Roby to IR.

Danno · 12-30-2010, 06:06 PM

Originally Posted by saintfan

What do our other punt returners average? I'm wondering not because I want to defend Reggie but because to be honest I think our blocking on punt returns sucks balls.

Lance averages 10.2, which ranks him 28th in the NFL and nearly double what twinkle toes averages.

Stats: NFL Punt Returners - CBSSports.com

But what do I know, maybe he gets triple teamed on his punt returns too.

saintfan · 12-30-2010, 06:20 PM

Originally Posted by Danno

Lance averages 10.2, which ranks him 28th in the NFL and nearly double what twinkle toes averages.

Stats: NFL Punt Returners - CBSSports.com

But what do I know, maybe he gets triple teamed on his punt returns too.

There are variables Danno. How many returns for scores between the two? There are tons of variables that we could argue to infinity.

To be honest the pointing out every negative thing you can think of about Reggie stuff smells a lot like the times when everybody would point out everything negative thing they could think of about Aaron Brooks. It isn't an honest assessment of the player or the game.

Danno · 12-30-2010, 06:28 PM

Originally Posted by saintfan

There are variables Danno. How many returns for scores between the two? There are tons of variables that we could argue to infinity.

To be honest the pointing out every negative thing you can think of about Reggie stuff smells a lot like the times when everybody would point out everything negative thing they could think of about Aaron Brooks. It isn't an honest assessment of the player or the game.

Reggie has zero TD's over the last 2 years also. And only 4 total TD's in five years.

Reggie Bush, New Orleans Saints, NFL - CBSSports.com Football

I really don't know how else to evaluate his punt return skills other than return average. To me thats the proof in the pudding. If it was simply a 4 or 5 game average it can certainly be skewed and/or misleading, but we're talking about 5 years worth of stats.

I DO NOT HAVE AN ANTI-BUSH AGENDA, I only want people to put aside the exaggerations and biases and view him for what he really is.

Is there really a justification for averaging 5.3 yards per punt return over two years? How can those stats be skewed?

saintfan · 12-30-2010, 07:31 PM

Originally Posted by Danno

Reggie has zero TD's over the last 2 years also. And only 4 total TD's in five years.

Reggie Bush, New Orleans Saints, NFL - CBSSports.com Football

I really don't know how else to evaluate his punt return skills other than return average. To me thats the proof in the pudding. If it was simply a 4 or 5 game average it can certainly be skewed and/or misleading, but we're talking about 5 years worth of stats.

I DO NOT HAVE AN ANTI-BUSH AGENDA, I only want people to put aside the exaggerations and biases and view him for what he really is.

Is there really a justification for averaging 5.3 yards per punt return over two years? How can those stats be skewed?

Didn't he run one back last year against Arizona, or am I smoking crack?

As for me, I don't have any biased views on him at all. I think his salary needs to be reduced, but I also believe he brings a unique problem to teams trying to defend him.

I do think he sometimes costs himself yards trying to break big gains on returns, but my opinion is based more on what I hear people like Drew and Sean say about his skills and what he means to the offense rather than stats.

If you watch the linebacker on the playbook link posted here a day or so ago when Reggie goes in motion, he moves a couple steps in the direction of the motion, otherwise he stays home, but he's looking at Reggie when the ball is snapped. We got a first down and a TD on that play.

Are there other players who might garner this kind of attention? Probably, but if we have one on the roster I don't know who he is. I think this is the kind of thing Sean is talking about when he speaks about what Reggie brings to the table. He hasn't broken many this year but he CAN, and defenses have to account for that.

breesfan27 · 12-30-2010, 09:06 PM

Originally Posted by saintfan

Didn't he run one back last year against Arizona, or am I smoking crack?

Yes, he had a punt return last year in the NFC Divisional game.

Danno · 12-30-2010, 09:30 PM

Originally Posted by saintfan

Didn't he run one back last year against Arizona, or am I smoking crack?

As for me, I don't have any biased views on him at all. I think his salary needs to be reduced, but I also believe he brings a unique problem to teams trying to defend him.

They aren't having any problems defending him this year

I do think he sometimes costs himself yards trying to break big gains on returns, but my opinion is based more on what I hear people like Drew and Sean say about his skills and what he means to the offense rather than stats.

Do you think they're gonna say he's mediocre?

