How good can the defense be?

BillyC · 11-12-2003, 10:08 PM

From my perspective, I think the Saints defense has shown a lot of improvement in the last few games. No, I am not saying they have played "lights out", but I am saying they look like they are starting to gel. Rick Venturi has tinkered with the defense by putting Orlando Ruff in @ MLB and the signing of Victor Green has made a difference.

They got rid of big Grady. Darren Howard is coming back. Sedrick Hodge should be replacing Darren Smith (which I feel is a big improvement) Tebucky Jones has been criticised and with good reason, but I think a lot of the reason that we haven't given up as many big pass plays is partly because Tebucky can cover so much ground when the ball is in the air. If any of you have labeled Tebucky as a bust, just remember what you thought about Jay Bellamy. Tebucky could be big for this Saints defense down the stretch.

Jonathan Sulllivan seems to be coming on. Willie Whitehead might be a Le Roi Glover type player @ DT. I think this Saints defense can be VERY good this year. I already think they are MUCH better than last year.

But how good do you guys think this defense can be?

tweeky · 11-12-2003, 10:22 PM

I said it at the beginning, and I\'ll say it again. I thought this D would start off bottom 1/3, and work its way up to the upper 1/3. (Barring more major injuries)

If you don\'t think injuries matter look at Tampa.

They lose like 2 guys off the best defense in the league and they\'re now getting hammered. And the mainstream sports media is using their injuries as an excuse.

EXCUSE ME!!! TRY LOSING 1/2 YOUR FRICKING STARTERS AND PLAY MANNING AND McNAIR.

You bunch of pewter panty-wastes!

OK, I\'m off my rant.
Billy, we\'ll finish in the top 15.

saintz08 · 11-12-2003, 10:31 PM

This also seemed to help :

Veteran linebacker Darrin Smith said the Saints\' coaching staff has simplified the defense, enabling players to play instinctively and do less thinking.

Kind of makes you wonder about the safeties ......

WhoDat · 11-12-2003, 11:36 PM

The defense STARTED in the top 15 (weren\'t we top 10 at some point? - 9th I think) and has now faded to 18th. I think we\'ll finish about 20th, exactly where I thought we would be. 20th to 22nd.

BillyC · 11-13-2003, 07:38 AM

WhoDat -- Sometimes I have a very hard time finding the logic behind your reasoning. Let me see if I got this straight ---

1. The Saints have managed to stay in the top 20(and well above at some points) despite missing half the starters on defense.
2. They stayed in the top 20 despite playing the toughest schedule in the NLF to date.

Now you want me to believe that the defense is going to be worse and drop down to the 20th spot or lower for the first time this season? You want me to believe that when --

1. Darren Howard and Sedrick Hodge are coming back.
2. We have a very easy schedule left compared to the one we already played.
3. We really don\'t face any explosive offenses the rest of the way out.

Now that\'s the facts WhoDat. That\'s a REALISTIC look at it. But, I\'m sure you see something totally different?

[Edited on 13/11/2003 by BillyC]

deadflatbird · 11-13-2003, 07:46 AM

I don\'t think we have a defense that can compete for any tittles though. If they step up I\'ll be impressed. Will they be better than they have been I think yes, wiht the injuried players coming back and things starting to come together... But this defense is going to need some tinkering this come off season.

WhoDat · 11-13-2003, 07:34 PM

Sure Billy, it\'s very easy to understand. You think the Saints are going to make a run at the playoffs, right? In order to do that, I think we all agree that the offense will need to start firing on all cylanders, again - right? So when we start getting out in front of people, they won\'t keep trying to pound the ball down our throats, like Tennessee, Carolina, and Seattle did. Teams will start throwing it on our 75 year old corners and the biggest let-down of the year, Tebucky Jones. That means more yards, more scores, and yes, a drop of at least two spots in total defense to number 20. It won\'t happen this week, b/c we\'re playing the Falcons, but Washington, New York, Dallas, and Tampa can all air it out on us. Even Philly and Jacksonville can if they need to.

WhoDat · 11-13-2003, 07:38 PM

P.S.

WhoDat -- Sometimes I have a very hard time finding the logic behind your reasoning.

Now that\'s the facts WhoDat. That\'s a REALISTIC look at it. But, I\'m sure you see something totally different?

Didn\'t you say the same thing this preseason when I projected 8-8. You told me there was NO logical way to see this team being worse than last year. That is VERY possible right now. You also told me I was nuts when I said that the offense would not be as good as last year, and when I project the defense would rank about 20th by mid-season (sorry, I was two spots off), again you said there was no logical explanation for that. So, when you say things like that B, you actually make me feel like I\'m right on.

whowatches · 11-13-2003, 08:05 PM

Pressure. It all comes down to pressure. We beat Tampa for two reasons: we capitalized on their mistakes, and we got pressure on the quarterback.

