Great Quote!

JOESAM2002 · 01-13-2004, 11:11 PM

Updated: 04:37 PM EST

Giants Coach Coughlin Hires Four Assistants
By TOM CANAVAN, AP SPORTS

"Good coaching is getting players to perform," said Coughlin, who last week hired Tim Lewis as his defensive coordinator. "All you have to do is look at the players they've coached."

Talk about great quotes? I wonder if Haz has ever heard anything like this? I thought you guys might get some mileage out of this one.

BillyC · 01-14-2004, 11:36 AM

I agree that getting players to perform is the job of a coach. But, how much is REALLY the coaches fault?

1. When a receiver drops passes, who\'s fault is it?
2. When someone fumbles, who\'s fault is it?

You get the idea? I\'m sure Haslett and company work with the players to correct such things, but the same mistakes seem to keep happening. At that point, what should Haslett do? Do you pull the player and put someone else in? What do you do?

Could Parcells make our receivers not drop passes? If he\'s capible of doing that, how does he do it? Fear of Parcells, is that it? Should Hasett have pulled Joe Horn, Brooks, Stallworth, Conwell, and others to send a message?

I think coaching has a lot to do with it, but just as much, if not more, fault lies with the individual players. At least that\'s the way I see it.

For the record, I do think Haslett should have told the players their starting positions were on the line if they continued to make mistakes.

[Edited on 14/1/2004 by BillyC]

JOESAM2002 · 01-14-2004, 11:55 AM

A players job should always be on the line. If not from the coach, then from himself. These guys are professionals, they get paid to do a job. If it\'s catching a football then catch it, if it\'s blocking someone then block. To me mental lapses are unacceptable in pro sports, although we see it more and more everyday. At times I get the feeling some of these guys think, \"If I screw up , what are they going to do? Get someone else?\" Maybe thats just exactly what needs to be done. Quit coddling these guys and make them earn the hugh amounts of money they get.

BillyC · 01-14-2004, 12:12 PM

I see so many other teams where the tackling is just terrible. I see other teams where their receivers drop balls. But, we seem to have all those problems consistently.

What has me more concerned than anything, is when we have players totally out of position. To me, that\'s a clear lack of coaching. Either that or the player is just too stupid to learn. If that\'s the case, then the coach is stupid for continuing to let that player get on the field.

JoeSam touches on something I wholeheartedly agree with. Players seem to believe they are untouchable and they know they won\'t be held accountable. Some coaches, like Parcells, command respect because of their accomplishments, and players are scared to cross the line with them. But, the coach must have the FULL support of the owner. I think sometimes certain individual players are more important to the owner than the coach.

What I\'m trying to say here is that a coach needs a situation where the players no the buck starts and stops with him. At that point, a coach needs to hold every player responsble for their actions, both on and off the field. If a coach doesn\'t do those things, then it\'s up to the owner to hold the coach responsible.

Maybe that doesn\'t make a damn bit of sense, but I know what I\'m trying to say. Somebody help me out here?

Danno · 01-14-2004, 12:24 PM

I see so many other teams where the tackling is just terrible. I see other teams where their receivers drop balls. But, we seem to have all those problems consistently.

What has me more concerned than anything, is when we have players totally out of position. To me, that\'s a clear lack of coaching. Either that or the player is just too stupid to learn. If that\'s the case, then the coach is stupid for continuing to let that player get on the field.

JoeSam touches on something I wholeheartedly agree with. Players seem to believe they are untouchable and they know they won\'t be held accountable. Some coaches, like Parcells, command respect because of their accomplishments, and players are scared to cross the line with them. But, the coach must have the FULL support of the owner. I think sometimes certain individual players are more important to the owner than the coach.

What I\'m trying to say here is that a coach needs a situation where the players no the buck starts and stops with him. At that point, a coach needs to hold every player responsble for their actions, both on and off the field. If a coach doesn\'t do those things, then it\'s up to the owner to hold the coach responsible.

Maybe that doesn\'t make a damn bit of sense, but I know what I\'m trying to say. Somebody help me out here?

JIM HASLETT HAS GOT TO BE THE LEADER ON THIS TEAM!!!
Until he takes command and becomes the clear leader of the New Orleans Saints it won\'t matter how many leadership classes Brooks goes to, or how much Aaron develops as a leader.
I think Jim has been criticized in the past for being too much of a hard-ass and he may have over-compensated this year by giving his guys some more freedom. Well we see that freedom as losing control of the team and the end result is there is no fear of failure.

