For the Bag Head Supporters

lumm0x · 10-24-2003, 09:51 AM

Gator, if you read how this thread starts out, it begins with Billy posting a Phil Simms article and highlighting a paragraph he obviously agrees with. He then types three paragraphs explaining why he posted it that basically is summed up in the last sentence:

It\'s hard for me to understand how someone can bash a team so hard when things are going bad and when things turn around those same fans are back supporting the team like they never said anything at all........

He then gets torn apart for his \"opinion\". He never said they were wrong. He said that he didn\'t understand the logic behind their position. A few guys got into a very civil debate and as far as I can tell...the first one to degrade the thread with smack was you. The fight went on to say how he was telling people their opinions were wrong and making personal attacks. I admit he\'s done that. So have you. So has almost everyone else at some time. I think he just got called out in this thread because has been the most prolific offender, more obvious by his post volume in a short window, ....but no way the only one.
Then make a rule and make all abide by it. If you want to make a Billy rule but let everyone else get away with the same thing....then yes I\'ll side with him because I know he can just rationally discuss football without completely ignoring someones opinion or personally attacking them. Why, because I\'ve experienced it. I also know that he leads with smack and complete disdain for posts by guys like OSD, BMG and 08 because that\'s all they\'ve led to him....quid pro quo.

I\'m not taking the side of his opinion on the issue of the thread, but I am siding with him on how he posts. Given the right mood I\'d likely post in the same manner. I just choose to ignore threads and comments made by individuals when I have no confidence they can rationally or calmly debate.

JudeThaddeus · 10-24-2003, 01:14 PM

I have started several posts lately, but deleted them before they saw \"print\". My heart just hasn\'t been in it (had a death in the family), but I guess its time to get back to life.

I have been reading the many and varied opinions here and I have to ask a question: Is it OK to say that your team is a great when they are playing great?

The answer to this question is important. Many posters on this board seem to think that the answer to this question is a resounding \"yes\". By their definition, this is what a \"fan\" does. Now let me appeal to your logic: Is it OK to say that your team suck when they are playing awfully?

I know that this is perhaps an unfair comparison, but I remember a year (1980, so painful) wherein we went to the infamous team-worst record of 1-15. During that time, I often told people, \"Man, my team sucks.\" Did this make me a bad fan? A bandwagon fan? They were still my team. Was I somehow disloyal for telling people the truth in that we were an awful football team?

This season and this team is nowhere near the Saints of old, but we still have a ton of problems. No REASONABLE person would see it any differently. If two people look at an average football team and one sees the team as \"Super Bowl Bound\" and the other sees them as \"Bottom of the League\"; is any one of them more right than the other? If those two people go to a game and one wears the foam finger, the whistle-head, and a jersey to the game and the other wears a bag; is either more right? Did the guy in the bag go home Monday, stand around the water cooler and tell everyone he rooted for the FOTM, or did he say that he rooted for the Saints?

I have never worn a bag to a game, probably never will. But even if I did, it would make me no less a Saints fan. Because I choose not to wear a bag, it CERTAINLY does not make me any MORE a Saints fan nor any better.

That is a fundamental difference in the way most people see this thread. I am responding to a thread. This thread seems to have been posted as a challenge to those fans who are so desperate to win, they will try almost ANYTHING to spark something in their team. Though the language is polite, it is still a challenge to that type of fan\'s loyalty. Those challenged can respond with insults, attacks, or with reasoned out arguments but no matter how they do, make no mistake, they are responding to that challenge and the consequences of those responses must be carried by the originator of the challenge.

Just my opinion.

BillyCarpenter1 · 10-24-2003, 01:26 PM

You know I\'m not eactly thrilled with everything the U.S. government does, but I do not go around burning the American flag. To me burning the American flag is disgraceful. Now, some don\'t see it that way. Some think they are actually helping the country out in some kind of way. They say they pay taxes and that\'s their right. Maybe so, but you will never convince me that it\'s right.

Samething with wearing a bag on your head to a Saints game. It\'s disgraceful and I don\'t think it\'s right. Sure you pay your money to get into the game and I suppose you can wear what ya want.

BlackandBlue · 10-24-2003, 02:00 PM

Burning a flag is one thing. But I would have no problems wearing a bag on my head while meeting my congressman. :P

BillyCarpenter1 · 10-24-2003, 02:08 PM

Burning a flag is one thing. But I would have no problems wearing a bag on my head while meeting my congressman. :P

With the way the democrats and republicans are always bickering it\'s like the AFC against the NFC. Personally, I think the congressmen should be the one\'s with the bags on their heads...

