5-11 - best case

WhoDat · 10-26-2003, 05:29 PM

No, I'm not saying 5-11 is the best this team can be, but right now, it's what I'm rooting for. I'm sure I'll catch sh!t for this, but this team proved to me today that it cannot get over the hump. We needed one touchdown in the second half to seal the game. One score, and with the exception of the final drive of regulation, we pretty much did nothing. Even then we proved our ineptitude. 3rd and 2 on a drive where we're rolling and our tightend tries to juke a corner rather than just falling forward or running through him. 4th and 1 from the 37 in OT... yeah, going for it was the right decision, but trying to run Deuce on a dive with two tightends and a FB is the wrong play call against Carolina. Stupid!

Yeah, our defense looks a little better, but the bottom line is that we can't stop anyone when it matters. At 3-5 we basically need to go 7-1 or 6-2 to have a shot at the last wild card spot. That's not happening. This team can't do that. So, my hope is that we go 5-11 or worse. That is the best thing for us in the long term. If we are undeniably bad this year, that means regime change, and hopefully we get a coach and GM in here that can do something with all this talent. My biggest fear is that we go 7-9 - enough losses to not make the playoffs, but enough wins to get a middle first round draft pick, instead of a high first rounder, and more importantly, enough wins for Haslett to weasel his way into another year.

I'm for Saban, and I'm done with this team this year. I simply cannot see us digging out of a 3-5 hole. Even if we can, I don't know why we would want that. We've proven FIVE times this season already that we cannot beat good teams. If we go 9-7 and squeak in, we'll just get blown up in the playoffs. Nope, give me 5-11 and a clean slate with a coach that knows how to get the BEST out of his players.

BillyCarpenter1 · 10-26-2003, 07:16 PM

I can understand your position. I can understand your frustration. But, who\'s to say if we clean house that the next regime is going to do any better? Given Benson\'s past performance on hiring these folks, things have never turned out that way. If your position is that Haslett has had his opportunity and you are ready for anyone other than him to be the coach, then I can\'t blame you, but I take little comfort that things will work out any better.

I\'m not exactly thrilled with Jim Haslett and company, but at this point, I don\'t agree with you. I can\'t honestly say that I believe that Haslett is the right guy. I can\'t even really defend him. But, I\'m not ready to agree with you at this point. To satisfy my on mind, I have to see what happens the rest of the year before I go calling for everyone to be fired.

BillyCarpenter1 · 10-26-2003, 07:49 PM

Gator -- I\'m very close to calling for a coaching change myself. But, if they win out -- There is no way I would call for a coahing change.

1. Coaching

2. Lack of talent on defense.

3. General Manager.

Something like that. You might could switch the order a little bit.

whowatches · 10-26-2003, 07:57 PM

I agree with number one, Billy. I think the GM is one of the reasons for number two. You could also lump in whoever\'s in charge of evaluating the talent we brought in this year.

whowatches · 10-26-2003, 08:04 PM

Whodat, if we do have a coaching change at the end of the year, do you really want Saban? When was the last time a college coach came into the NFL and had real success? Jimmy Johnson?

I think we\'d be better served hiring an OFFENSIVE coordinator from a successful program. Gary Kubiak and Al Saunders come to mind. Then, we can hire a defensive coordinator from the college ranks.

I see your point about not winning anymore games this year, but I just can\'t go there.

I don\'t know. The next nine weeks are going to be tough.

BillyCarpenter1 · 10-26-2003, 08:08 PM

Whodat, if we do have a coaching change at the end of the year, do you really want Saban? When was the last time a college coach came into the NFL and had real success? Jimmy Johnson?

I think we\'d be better served hiring an OFFENSIVE coordinator from a successful program. Gary Kubiak and Al Saunders come to mind. Then, we can hire a defensive coordinator from the college ranks.

I see your point about not winning anymore games this year, but I just can\'t go there.
.

I don\'t know. The next nine weeks are going to be tough.

