Will Brooks break Saints record ???

lumm0x · 12-10-2003, 09:43 AM

Personally I have no desire to crucify a QB for a fumble in a case where it is a forced turnover. If the QB has cocked his arm to release the ball and a defender grabs the passing hand causing the fumble I don\'t blame the QB. Even blown blocking assignments that don\'t allow for 3 second pockets. It\'s the unforced, lack of concentration fumbles that make me break things. This fumbling arguement that has involved HOF QB\'s needs to be a relative comparison. Do you have any stats that quote unforced turnovers? Because I think that is the issue people are mad about.

BillyC · 12-10-2003, 09:57 AM

LummOx --

I do know that Brooks has 2 unforced fumbles this year. Let\'s be honest here. Most of the folks that are calling for Brooks head because of the fumbles are the same folks that wanted him gone a long time ago.

The bottom line is other QB\'s have had this problem besides Brooks and Elway. It happens and if it is correctable. No one has given in solid arguements as to why Brooks should be cut. At least I make a fair comparison. They just want him gone because they think he has done something that warrants getting rid of him. But the FACT is other QB\'s have done the samethings Brooks has done and gone on to have great careers.

Also, no one want\'s to talk about ANY of the positives of Brooks. Sounds unfair to me.

[Edited on 10/12/2003 by BillyC]

D_it_up · 12-10-2003, 09:59 AM

Good retort, Lumm0x. No one has seemed to clarify that, but I believe you\'re right about everyone being upset about the \"unforced\" fumbles. AB does it WAY too much. BillyC has compared Brooks to Elway and Favre? That is like comparing Shawn Bradley to Shaquille O\'Neal. Elway and Favre have been perrenial WINNERS. What has Brooks done? He lead the team to ONE playoff victory that wouldn\'t have even happened had it not been for Az-Hakim. Not saying that Brooks hasn\'t done anything, because he\'s been consistently average for the NFL, and as a Saint, he\'s been great......statistically. I think the majority of us find Brooks as a major disappointment because of the playoff win. We expected much more and he hasn\'t delivered. Sure it\'s a team effort, but AB hasn\'t shown anything to me or I\'m sure many of us that he\'s the man to do it again in the playoffs. A change of scenery or a change of coaching is exactly what he needs. Haslett has spoiled him too long into being passive about every bad play, bad throw, or bad game. Some coach out there is going to light a fire under his ass. Brooks has a lot of potential......I just don\'t see it in New Orleans.

BillyC · 12-10-2003, 10:04 AM

BillyC has compared Brooks to Elway and Favre? That is like comparing Shawn Bradley to Shaquille O\'Neal. Elway and Favre have been perrenial WINNERS. What has Brooks done? He lead the team to ONE playoff victory that wouldn\'t have even happened had it not been for Az-Hakim.

Ditup -- Who\'s to say what kind of career Brooks will go on to have. Favre and Elway weren\'t perrenial winners in their first 3-years and they weren\'t hall of fame players either. Why is it so hard to see that other QB\'s have had simular problems? Like I said, I ain\'t making this up. If I would of comapred Brooks to Patrick Ramsy would it have been a more valid arguement. Is that what you are trying to tell me?

[Edited on 10/12/2003 by BillyC]

D_it_up · 12-10-2003, 10:13 AM

BillyC! Did you stop reading my post right after you read that comment? If you did, let me show what else I said:

. A change of scenery or a change of coaching is exactly what he needs. Haslett has spoiled him too long into being passive about every bad play, bad throw, or bad game. Some coach out there is going to light a fire under his ass. Brooks has a lot of potential......I just don\'t see it in New Orleans.

I TOO believe that AB has the potential to be a good, if not great, QB. I just don\'t see it happening under Haslett. It probably won\'t happen in the city of New Orleans either because it would take a Super Bowl victory for the 99.9% of the Saints fans to support him now. No, I didn\'t rant and rave over Brooks and why I think he could be great. I shouldn\'t have to. I\'m sure most people can SEE that, but he just doesn\'t have his head on straight, and obviously Haslett hasn\'t done anything to cure that in the past few seasons either.

BillyC · 12-10-2003, 10:14 AM

As long as BillyC is a member here and as long as we have a board , this drivel will go on.

You know I brought this same arguement up on another saints board and it was discussed intelligently. The moderators sure as hell didn\'t come tell me it was drivel. I won\'t attack you though Joe. I\'ll just smile.

BillyC · 12-10-2003, 10:18 AM

D_it_up2 --

Yeah man I read it and I agree with you to a point. I am just saying I feel my arguement shows where other QB\'s have had simular problems and overcome them. Maybe Brooks will follow suit or maybe he won\'t. I just think he deserves a chance to show he can hold on to the ball.

Danno · 12-10-2003, 10:26 AM

BillyC has compared Brooks to Elway and Favre? That is like comparing Shawn Bradley to Shaquille O\'Neal. Elway and Favre have been perrenial WINNERS. What has Brooks done? He lead the team to ONE playoff victory that wouldn\'t have even happened had it not been for Az-Hakim.

