The question no one wants to ask.....

TheOak · 10-19-2010, 08:35 AM

Some good points. I have a few questions..

1. What is more important?
Ability to block (I have yet to see proof Ivory can't).
Ability to make a Defense load the box so Brees can air it out easier? <-------- To me this one opens up a lot just being in the backfield.

2. What would you rather?
A back that delivers 50 yards rushing but does not fumble?
A back that Delivers 150 yards but may fumble? <-------- To me this one opens up a lot just being in the backfield.

Saint LB understood where I was going with this. I know everyone loves Thomas and he is near and dear to their heart. This whole poll and thread is based on the statement in the OP. "If Ivory is still performing this way 3 weeks from now"... In 4 games Ivory has 1/3 of the yardage that Thomas has for 22 games last year.

However if Ivory is still running like he is now when Thomas comes back. Ivory is my man. I have yet to see any Defense worry about Thomas. We do not need a blocker, that's what the O-Line is for. We need a back that can punch out 7-10 yard carries or longer to throw the Defense off.

I looked at Thomas's stats last year. There is nothing in there that would make me worry as a Defensive coordinator.
Pierre Thomas: Game Logs

Our passing game has not benefited from Thomas. It benefited from Bush. With Reggie and Ivory in the game Drew's options are wide open.

Keep this one key point in mind. There are dozens of comments out there from people who believe "they have figured us out"! Ivory putting people on their ass and chunking out 10-15 yard carries changes that whole dynamic.

We need to get out of that "thats our man" frame of mind with the exception of only a few players. No one knew who Arian Foster was last year. Now they are preparing for HIM.

poydras · 10-19-2010, 09:47 AM

Since when do we just use one back the whole game?

RaginCajun83 · 10-19-2010, 10:33 AM

If Ivory keeps his 6.3 avg then linebackers have to respect the Saints run game again like last year which will open up the passing game for Drew and his cast of weapons which makes this offense scary good again

darstep · 10-19-2010, 01:01 PM

Originally Posted by strato

True ,,but Ivory is a better pure runner..no denying that.. I say there is room for both....and hopefully so does the coach

PT probably would have torched Tampa for 150 but who can say. Ivory wasn't being stacked up at the point of attack as in previous weeks. He wasn't at 10 ypc previously, he was more normal like 3.9 or so, which in my eyes, is a good number. We won a Superbowl in large part because of our positive turnover ratio. Ivory is significantly impacting that number. 400 yards of offense becomes mute if we are coughing up the ball in the red zone. PT, if healthy, should get the lion's share unless Ivory can show that he excels head-to-head against the same opponents week-to-week over time.

TheOak · 10-19-2010, 02:42 PM

PT has broken 100 yds twice in his Career.

Poydras, you missed the point. We never have. We normally hand the ball to 2-3-4 players a game.... The point was who becomes the workhorse.

spkb25 · 10-19-2010, 04:13 PM

Both, and Reggie too

Ashley · 10-19-2010, 05:48 PM

Originally Posted by spkb25

Both, and Reggie too

i agree ! GEAUX SAINTS!!

Danno · 10-19-2010, 10:02 PM

How about this question...

Since many blamed our offensive struggles on Bush's absence, does Ivory's play and putting up 31 points prove that Bush's absence was NOT the reason our offense struggled?

504state · 10-20-2010, 12:12 AM

Originally Posted by x626xBlack

Or think about. However after yesterday it is in your face!
Ivory is 22nd in the League in rushing, Thomas is 43rd. Had Ivory not limped off yesterday he would have had that 1 yd TD.

When Thomas returns if Ivory is still performing at this level. Who do you play?

I think with the way Ivory is performing it makes the FO look very smart not giving Thomas his big money contract. He is a good player, but when you factor in his propensity to injury it is easy to see that he is a replaceable back. To answer your question I play whoever is hot at the moment.

TheOak · 10-20-2010, 07:39 AM

Originally Posted by Danno

How about this question...

Since many blamed our offensive struggles on Bush's absence, does Ivory's play and putting up 31 points prove that Bush's absence was NOT the reason our offense struggled?

I would answer it was not the absence of Bush, BUT the absence of a Bush like run threat....

That being said, I don't think anyone prepared for Ivory. I dont think even Ivory was prepared for his 157 yards much less anyone's Defense. LOL

My synopsis. It was actually the absence of Bush (and maybe Thomas) that helped us against Tampa. They figured that they only had to prepare to stop Brees, Tampa fans were commenting that we have no run game, never factored in a freight train.

Now is where the beauty of all this comes in. Cleveland is FORCED to prepare for Ivory........ Opening up Brees through the air. Only a few Defenses can effectively stop both.