I agree completely with everything you just said. Nick Saban hasn\'t really impressed me that much in the college ranks. There are much better college coahes than Saban IMO

[Edited on 27/10/2003 by BillyCarpenter1]

WhoDat · 10-26-2003, 08:08 PM

I understand what you\'re saying too Billy. However, can you name me a coach who brought his team to the playoffs in one year, then failed to make it in the next three years in a row, and then ever made it to a Super Bowl... or even to the playoffs again? I can\'t.

Point is, that if a coach hasn\'t shown that he can lead his team to a consistently better record each year by the third or fourth year, it won\'t happen. If someone else comes in at least there\'s potential. With Haslett, what you\'ve seen for the last, oh, 16 regular season weeks back to last season, is about what you\'re going to get every week. That\'s unacceptible. If Haslett goes 5-11, he will get fired. So that\'s what I\'m rooting for - not b/c I\'m a fair-weather fan, but b/c I want this team to succeed, and that won\'t happen this year, so I\'m looking long-term for an answer.

BillyCarpenter1 · 10-26-2003, 08:11 PM

WhoDat --

Like I said -- I can\'t defend Haslett. I\'m not saying your wrong either. That might very well be the best thing for this team. I just can\'t be wishing for this team to lose though. If it works out that way, then so be it.

P.S. - I do not think you are a fair weather fan for hoping that.

WhoDat · 10-26-2003, 08:12 PM

Actually, the guy I\'d really like to see given a chance is Ron Zook, but otherwise, all I know is that Saban is a winner. He\'s won everywhere he\'s ever gone, and that means something to me. I\'m not stuck on Saban. There are a lot of coaches in the NFL ranks that I wouldn\'t mind seeing given a chance... or another chance.

whowatches · 10-26-2003, 08:14 PM

Whodat, I\'m pretty close to being with you on the coaching change. What I\'m curious about is your list of candidate(s). Do you really think we should go after Saban? If so, what has he shown you that makes him the top candidate? Why do you think he\'d be better than an established NFL OC?

I\'d like to know your opinion.

10-26-2003, 05:29 PM	#1
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	5-11 - best case No, I'm not saying 5-11 is the best this team can be, but right now, it's what I'm rooting for. I'm sure I'll catch sh!t for this, but this team proved to me today that it cannot get over the hump. We needed one touchdown in the second half to seal the game. One score, and with the exception of the final drive of regulation, we pretty much did nothing. Even then we proved our ineptitude. 3rd and 2 on a drive where we're rolling and our tightend tries to juke a corner rather than just falling forward or running through him. 4th and 1 from the 37 in OT... yeah, going for it was the right decision, but trying to run Deuce on a dive with two tightends and a FB is the wrong play call against Carolina. Stupid! Yeah, our defense looks a little better, but the bottom line is that we can't stop anyone when it matters. At 3-5 we basically need to go 7-1 or 6-2 to have a shot at the last wild card spot. That's not happening. This team can't do that. So, my hope is that we go 5-11 or worse. That is the best thing for us in the long term. If we are undeniably bad this year, that means regime change, and hopefully we get a coach and GM in here that can do something with all this talent. My biggest fear is that we go 7-9 - enough losses to not make the playoffs, but enough wins to get a middle first round draft pick, instead of a high first rounder, and more importantly, enough wins for Haslett to weasel his way into another year. I'm for Saban, and I'm done with this team this year. I simply cannot see us digging out of a 3-5 hole. Even if we can, I don't know why we would want that. We've proven FIVE times this season already that we cannot beat good teams. If we go 9-7 and squeak in, we'll just get blown up in the playoffs. Nope, give me 5-11 and a clean slate with a coach that knows how to get the BEST out of his players.
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631

10-26-2003, 07:16 PM	#2
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209	5-11 - best case I can understand your position. I can understand your frustration. But, who\'s to say if we clean house that the next regime is going to do any better? Given Benson\'s past performance on hiring these folks, things have never turned out that way. If your position is that Haslett has had his opportunity and you are ready for anyone other than him to be the coach, then I can\'t blame you, but I take little comfort that things will work out any better. I\'m not exactly thrilled with Jim Haslett and company, but at this point, I don\'t agree with you. I can\'t honestly say that I believe that Haslett is the right guy. I can\'t even really defend him. But, I\'m not ready to agree with you at this point. To satisfy my on mind, I have to see what happens the rest of the year before I go calling for everyone to be fired.
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209