Ditup -- Who\'s to say what kind of career Brooks will go on to have. Favre and Elway weren\'t peffenial winners in their first 3-years and they weren\'t hall of fame players either. Why is it so hard to see that other QB\'s have had simular problems? Like I said, I ain\'t making this up. If I would of comapred Brooks to Patrick Ramsy would it have been a more valid arguement. Is that what you are trying to tell me?

John Elway-Practically booed out of Denver his 1st few years. Boneheaded play plagued him often

Brett Favre-Couldn\'t get through a game without a dumb throw that resulted in a costly turnover.

Both of these players didn\'t get any respect until their 3rd or 4th years.
Can Brooks become a Favre or Elway? Doubtful. But the pattern of early inconsistency is noteworthy.

I think Brooks can develop into a QB much like a Randal Cunningham or a young Jeff Blake, back when he used to chunk it deep frequently to Pickens and whats-his-name.

D_it_up · 12-10-2003, 10:32 AM

Darnay Scott, by the way. You\'re right about those two QB\'s. They did overcome a TON of adversity, but I think the majority of Saints fans have made up their minds. If i\'m not mistaken, Elway and Favre brought those two teams back during rebuilding periods for their respective franchises. Neither were that good when they joined their teams. However, Brooks mopped up where Jeff Blake left off. He continued the Saints to the playoffs and has done nothing but regress mentally ever since. That\'s why I think that he won\'t be the Saints QB for very much longer. If he is, Jim Haslett won\'t be the one to coach him. Something has GOT to change.

BlackandBlue · 12-10-2003, 10:36 AM

So, because Elway had his fumbles in the 80\'s this disqualifies any arguement between him and Brooks?

Not when we are talking NFL comparisons, but I was under the impression that this thread was about Brooks and a Saints record. I\'m trying to figure out when Elway played for the Saints.

And to top all this crap off, you go and change my quote? What\'s up with that?

I...er....well...see...um....no comment.

12-10-2003, 09:43 AM	#11
lumm0x Resident antediluvian Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 2,026	Will Brooks break Saints record ??? Personally I have no desire to crucify a QB for a fumble in a case where it is a forced turnover. If the QB has cocked his arm to release the ball and a defender grabs the passing hand causing the fumble I don\'t blame the QB. Even blown blocking assignments that don\'t allow for 3 second pockets. It\'s the unforced, lack of concentration fumbles that make me break things. This fumbling arguement that has involved HOF QB\'s needs to be a relative comparison. Do you have any stats that quote unforced turnovers? Because I think that is the issue people are mad about.

12-10-2003, 09:57 AM	#12
BillyC Banned Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 842	Will Brooks break Saints record ??? LummOx -- I do know that Brooks has 2 unforced fumbles this year. Let\'s be honest here. Most of the folks that are calling for Brooks head because of the fumbles are the same folks that wanted him gone a long time ago. The bottom line is other QB\'s have had this problem besides Brooks and Elway. It happens and if it is correctable. No one has given in solid arguements as to why Brooks should be cut. At least I make a fair comparison. They just want him gone because they think he has done something that warrants getting rid of him. But the FACT is other QB\'s have done the samethings Brooks has done and gone on to have great careers. Also, no one want\'s to talk about ANY of the positives of Brooks. Sounds unfair to me. [Edited on 10/12/2003 by BillyC]
BillyC Banned Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 842

12-10-2003, 09:59 AM	#13
D_it_up Faqda Falcons Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Ruston, Louisiana Posts: 3,465 Blog Entries: 3	Will Brooks break Saints record ??? Good retort, Lumm0x. No one has seemed to clarify that, but I believe you\'re right about everyone being upset about the \"unforced\" fumbles. AB does it WAY too much. BillyC has compared Brooks to Elway and Favre? That is like comparing Shawn Bradley to Shaquille O\'Neal. Elway and Favre have been perrenial WINNERS. What has Brooks done? He lead the team to ONE playoff victory that wouldn\'t have even happened had it not been for Az-Hakim. Not saying that Brooks hasn\'t done anything, because he\'s been consistently average for the NFL, and as a Saint, he\'s been great......statistically. I think the majority of us find Brooks as a major disappointment because of the playoff win. We expected much more and he hasn\'t delivered. Sure it\'s a team effort, but AB hasn\'t shown anything to me or I\'m sure many of us that he\'s the man to do it again in the playoffs. A change of scenery or a change of coaching is exactly what he needs. Haslett has spoiled him too long into being passive about every bad play, bad throw, or bad game. Some coach out there is going to light a fire under his ass. Brooks has a lot of potential......I just don\'t see it in New Orleans.
	People shouldn't be afraid of their government. Governments should be afraid of their people.