[Edited on 24/10/2003 by BillyCarpenter1]

WhoDat · 10-24-2003, 05:32 PM

\"Burning a flag is one thing. But I would have no problems wearing a bag on my head while meeting my congressman.\"

LMAO!

That\'s the only good post out of about the last 20 in this thread.

JOESAM2002 · 10-25-2003, 12:25 PM

No one wants to ban anyone here! But what I hope you all would understand is that we as editors and moderators have more people to watch out for than just the ones who post on the board. There are people who read this board everyday and never post. There are children who are not of age to see and read some of the things that get posted on here. Yes, some of them are funny, I agree completely with that, and yes censorship can cause some of the better points to be lost. If you guys would realize that what I say here is all true, then you would help us by not posting things not suitable for all members. We came very close to not having a board at all the other night. So I am asking you all one more time to help by policing your own posts so we won\'t have to. Again I will say, if you have a problem with that I don\'t. I will delete it or edit it!

[Edited on 25/10/2003 by JOESAM2002]

whowatches · 10-25-2003, 10:02 PM

First of all, comparing rooting for the Saints to supporting your country is a warped and unfair comparison. Wearing a freakin\' bag on your head is NOTHING like burning a flag.

What this post was originally discussing was an article by Phil Simms in which he suggested that fans should basically just shut the heck up and enjoy the show. He made an assinine comparison between fans complaining about their team to citizens complaining about politicians. In my first post on this thread, I pointed out that neither fans nor voters needed to have anything more than lay knowledge to justify complaints. In politics, everyone is allowed a voice and a vote, regardless of their knowledge. The same applies, in a way to football. My money is my vote. If I pay to go to a Saints game, I can darned well wear a bag if that\'s the way I choose to express my current feelings about the team. I am still a fan. As Jude put it, the Saints are still my team. The bag is simply the method I choose to let them know how I feel about their current performance.

All that being said, going into tomorrow\'s game, the Saints need not look for bags. I even noticed that CBSSportsline has them favored by two. BUT... if the team falls apart and loses the next ten, I and other fans have the right to express our displeasure however we choose! Doesn\'t mean we we\'re not fans ... just lookin\' forward to next year. Isn\'t that the mantra of the Saints?

BillyCarpenter1 · 10-25-2003, 10:16 PM

whowatches --

First of all, comparing rooting for the Saints to supporting your country is a warped and unfair comparison. Wearing a freakin\' bag on your head is NOTHING like burning a flag

It\'s a very fair comparison because we are talking about personal beliefs. We are not talking about breaking laws here. People burn flags to protest things like entering into wars they feel are unjust. Who are you to tell them that burning a flag is disgraceful?? They pay their taxes don\'t they? Does this mean they don\'t love their country? Does this make them any less of an American? No it does not!! But it is a disgraceful act -- Just as I contend that wearing a bag on your head to a Saints game is !!

whowatches -- I\'m going to take your same little paragraph here and subsititute a few words and show you how you can justify burning a flag the same way.

Original Statement to justify wearing a bag:

The same applies, in a way to football. My money is my vote. If I pay to go to a Saints game, I can darned well wear a bag if that\'s the way I choose to express my current feelings about the team. I am still a fan. As Jude put it, the Saints are still my team. The bag is simply the method I choose to let them know how I feel about their current performance.

Same reasoning to justify buning the American Flag:

The same applies, in a way to patriotism. My taxes are my vote. If I pay taxes to my country. I can darned well burn a flag if that\'s the way I choose to express my current feelings about the country I am still a American. The United States is still my country. The burning of the flag is simply the method I choose to let them know how I feel about their current performance

.

The point is -- America is a free country and you have the right to wear a bag to a Saints game and to burn the American flag. But, there are better ways to express your opinions. I\'m sure burning the American flag doesn\'t help the moral of the soldiers and I\'m sure wearing a bag doesn\'t help the moral of the Saints players. Hey, but that\'s just my opinion. Burn Flags or wear bags, but there are more tasteful ways !!

[Edited on 26/10/2003 by BillyCarpenter1]

JOESAM2002 · 10-25-2003, 11:14 PM

Question? Hasn\'t this thread become the latest in a long line of dead horses yet? Seems to me the whole world knows by now how you feel about the bags. Let\'s go on to something else.