When Haz told Brooks, stop fumbling or you\'re out, Brooks play improved dramatically, I thought.
Jim needs to go back to being Jim Haslett. If the players don\'t like it, so what?

JKool · 01-14-2004, 02:03 PM

Danno, did you say \"leader\". For a moment the thought of discussing that again made me cringe. Oddly though, I agree. Haz does need to be a leader, but what do you want him to do as a leader? He seems pretty present during games, he seems to be involved in rewarding and punishing players (maybe not as much as he should), and he is certainly in charge of personel decisions.

Billy, I think what you are trying to express is this: sometimes the coach doesn\'t have all the power he needs to enforce meaningful threats on players. If that is one of his best motivational styles, then he will have trouble actually motivating players if the owner takes that away.

Here is what I think is right about Coughlin\'s quote. When a coach does well (i.e. his players perform), then it is right to say that says something about his ability. Even the best players will perform better when a good coach is on them. That means that good performance is a good indicator of a good coach. Billy\'s earlier point, and I think I agree, is just that poor performance is not as obvious an indication of poor coaching. Here is what I think the reason is: the player has the most impact on his poor performance when it comes to dropped balls, running the wrong route, and failing to fall forward - coaching can improve these things but only before the game (not during). Thus, when a player performs badly on Sunday it is more under his control than the coaches\'. However, when a player performs well, that is a combination of good coaching and good playing by the player. Thus, good performance indicates both. It is a simple fact that there are not enough good, self motivated, student of the game players at each position to disguise bad coaching. ERGO, I think Coughlin is right, if you don\'t read into his point that poor performance displays bad coaching.

Cassady37 · 01-16-2004, 10:31 AM

A coach has to say what he means and mean what he says. After all this time I still couldn\'t tell you what Haslett\'s philiosophy is on offense or defense. Think of the good coaches out there now, you don\'t have to think twice to know where they\'re coming from or where they\'re headed. Think Parcell\'s would put up with ANY BS from attention-grabbing players? That one of the many differences betwen good coaches and Haslett.

BillyC · 01-16-2004, 10:34 AM

A coach has to say what he means and mean what he says. After all this time I still couldn\'t tell you what Haslett\'s philiosophy is on offense or defense. Think of the good coaches out there now, you don\'t have to think twice to know where they\'re coming from or where they\'re headed. Think Parcell\'s would put up with ANY BS from attention-grabbing players? That one of the many differences betwen good coaches and Haslett.

I don\'t know about that. While I think we need more discipline, I think we are carring it a little too far.

Let\'s compare Haslett to Jon Gruden. See any simularities this season? I do. Yet, Gruden is considered a great coach. How can that be?

saintfan · 01-16-2004, 11:09 AM

Gruden fails to win the Superbowl with the Raiders. He comes to Tampa and takes someone else\'s team, a guy Tampa ran out of town for his failure to take the team to the next step, to the Superbowl and wins it.

The following year Gruden\'s team is average at best and the guy Tampa ran out of town is on the Verge of going to the Superbowl.

I guess my point is that a lot of things have to line up just right in the NFL. Is it the players? Is it the coach? Might it have a great deal to do with both? Is luck involved to any degree? Good questions. If the answeres were so easy to come by then more teams would be regularly successful...wouldn\'t they?

saintz08 · 01-16-2004, 11:21 AM

It is funny you mention those two Saintsfan , because the example of balance could not be any clearer .

Dungy the defensive guru in Tampa builds a defense but cannot get the offense to fire on all cylinders .

So he leaves and takes a job where the a defense is needed to support a high powered offense . Now he is heading toward the SuperBowl .

Gruden steps in at Tampa to supply his Mastery to the offense and the Bucs win the SuperBowl .

Mora jr . has been brought in to help Atlanta shore things up on defense to balance the offensive fire power they have .

Haslett he is a former DC who\'s defenses under achieve , he is clueless .

Good balance and some film study and a team like the Titans keep knocking at the door, and a special player or system and they get the Ring .

01-13-2004, 11:11 PM	#1
JOESAM2002 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: CRYSTAL BEACH TEXAS Posts: 4,100	Great Quote! Updated: 04:37 PM EST Giants Coach Coughlin Hires Four Assistants By TOM CANAVAN, AP SPORTS "Good coaching is getting players to perform," said Coughlin, who last week hired Tim Lewis as his defensive coordinator. "All you have to do is look at the players they've coached." Talk about great quotes? I wonder if Haz has ever heard anything like this? I thought you guys might get some mileage out of this one.