Hopefully, we can continue that trend. Howard\'s back (although BnB pointed out in another thread that he can\'t lift weights), and Whitehead\'s playing like a maniac. What I think some of us are afraid of, however, is watching a game in which the Saints do not get that pressure. This team simply cannot allow a quarterback time to make throws. Our secondary can not make plays on their own. That is the difference between the Saints defense and a top 15 defense.

Being hopeful is one thing. I hope that Ambrose has a couple more two INT games. I hope that Whitehead knocks every remaining qb we face back to middle school. But the realist in me says that we\'ve only seen two games in which the defense really showed. I\'m optimistic, but I\'m not wearing blinders.

[Edited on 14/11/2003 by whowatches]

BillyC · 11-14-2003, 09:09 AM

Didn\'t you say the same thing this preseason when I projected 8-8. You told me there was NO logical way to see this team being worse than last year. That is VERY possible right now. You also told me I was nuts when I said that the offense would not be as good as last year, and when I project the defense would rank about 20th by mid-season (sorry, I was two spots off), again you said there was no logical explanation for that. So, when you say things like that B, you actually make me feel like I\'m right on.

You were nuts then and still are.

Just like you were nuts when you gave up on the Saints earlier in the year and said they would be better off losing the rest of their games this year. Remember that statement? I had you and everyone else tellin\' me that it was over and everyone needed to be fired. I didn\'t buy into it then and I ain\'t buying into it now.

I\'m glad you weren\'t around when the Wright brothers were inventing the airplane. They would have never gotten that sucker off the ground. - :P You would have told Orville and Wilber to give up and that it was no way that plane was getting off the ground. But that plane did fly. And keep watching the Saints this year WhoDat. They will make the playoffs. At least that what I\'m going to believe, until proven otherwise.

Fly the friendly skies WhoDat. It\'s much more fun that riding in that pesimistic train of yours.

11-12-2003, 10:08 PM	#1
BillyC Banned Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 842	How good can the defense be? From my perspective, I think the Saints defense has shown a lot of improvement in the last few games. No, I am not saying they have played "lights out", but I am saying they look like they are starting to gel. Rick Venturi has tinkered with the defense by putting Orlando Ruff in @ MLB and the signing of Victor Green has made a difference. They got rid of big Grady. Darren Howard is coming back. Sedrick Hodge should be replacing Darren Smith (which I feel is a big improvement) Tebucky Jones has been criticised and with good reason, but I think a lot of the reason that we haven't given up as many big pass plays is partly because Tebucky can cover so much ground when the ball is in the air. If any of you have labeled Tebucky as a bust, just remember what you thought about Jay Bellamy. Tebucky could be big for this Saints defense down the stretch. Jonathan Sulllivan seems to be coming on. Willie Whitehead might be a Le Roi Glover type player @ DT. I think this Saints defense can be VERY good this year. I already think they are MUCH better than last year. But how good do you guys think this defense can be?
BillyC Banned Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 842

11-12-2003, 10:22 PM	#2
tweeky 500th Post Join Date: May 2003 Location: South Alabama Posts: 779	How good can the defense be? I said it at the beginning, and I\'ll say it again. I thought this D would start off bottom 1/3, and work its way up to the upper 1/3. (Barring more major injuries) If you don\'t think injuries matter look at Tampa. They lose like 2 guys off the best defense in the league and they\'re now getting hammered. And the mainstream sports media is using their injuries as an excuse. EXCUSE ME!!! TRY LOSING 1/2 YOUR FRICKING STARTERS AND PLAY MANNING AND McNAIR. You bunch of pewter panty-wastes! OK, I\'m off my rant. Billy, we\'ll finish in the top 15.
	Whether we agree or disagree; its all for Him.

11-12-2003, 10:31 PM	#3
saintz08 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 3,020	How good can the defense be? This also seemed to help : Veteran linebacker Darrin Smith said the Saints\' coaching staff has simplified the defense, enabling players to play instinctively and do less thinking. Kind of makes you wonder about the safeties ......
saintz08 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 3,020

11-12-2003, 11:36 PM	#4
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	How good can the defense be? The defense STARTED in the top 15 (weren\'t we top 10 at some point? - 9th I think) and has now faded to 18th. I think we\'ll finish about 20th, exactly where I thought we would be. 20th to 22nd.
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631