12-10-2003, 10:04 AM	#14
BillyC Banned Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 842	Will Brooks break Saints record ??? BillyC has compared Brooks to Elway and Favre? That is like comparing Shawn Bradley to Shaquille O\'Neal. Elway and Favre have been perrenial WINNERS. What has Brooks done? He lead the team to ONE playoff victory that wouldn\'t have even happened had it not been for Az-Hakim. Ditup -- Who\'s to say what kind of career Brooks will go on to have. Favre and Elway weren\'t perrenial winners in their first 3-years and they weren\'t hall of fame players either. Why is it so hard to see that other QB\'s have had simular problems? Like I said, I ain\'t making this up. If I would of comapred Brooks to Patrick Ramsy would it have been a more valid arguement. Is that what you are trying to tell me? [Edited on 10/12/2003 by BillyC]
BillyC Banned Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 842

12-10-2003, 10:13 AM	#15
D_it_up Faqda Falcons Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Ruston, Louisiana Posts: 3,465 Blog Entries: 3	Will Brooks break Saints record ??? BillyC! Did you stop reading my post right after you read that comment? If you did, let me show what else I said: . A change of scenery or a change of coaching is exactly what he needs. Haslett has spoiled him too long into being passive about every bad play, bad throw, or bad game. Some coach out there is going to light a fire under his ass. Brooks has a lot of potential......I just don\'t see it in New Orleans. I TOO believe that AB has the potential to be a good, if not great, QB. I just don\'t see it happening under Haslett. It probably won\'t happen in the city of New Orleans either because it would take a Super Bowl victory for the 99.9% of the Saints fans to support him now. No, I didn\'t rant and rave over Brooks and why I think he could be great. I shouldn\'t have to. I\'m sure most people can SEE that, but he just doesn\'t have his head on straight, and obviously Haslett hasn\'t done anything to cure that in the past few seasons either.
	People shouldn't be afraid of their government. Governments should be afraid of their people.

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12-10-2003, 10:14 AM	#16
BillyC Banned Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 842	Will Brooks break Saints record ??? As long as BillyC is a member here and as long as we have a board , this drivel will go on. You know I brought this same arguement up on another saints board and it was discussed intelligently. The moderators sure as hell didn\'t come tell me it was drivel. I won\'t attack you though Joe. I\'ll just smile.
BillyC Banned Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 842

12-10-2003, 10:18 AM	#17
BillyC Banned Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 842	Will Brooks break Saints record ??? D_it_up2 -- Yeah man I read it and I agree with you to a point. I am just saying I feel my arguement shows where other QB\'s have had simular problems and overcome them. Maybe Brooks will follow suit or maybe he won\'t. I just think he deserves a chance to show he can hold on to the ball.
BillyC Banned Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 842

12-10-2003, 10:26 AM	#18
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,723	Will Brooks break Saints record ??? BillyC has compared Brooks to Elway and Favre? That is like comparing Shawn Bradley to Shaquille O\'Neal. Elway and Favre have been perrenial WINNERS. What has Brooks done? He lead the team to ONE playoff victory that wouldn\'t have even happened had it not been for Az-Hakim. Ditup -- Who\'s to say what kind of career Brooks will go on to have. Favre and Elway weren\'t peffenial winners in their first 3-years and they weren\'t hall of fame players either. Why is it so hard to see that other QB\'s have had simular problems? Like I said, I ain\'t making this up. If I would of comapred Brooks to Patrick Ramsy would it have been a more valid arguement. Is that what you are trying to tell me? John Elway-Practically booed out of Denver his 1st few years. Boneheaded play plagued him often Brett Favre-Couldn\'t get through a game without a dumb throw that resulted in a costly turnover. Both of these players didn\'t get any respect until their 3rd or 4th years. Can Brooks become a Favre or Elway? Doubtful. But the pattern of early inconsistency is noteworthy. I think Brooks can develop into a QB much like a Randal Cunningham or a young Jeff Blake, back when he used to chunk it deep frequently to Pickens and whats-his-name.

12-10-2003, 10:32 AM	#19
D_it_up Faqda Falcons Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Ruston, Louisiana Posts: 3,465 Blog Entries: 3	Will Brooks break Saints record ??? Darnay Scott, by the way. You\'re right about those two QB\'s. They did overcome a TON of adversity, but I think the majority of Saints fans have made up their minds. If i\'m not mistaken, Elway and Favre brought those two teams back during rebuilding periods for their respective franchises. Neither were that good when they joined their teams. However, Brooks mopped up where Jeff Blake left off. He continued the Saints to the playoffs and has done nothing but regress mentally ever since. That\'s why I think that he won\'t be the Saints QB for very much longer. If he is, Jim Haslett won\'t be the one to coach him. Something has GOT to change.
	People shouldn't be afraid of their government. Governments should be afraid of their people.

12-10-2003, 10:36 AM	#20
BlackandBlue Kinder, gentler Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: dirty south Posts: 3,889	Will Brooks break Saints record ??? So, because Elway had his fumbles in the 80\'s this disqualifies any arguement between him and Brooks? Not when we are talking NFL comparisons, but I was under the impression that this thread was about Brooks and a Saints record. I\'m trying to figure out when Elway played for the Saints. And to top all this crap off, you go and change my quote? What\'s up with that? I...er....well...see...um....no comment.