01-14-2004, 11:36 AM	#2
BillyC Banned Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 842	Great Quote! I agree that getting players to perform is the job of a coach. But, how much is REALLY the coaches fault? 1. When a receiver drops passes, who\'s fault is it? 2. When someone fumbles, who\'s fault is it? You get the idea? I\'m sure Haslett and company work with the players to correct such things, but the same mistakes seem to keep happening. At that point, what should Haslett do? Do you pull the player and put someone else in? What do you do? Could Parcells make our receivers not drop passes? If he\'s capible of doing that, how does he do it? Fear of Parcells, is that it? Should Hasett have pulled Joe Horn, Brooks, Stallworth, Conwell, and others to send a message? I think coaching has a lot to do with it, but just as much, if not more, fault lies with the individual players. At least that\'s the way I see it. For the record, I do think Haslett should have told the players their starting positions were on the line if they continued to make mistakes. [Edited on 14/1/2004 by BillyC]
BillyC Banned Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 842

01-14-2004, 11:55 AM	#3
JOESAM2002 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: CRYSTAL BEACH TEXAS Posts: 4,100	Great Quote! A players job should always be on the line. If not from the coach, then from himself. These guys are professionals, they get paid to do a job. If it\'s catching a football then catch it, if it\'s blocking someone then block. To me mental lapses are unacceptable in pro sports, although we see it more and more everyday. At times I get the feeling some of these guys think, \"If I screw up , what are they going to do? Get someone else?\" Maybe thats just exactly what needs to be done. Quit coddling these guys and make them earn the hugh amounts of money they get.
	Sometimes it's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought an idiot, than to open it and remove all doubt!!!!! "Every time you think, you weaken the nation!" Moe Howard...The Three Stooges.

01-14-2004, 12:12 PM	#4
BillyC Banned Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 842	Great Quote! I see so many other teams where the tackling is just terrible. I see other teams where their receivers drop balls. But, we seem to have all those problems consistently. What has me more concerned than anything, is when we have players totally out of position. To me, that\'s a clear lack of coaching. Either that or the player is just too stupid to learn. If that\'s the case, then the coach is stupid for continuing to let that player get on the field. JoeSam touches on something I wholeheartedly agree with. Players seem to believe they are untouchable and they know they won\'t be held accountable. Some coaches, like Parcells, command respect because of their accomplishments, and players are scared to cross the line with them. But, the coach must have the FULL support of the owner. I think sometimes certain individual players are more important to the owner than the coach. What I\'m trying to say here is that a coach needs a situation where the players no the buck starts and stops with him. At that point, a coach needs to hold every player responsble for their actions, both on and off the field. If a coach doesn\'t do those things, then it\'s up to the owner to hold the coach responsible. Maybe that doesn\'t make a damn bit of sense, but I know what I\'m trying to say. Somebody help me out here?
BillyC Banned Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 842

01-14-2004, 12:24 PM	#5
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,723	Great Quote! I see so many other teams where the tackling is just terrible. I see other teams where their receivers drop balls. But, we seem to have all those problems consistently. What has me more concerned than anything, is when we have players totally out of position. To me, that\'s a clear lack of coaching. Either that or the player is just too stupid to learn. If that\'s the case, then the coach is stupid for continuing to let that player get on the field. JoeSam touches on something I wholeheartedly agree with. Players seem to believe they are untouchable and they know they won\'t be held accountable. Some coaches, like Parcells, command respect because of their accomplishments, and players are scared to cross the line with them. But, the coach must have the FULL support of the owner. I think sometimes certain individual players are more important to the owner than the coach. What I\'m trying to say here is that a coach needs a situation where the players no the buck starts and stops with him. At that point, a coach needs to hold every player responsble for their actions, both on and off the field. If a coach doesn\'t do those things, then it\'s up to the owner to hold the coach responsible. Maybe that doesn\'t make a damn bit of sense, but I know what I\'m trying to say. Somebody help me out here? JIM HASLETT HAS GOT TO BE THE LEADER ON THIS TEAM!!! Until he takes command and becomes the clear leader of the New Orleans Saints it won\'t matter how many leadership classes Brooks goes to, or how much Aaron develops as a leader. I think Jim has been criticized in the past for being too much of a hard-ass and he may have over-compensated this year by giving his guys some more freedom. Well we see that freedom as losing control of the team and the end result is there is no fear of failure. When Haz told Brooks, stop fumbling or you\'re out, Brooks play improved dramatically, I thought. Jim needs to go back to being Jim Haslett. If the players don\'t like it, so what?