11-13-2003, 07:38 AM	#5
BillyC Banned Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 842	How good can the defense be? WhoDat -- Sometimes I have a very hard time finding the logic behind your reasoning. Let me see if I got this straight --- 1. The Saints have managed to stay in the top 20(and well above at some points) despite missing half the starters on defense. 2. They stayed in the top 20 despite playing the toughest schedule in the NLF to date. Now you want me to believe that the defense is going to be worse and drop down to the 20th spot or lower for the first time this season? You want me to believe that when -- 1. Darren Howard and Sedrick Hodge are coming back. 2. We have a very easy schedule left compared to the one we already played. 3. We really don\'t face any explosive offenses the rest of the way out. Now that\'s the facts WhoDat. That\'s a REALISTIC look at it. But, I\'m sure you see something totally different? [Edited on 13/11/2003 by BillyC]
BillyC Banned Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 842

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11-13-2003, 07:46 AM	#6
deadflatbird 100th Post Join Date: May 2003 Location: Virginia Posts: 255	How good can the defense be? I don\'t think we have a defense that can compete for any tittles though. If they step up I\'ll be impressed. Will they be better than they have been I think yes, wiht the injuried players coming back and things starting to come together... But this defense is going to need some tinkering this come off season.

11-13-2003, 07:34 PM	#7
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	How good can the defense be? Sure Billy, it\'s very easy to understand. You think the Saints are going to make a run at the playoffs, right? In order to do that, I think we all agree that the offense will need to start firing on all cylanders, again - right? So when we start getting out in front of people, they won\'t keep trying to pound the ball down our throats, like Tennessee, Carolina, and Seattle did. Teams will start throwing it on our 75 year old corners and the biggest let-down of the year, Tebucky Jones. That means more yards, more scores, and yes, a drop of at least two spots in total defense to number 20. It won\'t happen this week, b/c we\'re playing the Falcons, but Washington, New York, Dallas, and Tampa can all air it out on us. Even Philly and Jacksonville can if they need to.
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. ThatÃ¢Â€Â™s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans SaintsÃ¢Â€Â™ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse \"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\" he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"

11-13-2003, 07:38 PM	#8
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	How good can the defense be? P.S. WhoDat -- Sometimes I have a very hard time finding the logic behind your reasoning. Now that\'s the facts WhoDat. That\'s a REALISTIC look at it. But, I\'m sure you see something totally different? Didn\'t you say the same thing this preseason when I projected 8-8. You told me there was NO logical way to see this team being worse than last year. That is VERY possible right now. You also told me I was nuts when I said that the offense would not be as good as last year, and when I project the defense would rank about 20th by mid-season (sorry, I was two spots off), again you said there was no logical explanation for that. So, when you say things like that B, you actually make me feel like I\'m right on.
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. ThatÃ¢Â€Â™s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans SaintsÃ¢Â€Â™ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse \"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\" he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"

11-13-2003, 08:05 PM	#9
whowatches 500th Post Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 575	How good can the defense be? Pressure. It all comes down to pressure. We beat Tampa for two reasons: we capitalized on their mistakes, and we got pressure on the quarterback. Hopefully, we can continue that trend. Howard\'s back (although BnB pointed out in another thread that he can\'t lift weights), and Whitehead\'s playing like a maniac. What I think some of us are afraid of, however, is watching a game in which the Saints do not get that pressure. This team simply cannot allow a quarterback time to make throws. Our secondary can not make plays on their own. That is the difference between the Saints defense and a top 15 defense. Being hopeful is one thing. I hope that Ambrose has a couple more two INT games. I hope that Whitehead knocks every remaining qb we face back to middle school. But the realist in me says that we\'ve only seen two games in which the defense really showed. I\'m optimistic, but I\'m not wearing blinders. [Edited on 14/11/2003 by whowatches]
whowatches 500th Post Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 575

11-14-2003, 09:09 AM	#10
BillyC Banned Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 842	How good can the defense be? Didn\'t you say the same thing this preseason when I projected 8-8. You told me there was NO logical way to see this team being worse than last year. That is VERY possible right now. You also told me I was nuts when I said that the offense would not be as good as last year, and when I project the defense would rank about 20th by mid-season (sorry, I was two spots off), again you said there was no logical explanation for that. So, when you say things like that B, you actually make me feel like I\'m right on. You were nuts then and still are. Just like you were nuts when you gave up on the Saints earlier in the year and said they would be better off losing the rest of their games this year. Remember that statement? I had you and everyone else tellin\' me that it was over and everyone needed to be fired. I didn\'t buy into it then and I ain\'t buying into it now. I\'m glad you weren\'t around when the Wright brothers were inventing the airplane. They would have never gotten that sucker off the ground. - :P You would have told Orville and Wilber to give up and that it was no way that plane was getting off the ground. But that plane did fly. And keep watching the Saints this year WhoDat. They will make the playoffs. At least that what I\'m going to believe, until proven otherwise. Fly the friendly skies WhoDat. It\'s much more fun that riding in that pesimistic train of yours.
BillyC Banned Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 842