If you watch the linebacker on the playbook link posted here a day or so ago when Reggie goes in motion, he moves a couple steps in the direction of the motion, otherwise he stays home, but he's looking at Reggie when the ball is snapped. We got a first down and a TD on that play.

Every RB that's involved in the offensive passing plays gets the exact same attention. Reggie is no different and nothing really special. He's your typical scat back, and garners attention accordingly. In fact there were 3 occasions in the Falcon's game where he went in motion and got ZERO attention.

saintfan · 12-31-2010, 11:09 AM

Originally Posted by Danno

They aren't having any problems defending him this year

Do you think they're gonna say he's mediocre?

Every RB that's involved in the offensive passing plays gets the exact same attention. Reggie is no different and nothing really special. He's your typical scat back, and garners attention accordingly. In fact there were 3 occasions in the Falcon's game where he went in motion and got ZERO attention.

We will just have to agree to disagree on Reggie. I will say that I don't make a habit of assessing what I think the coaches and players say, particularly when they actually say something. I'm not much on second guessing their motives really.

As for whether or not teams make a concerned effort to account for him, well, I believe they do. They say they do. Why shouldn't I believe them?

All those statistical arguments I used to get in to with people about Aaron Brooks didn't change a thing. Those teams averaged nearly 30 points a game, stats be damned.

Reggie is getting paid too much. Most all of us agree on that, but I and most others, as well as other team's defenses if you believe what they say, treat him as something much more than a scat back.

Danno · 12-31-2010, 11:17 AM

Originally Posted by saintfan

Most all of us agree on that, but I and most others, as well as other team's defenses if you believe what they say, treat him as something much more than a scat back.

I think teams used to, but watching the games I just don't see it at all anymore.

And judging by an increasiningly diminished role in the offense, I think Payton sees it too.

Payton will find a way to get a match-up for him and he should still have a few wow games left in him, but the exaggerations of triple teams and coaches losing sleep over how to defend Reggie borders on laughable.

A while back the NFL players voted him one of the most over-rated players in the entire league. Thats gotta mean something coming from NFL players.

Reggie Bush - RB, Saints - NFL's Most Overrated Players - Photos - SI.com

12-30-2010, 06:06 PM	#1
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,751	Originally Posted by saintfan What do our other punt returners average? I'm wondering not because I want to defend Reggie but because to be honest I think our blocking on punt returns sucks balls. Lance averages 10.2, which ranks him 28th in the NFL and nearly double what twinkle toes averages. Stats: NFL Punt Returners - CBSSports.com But what do I know, maybe he gets triple teamed on his punt returns too.

12-30-2010, 06:20 PM	#2
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	Originally Posted by Danno Lance averages 10.2, which ranks him 28th in the NFL and nearly double what twinkle toes averages. Stats: NFL Punt Returners - CBSSports.com But what do I know, maybe he gets triple teamed on his punt returns too. There are variables Danno. How many returns for scores between the two? There are tons of variables that we could argue to infinity. To be honest the pointing out every negative thing you can think of about Reggie stuff smells a lot like the times when everybody would point out everything negative thing they could think of about Aaron Brooks. It isn't an honest assessment of the player or the game.

12-30-2010, 06:28 PM	#3
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,751	Originally Posted by saintfan There are variables Danno. How many returns for scores between the two? There are tons of variables that we could argue to infinity. To be honest the pointing out every negative thing you can think of about Reggie stuff smells a lot like the times when everybody would point out everything negative thing they could think of about Aaron Brooks. It isn't an honest assessment of the player or the game. Reggie has zero TD's over the last 2 years also. And only 4 total TD's in five years. Reggie Bush, New Orleans Saints, NFL - CBSSports.com Football I really don't know how else to evaluate his punt return skills other than return average. To me thats the proof in the pudding. If it was simply a 4 or 5 game average it can certainly be skewed and/or misleading, but we're talking about 5 years worth of stats. I DO NOT HAVE AN ANTI-BUSH AGENDA, I only want people to put aside the exaggerations and biases and view him for what he really is. Is there really a justification for averaging 5.3 yards per punt return over two years? How can those stats be skewed?