View Poll Results: Who do you give the rock to when Thomas returns If Ivory is still performing at this level?
Pierre Thomas	34	58.62%
Chris Ivory	24	41.38%
Voters: 58. You may not vote on this poll

10-19-2010, 08:35 AM	#31
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,026	Some good points. I have a few questions.. 1. What is more important? Ability to block (I have yet to see proof Ivory can't). Ability to make a Defense load the box so Brees can air it out easier? <-------- To me this one opens up a lot just being in the backfield. 2. What would you rather? A back that delivers 50 yards rushing but does not fumble? A back that Delivers 150 yards but may fumble? <-------- To me this one opens up a lot just being in the backfield. Saint LB understood where I was going with this. I know everyone loves Thomas and he is near and dear to their heart. This whole poll and thread is based on the statement in the OP. "If Ivory is still performing this way 3 weeks from now"... In 4 games Ivory has 1/3 of the yardage that Thomas has for 22 games last year. However if Ivory is still running like he is now when Thomas comes back. Ivory is my man. I have yet to see any Defense worry about Thomas. We do not need a blocker, that's what the O-Line is for. We need a back that can punch out 7-10 yard carries or longer to throw the Defense off. I looked at Thomas's stats last year. There is nothing in there that would make me worry as a Defensive coordinator. Pierre Thomas: Game Logs Our passing game has not benefited from Thomas. It benefited from Bush. With Reggie and Ivory in the game Drew's options are wide open. Keep this one key point in mind. There are dozens of comments out there from people who believe "they have figured us out"! Ivory putting people on their ass and chunking out 10-15 yard carries changes that whole dynamic. We need to get out of that "thats our man" frame of mind with the exception of only a few players. No one knew who Arian Foster was last year. Now they are preparing for HIM.
	It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see. ~ Henry David Thoreau

10-19-2010, 01:01 PM	#34
darstep SaintSince67 Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: PortCity Posts: 2,044	Originally Posted by strato True ,,but Ivory is a better pure runner..no denying that.. I say there is room for both....and hopefully so does the coach PT probably would have torched Tampa for 150 but who can say. Ivory wasn't being stacked up at the point of attack as in previous weeks. He wasn't at 10 ypc previously, he was more normal like 3.9 or so, which in my eyes, is a good number. We won a Superbowl in large part because of our positive turnover ratio. Ivory is significantly impacting that number. 400 yards of offense becomes mute if we are coughing up the ball in the red zone. PT, if healthy, should get the lion's share unless Ivory can show that he excels head-to-head against the same opponents week-to-week over time.
	SaintSince67

10-19-2010, 05:48 PM	#37
Ashley Site Donor Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Colorado Springs Co Posts: 2,760	Originally Posted by spkb25 Both, and Reggie too i agree ! GEAUX SAINTS!!

10-20-2010, 12:12 AM	#39
504state Banned Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 252	Originally Posted by x626xBlack Or think about. However after yesterday it is in your face! Ivory is 22nd in the League in rushing, Thomas is 43rd. Had Ivory not limped off yesterday he would have had that 1 yd TD. When Thomas returns if Ivory is still performing at this level. Who do you play? I think with the way Ivory is performing it makes the FO look very smart not giving Thomas his big money contract. He is a good player, but when you factor in his propensity to injury it is easy to see that he is a replaceable back. To answer your question I play whoever is hot at the moment.
504state Banned Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 252

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10-19-2010, 09:47 AM	#32
poydras Team Doctor Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Deep South Posts: 856	Since when do we just use one back the whole game?

10-19-2010, 10:33 AM	#33
RaginCajun83 Hou Saints Fan Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Houston, Tx Posts: 5,050	If Ivory keeps his 6.3 avg then linebackers have to respect the Saints run game again like last year which will open up the passing game for Drew and his cast of weapons which makes this offense scary good again

10-19-2010, 02:42 PM	#35
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,026	PT has broken 100 yds twice in his Career. Poydras, you missed the point. We never have. We normally hand the ball to 2-3-4 players a game.... The point was who becomes the workhorse.

10-19-2010, 04:13 PM	#36
spkb25 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Baltimore, MD Posts: 13,097	Both, and Reggie too

10-19-2010, 10:02 PM	#38
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,720	How about this question... Since many blamed our offensive struggles on Bush's absence, does Ivory's play and putting up 31 points prove that Bush's absence was NOT the reason our offense struggled?

10-20-2010, 07:39 AM	#40
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,026	Originally Posted by Danno How about this question... Since many blamed our offensive struggles on Bush's absence, does Ivory's play and putting up 31 points prove that Bush's absence was NOT the reason our offense struggled? I would answer it was not the absence of Bush, BUT the absence of a Bush like run threat.... That being said, I don't think anyone prepared for Ivory. I dont think even Ivory was prepared for his 157 yards much less anyone's Defense. LOL My synopsis. It was actually the absence of Bush (and maybe Thomas) that helped us against Tampa. They figured that they only had to prepare to stop Brees, Tampa fans were commenting that we have no run game, never factored in a freight train. Now is where the beauty of all this comes in. Cleveland is FORCED to prepare for Ivory........ Opening up Brees through the air. Only a few Defenses can effectively stop both.
	It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see. ~ Henry David Thoreau

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