Browns waive WR Johnson

BillyC · 11-13-2003, 11:22 AM

I\'ll take these guys over Joe Horn.

Torry Holt STL 66 1016 15.4 9 48
Randy Moss MIN 63 998 15.8 10 72
Laveranues Coles WAS 51 783 15.4 3 64
Marvin Harrison IND 56 777 13.9 7 79
Hines Ward PIT 60 717 12.0 8 50
Isaac Bruce STL 45 705 15.7 1 41
Terrell Owens SF 48 636 13.3 4 75
Andre Johnson HOU 42 589 14.0 2 43
Eric Moulds BUF 41 542 13.2 1 49
Jeremy Shockey NYG 48 535 11.1 2 46
Plaxico Burress PIT 35 517 14.8 1 47
David Boston SD 40 495 12.4 3 46
Rod Smith DEN 39 487 12.5 1 38
Tony Gonzalez KC 33 481 14.6 5 67

BillyC · 11-13-2003, 11:28 AM

Joe Horn is a very good receiver but hardly an elite receiver. There are MANY teams where Joe would not be their # 1 receiver.

I am so baffled by this statement that I don\'t even know how to respond.

Why are you baffled? Do you think Joe Horn is an elite receiver?

BlackandBlue · 11-13-2003, 11:39 AM

Without question.

Joe makes plays, he is a playmaking receiver. He\'s not just another guy that lines up and has the ball thrown to him. I won\'t bring up stats, only what I\'ve seen on the field. He is by no means the best in the league, but there are very few others that I would put above him and his abilities. Moss (obviously), Owens, Harrison, Ward (maybe- I don\'t think he can get open like Horn can, but nobody blocks like Ward at the receiver position- nobody). He runs the slant pattern better than anyone else I\'ve seen in the league, he has an uncanny ability to get open, despite being double-teamed on a few occasions, and has the ability and focus to go up and catch the ball, regardless of who is around him. He plays hurt, talks trash and gets in the head of the opponents...I can\'t believe this is even a discussion.

saint5221 · 11-13-2003, 11:44 AM

I don\'t dissagree with your over all premise of Saint recivers being overrated but I think the list above Horn is a lot smaller than you have it.
First I think we can get rid of Shockey and Gonzalez ,come on they are tight ends not what are talking about at all.

I\'d put the list at:
Torry Holt STL 66 1016 15.4 9 48
Randy Moss MIN 63 998 15.8 10 72
Laveranues Coles WAS 51 783 15.4 3 64
Marvin Harrison IND 56 777 13.9 7 7
Terrell Owens SF 48 636 13.3 4 75

That who I\'d take right now over Horn there are a couple emerging WR who I might take next year over Horn but right now thats my list.

[Edited on 11/13/2003 by saint5221]

BillyC · 11-13-2003, 11:58 AM

Joe is a very good receiver. In my book, he is NOT an ELITE receiver. Joe is not a guy who dominates at the receiver position. Defenses must account for Joe, as with just about any # 1 receiver, but I don\'t think he exactly strikes fear in their heart. Fans seemed to be enamored with Saint players that play with heart and it is taboo to say anything negitive about them. Like, Sammy Knight. They are what they are though. Let me say it again. I don\'t think Joe Horn is an elite receiver. Joe is a very good receiver though.

tweeky · 11-13-2003, 12:25 PM

Joe is a very good receiver. In my book, he is NOT an ELITE receiver. Joe is not a guy who dominates at the receiver position. Defenses must account for Joe, as with just about any # 1 receiver, but I don\'t think he exactly strikes fear in their heart. Fans seemed to be enamored with Saint players that play with heart and it is taboo to say anything negitive about them. Like, Sammy Knight. They are what they are though. Let me say it again. I don\'t think Joe Horn is an elite receiver. Joe is a very good receiver though.

I agree completely Billy. He\'s a good WR. But he drops a lot of balls and talks too much trash, providing BB material for opponents.

I like him and would probably place him in the top ten. Elite to me means top 4 or 5. He\'s not there but he\'s close

BillyC · 11-13-2003, 12:33 PM

My original purpose was not to talk about Joe Horn but to talk about our receiving corp. in general. Past Joe Horn, who do we have that is making a big difference this year? Deuce is our 2nd leading receiver !! Somebody needs to step up the second half of the season.

saint5221 · 11-13-2003, 12:53 PM

Past Joe Horn, who do we have that is making a big difference this year? Deuce is our 2nd leading receiver !! Somebody needs to step up the second half of the season.

With you there 100%, it\'s to early to call Stallworth a bust, but if he finishes the season the way he\'s started it that would be a lot more than a sophmore slump. I have no idea what the hell has happened with Jarome, he is better than the dissapearing act he has pulled as of late.

WhoDat · 11-13-2003, 07:07 PM

Bottom line - over the last three years, only Harrison has been consistently better than Horn. T.O., Moss, and a slew of others have been good, but they\'ve been up and down. Can\'t argue that.

