is not the fact that they lost to the Colts, but how they lost. If the game would have been close, you wouldn\'t have near the animosity from the fans towards the team that you have today. The big problem is that they quit, or gave up. To me, that is a reflection on the coaching, which is why I believe that in order to right the ship, they need to make some changes. You can point the finger at Benson, but we all know that he controls who is hired and fired in the front office, not on the field. I don\'t think that it is his responsibility to be down on the field trying to motivate the team. And I sure as hell do not want him to have any say as to what players are drafted or signed. Just look at the teams where the owners do get involved with aquiring talent, Arizona and Cincinnati (pre this year) as an example, and see the negative results that can take place.
	The waiting drove me mad.... I don't want to hear from those that know... Everything has changed, absolutely nothing's changed Eddie is a....draftnik?