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01-14-2004, 02:03 PM	#6
JKool 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 2,423	Great Quote! Danno, did you say \"leader\". For a moment the thought of discussing that again made me cringe. Oddly though, I agree. Haz does need to be a leader, but what do you want him to do as a leader? He seems pretty present during games, he seems to be involved in rewarding and punishing players (maybe not as much as he should), and he is certainly in charge of personel decisions. Billy, I think what you are trying to express is this: sometimes the coach doesn\'t have all the power he needs to enforce meaningful threats on players. If that is one of his best motivational styles, then he will have trouble actually motivating players if the owner takes that away. Here is what I think is right about Coughlin\'s quote. When a coach does well (i.e. his players perform), then it is right to say that says something about his ability. Even the best players will perform better when a good coach is on them. That means that good performance is a good indicator of a good coach. Billy\'s earlier point, and I think I agree, is just that poor performance is not as obvious an indication of poor coaching. Here is what I think the reason is: the player has the most impact on his poor performance when it comes to dropped balls, running the wrong route, and failing to fall forward - coaching can improve these things but only before the game (not during). Thus, when a player performs badly on Sunday it is more under his control than the coaches\'. However, when a player performs well, that is a combination of good coaching and good playing by the player. Thus, good performance indicates both. It is a simple fact that there are not enough good, self motivated, student of the game players at each position to disguise bad coaching. ERGO, I think Coughlin is right, if you don\'t read into his point that poor performance displays bad coaching.
	"... I was beating them with my eyes the whole game..." - Aaron Brooks

01-16-2004, 10:31 AM	#7
Cassady37 100th Post Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Kilgore, Texas Posts: 337	Great Quote! A coach has to say what he means and mean what he says. After all this time I still couldn\'t tell you what Haslett\'s philiosophy is on offense or defense. Think of the good coaches out there now, you don\'t have to think twice to know where they\'re coming from or where they\'re headed. Think Parcell\'s would put up with ANY BS from attention-grabbing players? That one of the many differences betwen good coaches and Haslett.

01-16-2004, 10:34 AM	#8
BillyC Banned Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 842	Great Quote! A coach has to say what he means and mean what he says. After all this time I still couldn\'t tell you what Haslett\'s philiosophy is on offense or defense. Think of the good coaches out there now, you don\'t have to think twice to know where they\'re coming from or where they\'re headed. Think Parcell\'s would put up with ANY BS from attention-grabbing players? That one of the many differences betwen good coaches and Haslett. I don\'t know about that. While I think we need more discipline, I think we are carring it a little too far. Let\'s compare Haslett to Jon Gruden. See any simularities this season? I do. Yet, Gruden is considered a great coach. How can that be?
BillyC Banned Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 842

01-16-2004, 11:09 AM	#9
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	Great Quote! Gruden fails to win the Superbowl with the Raiders. He comes to Tampa and takes someone else\'s team, a guy Tampa ran out of town for his failure to take the team to the next step, to the Superbowl and wins it. The following year Gruden\'s team is average at best and the guy Tampa ran out of town is on the Verge of going to the Superbowl. I guess my point is that a lot of things have to line up just right in the NFL. Is it the players? Is it the coach? Might it have a great deal to do with both? Is luck involved to any degree? Good questions. If the answeres were so easy to come by then more teams would be regularly successful...wouldn\'t they?
	C'mon Man...

01-16-2004, 11:21 AM	#10
saintz08 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 3,020	Great Quote! It is funny you mention those two Saintsfan , because the example of balance could not be any clearer . Dungy the defensive guru in Tampa builds a defense but cannot get the offense to fire on all cylinders . So he leaves and takes a job where the a defense is needed to support a high powered offense . Now he is heading toward the SuperBowl . Gruden steps in at Tampa to supply his Mastery to the offense and the Bucs win the SuperBowl . Mora jr . has been brought in to help Atlanta shore things up on defense to balance the offensive fire power they have . Haslett he is a former DC who\'s defenses under achieve , he is clueless . Good balance and some film study and a team like the Titans keep knocking at the door, and a special player or system and they get the Ring .
saintz08 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 3,020	\"Americans play to win at all times. I wouldn\'t give a hoot in hell for a man who lost and laughed.\" - George S. Patton On another note, I\'ll take a bite of that crow 08. - Saintfan Brooks is a moron!! - Halo