10-24-2003, 09:51 AM	#51
lumm0x Resident antediluvian Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 2,026	For the Bag Head Supporters Gator, if you read how this thread starts out, it begins with Billy posting a Phil Simms article and highlighting a paragraph he obviously agrees with. He then types three paragraphs explaining why he posted it that basically is summed up in the last sentence: It\'s hard for me to understand how someone can bash a team so hard when things are going bad and when things turn around those same fans are back supporting the team like they never said anything at all........ He then gets torn apart for his \"opinion\". He never said they were wrong. He said that he didn\'t understand the logic behind their position. A few guys got into a very civil debate and as far as I can tell...the first one to degrade the thread with smack was you. The fight went on to say how he was telling people their opinions were wrong and making personal attacks. I admit he\'s done that. So have you. So has almost everyone else at some time. I think he just got called out in this thread because has been the most prolific offender, more obvious by his post volume in a short window, ....but no way the only one. Then make a rule and make all abide by it. If you want to make a Billy rule but let everyone else get away with the same thing....then yes I\'ll side with him because I know he can just rationally discuss football without completely ignoring someones opinion or personally attacking them. Why, because I\'ve experienced it. I also know that he leads with smack and complete disdain for posts by guys like OSD, BMG and 08 because that\'s all they\'ve led to him....quid pro quo. I\'m not taking the side of his opinion on the issue of the thread, but I am siding with him on how he posts. Given the right mood I\'d likely post in the same manner. I just choose to ignore threads and comments made by individuals when I have no confidence they can rationally or calmly debate.

10-24-2003, 01:14 PM	#52
JudeThaddeus Registered Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 53	For the Bag Head Supporters I have started several posts lately, but deleted them before they saw \"print\". My heart just hasn\'t been in it (had a death in the family), but I guess its time to get back to life. I have been reading the many and varied opinions here and I have to ask a question: Is it OK to say that your team is a great when they are playing great? The answer to this question is important. Many posters on this board seem to think that the answer to this question is a resounding \"yes\". By their definition, this is what a \"fan\" does. Now let me appeal to your logic: Is it OK to say that your team suck when they are playing awfully? I know that this is perhaps an unfair comparison, but I remember a year (1980, so painful) wherein we went to the infamous team-worst record of 1-15. During that time, I often told people, \"Man, my team sucks.\" Did this make me a bad fan? A bandwagon fan? They were still *my team*. Was I somehow disloyal for telling people the truth in that we were an awful football team? This season and this team is nowhere near the Saints of old, but we still have a ton of problems. No REASONABLE person would see it any differently. If two people look at an average football team and one sees the team as \"Super Bowl Bound\" and the other sees them as \"Bottom of the League\"; is any one of them more right than the other? If those two people go to a game and one wears the foam finger, the whistle-head, and a jersey to the game and the other wears a bag; is either more right? Did the guy in the bag go home Monday, stand around the water cooler and tell everyone he rooted for the FOTM, or did he say that he rooted for the Saints? I have never worn a bag to a game, probably never will. But even if I did, it would make me no less a Saints fan. Because I choose not to wear a bag, it CERTAINLY does not make me any MORE a Saints fan nor any better. That is a fundamental difference in the way most people see this thread. I am responding to a thread. This thread seems to have been posted as a challenge to those fans who are so desperate to win, they will try almost ANYTHING to spark something in their team. Though the language is polite, it is still a challenge to that type of fan\'s loyalty. Those challenged can respond with insults, attacks, or with reasoned out arguments but no matter how they do, make no mistake, they are responding to that challenge and the consequences of those responses must be carried by the originator of the challenge. Just my opinion.
JudeThaddeus Registered Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 53

10-24-2003, 01:26 PM	#53
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209	For the Bag Head Supporters You know I\'m not eactly thrilled with everything the U.S. government does, but I do not go around burning the American flag. To me burning the American flag is disgraceful. Now, some don\'t see it that way. Some think they are actually helping the country out in some kind of way. They say they pay taxes and that\'s their right. Maybe so, but you will never convince me that it\'s right. Samething with wearing a bag on your head to a Saints game. It\'s disgraceful and I don\'t think it\'s right. Sure you pay your money to get into the game and I suppose you can wear what ya want.
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209

10-24-2003, 02:00 PM	#54
BlackandBlue Kinder, gentler Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: dirty south Posts: 3,889	For the Bag Head Supporters Burning a flag is one thing. But I would have no problems wearing a bag on my head while meeting my congressman. :P

10-24-2003, 02:08 PM	#55
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209	For the Bag Head Supporters Burning a flag is one thing. But I would have no problems wearing a bag on my head while meeting my congressman. :P With the way the democrats and republicans are always bickering it\'s like the AFC against the NFC. Personally, I think the congressmen should be the one\'s with the bags on their heads... [Edited on 24/10/2003 by BillyCarpenter1]
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209