11-13-2003, 11:22 AM	#21
BillyC Banned Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 842	Browns waive WR Johnson I\'ll take these guys over Joe Horn. Torry Holt STL 66 1016 15.4 9 48 Randy Moss MIN 63 998 15.8 10 72 Laveranues Coles WAS 51 783 15.4 3 64 Marvin Harrison IND 56 777 13.9 7 79 Hines Ward PIT 60 717 12.0 8 50 Isaac Bruce STL 45 705 15.7 1 41 Terrell Owens SF 48 636 13.3 4 75 Andre Johnson HOU 42 589 14.0 2 43 Eric Moulds BUF 41 542 13.2 1 49 Jeremy Shockey NYG 48 535 11.1 2 46 Plaxico Burress PIT 35 517 14.8 1 47 David Boston SD 40 495 12.4 3 46 Rod Smith DEN 39 487 12.5 1 38 Tony Gonzalez KC 33 481 14.6 5 67
BillyC Banned Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 842

11-13-2003, 11:28 AM	#22
BillyC Banned Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 842	Browns waive WR Johnson Joe Horn is a very good receiver but hardly an elite receiver. There are MANY teams where Joe would not be their # 1 receiver. I am so baffled by this statement that I don\'t even know how to respond. Why are you baffled? Do you think Joe Horn is an elite receiver?
BillyC Banned Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 842

11-13-2003, 11:39 AM	#23
BlackandBlue Kinder, gentler Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: dirty south Posts: 3,889	Browns waive WR Johnson Without question. Joe makes plays, he is a playmaking receiver. He\'s not just another guy that lines up and has the ball thrown to him. I won\'t bring up stats, only what I\'ve seen on the field. He is by no means the best in the league, but there are very few others that I would put above him and his abilities. Moss (obviously), Owens, Harrison, Ward (maybe- I don\'t think he can get open like Horn can, but nobody blocks like Ward at the receiver position- nobody). He runs the slant pattern better than anyone else I\'ve seen in the league, he has an uncanny ability to get open, despite being double-teamed on a few occasions, and has the ability and focus to go up and catch the ball, regardless of who is around him. He plays hurt, talks trash and gets in the head of the opponents...I can\'t believe this is even a discussion.
	The waiting drove me mad.... I don't want to hear from those that know... Everything has changed, absolutely nothing's changed Eddie is a....draftnik?

11-13-2003, 11:44 AM	#24
saint5221 500th Post Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 598	Browns waive WR Johnson I don\'t dissagree with your over all premise of Saint recivers being overrated but I think the list above Horn is a lot smaller than you have it. First I think we can get rid of Shockey and Gonzalez ,come on they are tight ends not what are talking about at all. I\'d put the list at: Torry Holt STL 66 1016 15.4 9 48 Randy Moss MIN 63 998 15.8 10 72 Laveranues Coles WAS 51 783 15.4 3 64 Marvin Harrison IND 56 777 13.9 7 7 Terrell Owens SF 48 636 13.3 4 75 That who I\'d take right now over Horn there are a couple emerging WR who I might take next year over Horn but right now thats my list. [Edited on 11/13/2003 by saint5221]
saint5221 500th Post Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 598

11-13-2003, 11:58 AM	#25
BillyC Banned Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 842	Browns waive WR Johnson Joe is a very good receiver. In my book, he is NOT an ELITE receiver. Joe is not a guy who dominates at the receiver position. Defenses must account for Joe, as with just about any # 1 receiver, but I don\'t think he exactly strikes fear in their heart. Fans seemed to be enamored with Saint players that play with heart and it is taboo to say anything negitive about them. Like, Sammy Knight. They are what they are though. Let me say it again. I don\'t think Joe Horn is an elite receiver. Joe is a very good receiver though.
BillyC Banned Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 842

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11-13-2003, 12:25 PM	#26
tweeky 500th Post Join Date: May 2003 Location: South Alabama Posts: 779	Browns waive WR Johnson Joe is a very good receiver. In my book, he is NOT an ELITE receiver. Joe is not a guy who dominates at the receiver position. Defenses must account for Joe, as with just about any # 1 receiver, but I don\'t think he exactly strikes fear in their heart. Fans seemed to be enamored with Saint players that play with heart and it is taboo to say anything negitive about them. Like, Sammy Knight. They are what they are though. Let me say it again. I don\'t think Joe Horn is an elite receiver. Joe is a very good receiver though. I agree completely Billy. He\'s a good WR. But he drops a lot of balls and talks too much trash, providing BB material for opponents. I like him and would probably place him in the top ten. Elite to me means top 4 or 5. He\'s not there but he\'s close

11-13-2003, 12:33 PM	#27
BillyC Banned Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 842	Browns waive WR Johnson My original purpose was not to talk about Joe Horn but to talk about our receiving corp. in general. Past Joe Horn, who do we have that is making a big difference this year? Deuce is our 2nd leading receiver !! Somebody needs to step up the second half of the season.
BillyC Banned Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 842

11-13-2003, 12:53 PM	#28
saint5221 500th Post Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 598	Browns waive WR Johnson Past Joe Horn, who do we have that is making a big difference this year? Deuce is our 2nd leading receiver !! Somebody needs to step up the second half of the season. With you there 100%, it\'s to early to call Stallworth a bust, but if he finishes the season the way he\'s started it that would be a lot more than a sophmore slump. I have no idea what the hell has happened with Jarome, he is better than the dissapearing act he has pulled as of late.
saint5221 500th Post Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 598

11-13-2003, 07:07 PM	#29
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	Browns waive WR Johnson Bottom line - over the last three years, only Harrison has been consistently better than Horn. T.O., Moss, and a slew of others have been good, but they\'ve been up and down. Can\'t argue that.
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631