12-30-2010, 07:31 PM	#4
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	Originally Posted by Danno Reggie has zero TD's over the last 2 years also. And only 4 total TD's in five years. Reggie Bush, New Orleans Saints, NFL - CBSSports.com Football I really don't know how else to evaluate his punt return skills other than return average. To me thats the proof in the pudding. If it was simply a 4 or 5 game average it can certainly be skewed and/or misleading, but we're talking about 5 years worth of stats. I DO NOT HAVE AN ANTI-BUSH AGENDA, I only want people to put aside the exaggerations and biases and view him for what he really is. Is there really a justification for averaging 5.3 yards per punt return over two years? How can those stats be skewed? Didn't he run one back last year against Arizona, or am I smoking crack? As for me, I don't have any biased views on him at all. I think his salary needs to be reduced, but I also believe he brings a unique problem to teams trying to defend him. I do think he sometimes costs himself yards trying to break big gains on returns, but my opinion is based more on what I hear people like Drew and Sean say about his skills and what he means to the offense rather than stats. If you watch the linebacker on the playbook link posted here a day or so ago when Reggie goes in motion, he moves a couple steps in the direction of the motion, otherwise he stays home, but he's looking at Reggie when the ball is snapped. We got a first down and a TD on that play. Are there other players who might garner this kind of attention? Probably, but if we have one on the roster I don't know who he is. I think this is the kind of thing Sean is talking about when he speaks about what Reggie brings to the table. He hasn't broken many this year but he CAN, and defenses have to account for that.
	C'mon Man...

12-30-2010, 09:06 PM	#5
breesfan27 Mrs. Drew Brees Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: The Who Dat Nation (by way of South Dakota) Posts: 2,276 Blog Entries: 1	Originally Posted by saintfan Didn't he run one back last year against Arizona, or am I smoking crack? Yes, he had a punt return last year in the NFC Divisional game.

12-30-2010, 09:30 PM	#6
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,751	Originally Posted by saintfan Didn't he run one back last year against Arizona, or am I smoking crack? As for me, I don't have any biased views on him at all. I think his salary needs to be reduced, but I also believe he brings a unique problem to teams trying to defend him. They aren't having any problems defending him this year I do think he sometimes costs himself yards trying to break big gains on returns, but my opinion is based more on what I hear people like Drew and Sean say about his skills and what he means to the offense rather than stats. Do you think they're gonna say he's mediocre? If you watch the linebacker on the playbook link posted here a day or so ago when Reggie goes in motion, he moves a couple steps in the direction of the motion, otherwise he stays home, but he's looking at Reggie when the ball is snapped. We got a first down and a TD on that play. Every RB that's involved in the offensive passing plays gets the exact same attention. Reggie is no different and nothing really special. He's your typical scat back, and garners attention accordingly. In fact there were 3 occasions in the Falcon's game where he went in motion and got ZERO attention.

12-31-2010, 11:09 AM	#7
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	Originally Posted by Danno They aren't having any problems defending him this year Do you think they're gonna say he's mediocre? Every RB that's involved in the offensive passing plays gets the exact same attention. Reggie is no different and nothing really special. He's your typical scat back, and garners attention accordingly. In fact there were 3 occasions in the Falcon's game where he went in motion and got ZERO attention. We will just have to agree to disagree on Reggie. I will say that I don't make a habit of assessing what I think the coaches and players say, particularly when they actually say something. I'm not much on second guessing their motives really. As for whether or not teams make a concerned effort to account for him, well, I believe they do. They say they do. Why shouldn't I believe them? All those statistical arguments I used to get in to with people about Aaron Brooks didn't change a thing. Those teams averaged nearly 30 points a game, stats be damned. Reggie is getting paid too much. Most all of us agree on that, but I and most others, as well as other team's defenses if you believe what they say, treat him as something much more than a scat back.
	C'mon Man... Last edited by saintfan; 12-31-2010 at 11:11 AM..

12-31-2010, 11:17 AM	#8
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,751	Originally Posted by saintfan Most all of us agree on that, but I and most others, as well as other team's defenses if you believe what they say, treat him as something much more than a scat back. I think teams used to, but watching the games I just don't see it at all anymore. And judging by an increasiningly diminished role in the offense, I think Payton sees it too. Payton will find a way to get a match-up for him and he should still have a few wow games left in him, but the exaggerations of triple teams and coaches losing sleep over how to defend Reggie borders on laughable. A while back the NFL players voted him one of the most over-rated players in the entire league. Thats gotta mean something coming from NFL players. Reggie Bush - RB, Saints - NFL's Most Overrated Players - Photos - SI.com