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10-24-2003, 05:32 PM	#56
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	For the Bag Head Supporters \"Burning a flag is one thing. But I would have no problems wearing a bag on my head while meeting my congressman.\" LMAO! That\'s the only good post out of about the last 20 in this thread.
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631

10-25-2003, 12:25 PM	#57
JOESAM2002 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: CRYSTAL BEACH TEXAS Posts: 4,100	For the Bag Head Supporters No one wants to ban anyone here! But what I hope you all would understand is that we as editors and moderators have more people to watch out for than just the ones who post on the board. There are people who read this board everyday and never post. There are children who are not of age to see and read some of the things that get posted on here. Yes, some of them are funny, I agree completely with that, and yes censorship can cause some of the better points to be lost. If you guys would realize that what I say here is all true, then you would help us by not posting things not suitable for all members. We came very close to not having a board at all the other night. So I am asking you all one more time to help by policing your own posts so we won\'t have to. Again I will say, if you have a problem with that I don\'t. I will delete it or edit it! [Edited on 25/10/2003 by JOESAM2002]
	Sometimes it's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought an idiot, than to open it and remove all doubt!!!!! "Every time you think, you weaken the nation!" Moe Howard...The Three Stooges.

10-25-2003, 10:02 PM	#58
whowatches 500th Post Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 575	For the Bag Head Supporters First of all, comparing rooting for the Saints to supporting your country is a warped and unfair comparison. Wearing a freakin\' bag on your head is NOTHING like burning a flag. What this post was originally discussing was an article by Phil Simms in which he suggested that fans should basically just shut the heck up and enjoy the show. He made an assinine comparison between fans complaining about their team to citizens complaining about politicians. In my first post on this thread, I pointed out that neither fans nor voters needed to have anything more than lay knowledge to justify complaints. In politics, everyone is allowed a voice and a vote, regardless of their knowledge. The same applies, in a way to football. My money is my vote. If I pay to go to a Saints game, I can darned well wear a bag if that\'s the way I choose to express my current feelings about the team. I am still a fan. As Jude put it, the Saints are still my team. The bag is simply the method I choose to let them know how I feel about their current performance. All that being said, going into tomorrow\'s game, the Saints need not look for bags. I even noticed that CBSSportsline has them favored by two. BUT... if the team falls apart and loses the next ten, I and other fans have the right to express our displeasure however we choose! Doesn\'t mean we we\'re not fans ... just lookin\' forward to next year. Isn\'t that the mantra of the Saints?
whowatches 500th Post Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 575

10-25-2003, 10:16 PM	#59
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209	For the Bag Head Supporters whowatches -- First of all, comparing rooting for the Saints to supporting your country is a warped and unfair comparison. Wearing a freakin\' bag on your head is NOTHING like burning a flag It\'s a very fair comparison because we are talking about personal beliefs. We are not talking about breaking laws here. People burn flags to protest things like entering into wars they feel are unjust. Who are you to tell them that burning a flag is disgraceful?? They pay their taxes don\'t they? Does this mean they don\'t love their country? Does this make them any less of an American? No it does not!! But it is a disgraceful act -- Just as I contend that wearing a bag on your head to a Saints game is !! whowatches -- I\'m going to take your same little paragraph here and subsititute a few words and show you how you can justify burning a flag the same way. Original Statement to justify wearing a bag: The same applies, in a way to football. My money is my vote. If I pay to go to a Saints game, I can darned well wear a bag if that\'s the way I choose to express my current feelings about the team. I am still a fan. As Jude put it, the Saints are still my team. The bag is simply the method I choose to let them know how I feel about their current performance. Same reasoning to justify buning the American Flag: The same applies, in a way to patriotism. My taxes are my vote. If I pay taxes to my country. I can darned well burn a flag if that\'s the way I choose to express my current feelings about the country I am still a American. The United States is still my country. The burning of the flag is simply the method I choose to let them know how I feel about their current performance . The point is -- America is a free country and you have the right to wear a bag to a Saints game and to burn the American flag. But, there are better ways to express your opinions. I\'m sure burning the American flag doesn\'t help the moral of the soldiers and I\'m sure wearing a bag doesn\'t help the moral of the Saints players. Hey, but that\'s just my opinion. Burn Flags or wear bags, but there are more tasteful ways !! [Edited on 26/10/2003 by BillyCarpenter1]
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209

10-25-2003, 11:14 PM	#60
JOESAM2002 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: CRYSTAL BEACH TEXAS Posts: 4,100	For the Bag Head Supporters Question? Hasn\'t this thread become the latest in a long line of dead horses yet? Seems to me the whole world knows by now how you feel about the bags. Let\'s go on to something else.