10-26-2003, 07:49 PM	#3
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209	5-11 - best case Gator -- I\'m very close to calling for a coaching change myself. But, if they win out -- There is no way I would call for a coahing change. 1. Coaching 2. Lack of talent on defense. 3. General Manager. Something like that. You might could switch the order a little bit.
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209

10-26-2003, 07:57 PM	#4
whowatches 500th Post Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 575	5-11 - best case I agree with number one, Billy. I think the GM is one of the reasons for number two. You could also lump in whoever\'s in charge of evaluating the talent we brought in this year.
whowatches 500th Post Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 575

10-26-2003, 08:04 PM	#5
whowatches 500th Post Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 575	5-11 - best case Whodat, if we do have a coaching change at the end of the year, do you really want Saban? When was the last time a college coach came into the NFL and had real success? Jimmy Johnson? I think we\'d be better served hiring an OFFENSIVE coordinator from a successful program. Gary Kubiak and Al Saunders come to mind. Then, we can hire a defensive coordinator from the college ranks. I see your point about not winning anymore games this year, but I just can\'t go there. I don\'t know. The next nine weeks are going to be tough.
whowatches 500th Post Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 575

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10-26-2003, 08:08 PM	#6
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209	5-11 - best case Whodat, if we do have a coaching change at the end of the year, do you really want Saban? When was the last time a college coach came into the NFL and had real success? Jimmy Johnson? I think we\'d be better served hiring an OFFENSIVE coordinator from a successful program. Gary Kubiak and Al Saunders come to mind. Then, we can hire a defensive coordinator from the college ranks. I see your point about not winning anymore games this year, but I just can\'t go there. . I don\'t know. The next nine weeks are going to be tough. I agree completely with everything you just said. Nick Saban hasn\'t really impressed me that much in the college ranks. There are much better college coahes than Saban IMO [Edited on 27/10/2003 by BillyCarpenter1]
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209

10-26-2003, 08:08 PM	#7
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	5-11 - best case I understand what you\'re saying too Billy. However, can you name me a coach who brought his team to the playoffs in one year, then failed to make it in the next three years in a row, and then ever made it to a Super Bowl... or even to the playoffs again? I can\'t. Point is, that if a coach hasn\'t shown that he can lead his team to a consistently better record each year by the third or fourth year, it won\'t happen. If someone else comes in at least there\'s potential. With Haslett, what you\'ve seen for the last, oh, 16 regular season weeks back to last season, is about what you\'re going to get every week. That\'s unacceptible. If Haslett goes 5-11, he will get fired. So that\'s what I\'m rooting for - not b/c I\'m a fair-weather fan, but b/c I want this team to succeed, and that won\'t happen this year, so I\'m looking long-term for an answer.
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. ThatÃ¢Â€Â™s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans SaintsÃ¢Â€Â™ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse \"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\" he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"

10-26-2003, 08:11 PM	#8
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209	5-11 - best case WhoDat -- Like I said -- I can\'t defend Haslett. I\'m not saying your wrong either. That might very well be the best thing for this team. I just can\'t be wishing for this team to lose though. If it works out that way, then so be it. P.S. - I do not think you are a fair weather fan for hoping that.
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209

10-26-2003, 08:12 PM	#9
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	5-11 - best case Actually, the guy I\'d really like to see given a chance is Ron Zook, but otherwise, all I know is that Saban is a winner. He\'s won everywhere he\'s ever gone, and that means something to me. I\'m not stuck on Saban. There are a lot of coaches in the NFL ranks that I wouldn\'t mind seeing given a chance... or another chance.
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631

10-26-2003, 08:14 PM	#10
whowatches 500th Post Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 575	5-11 - best case Whodat, I\'m pretty close to being with you on the coaching change. What I\'m curious about is your list of candidate(s). Do you really think we should go after Saban? If so, what has he shown you that makes him the top candidate? Why do you think he\'d be better than an established NFL OC? I\'d like to know your opinion.
whowatches 500th Post Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 575