Sean Payton's take on the Cruz fumble

WhoDat!656 · 10-04-2011, 02:51 PM

NFL.com news: Saints' Payton: Rule makes sense but call on Cruz doesn't

AlaskaSaints · 10-04-2011, 03:37 PM

No whistle? NO dead play.

Same should go for a quarterback slide. They seem to hop right up like their butts have a whistle in it or something.

Alaska

homerj07 · 10-04-2011, 09:06 PM

Weird play - thats all I will say. Weird play

neugey · 10-04-2011, 10:30 PM

It was a tough call for the Cardinals, but this is what you get with all the vagueness in the rulebook with a player "giving himself up" versus "down by contact".

I wish the NFL would adopt the college rule - it's a whole lot simpler and more pure in my mind. If a player goes down, the play is over. It's a man law. If a player can't keep off the ground, he doesn't deserve to advance the ball any further. Why the NFL doesn't follow the college ruling is beyond me ... anyone know why this rule is so jacked up?

QBREES9 · 10-04-2011, 11:34 PM

I've never seen anything like that

The Dude · 10-05-2011, 12:22 AM

No whistle. The official has to declare him down, not the player. A player can down himself, but its not over until the official declares it down.

winmill1 · 10-05-2011, 03:52 PM

Cardinals got robbed

Saint_LB · 10-07-2011, 07:40 AM

Originally Posted by winmill1

Cardinals got robbed

You can say that the Cardinals had a "lucky break" taken away from them...maybe...but they didn't get robbed. Maybe it would've been different if they had hit him and he fumbled and they were denied the ball because of some rule. As it was, the guy saw himself being surrounded and time was an issue...holding on to the ball was an issue...so he went down.

What was amazing to me was that they actually covered that in the rule book...and according to the book, a player CAN give himself up. That's what he did, there is no doubt in my mind, so they called it properly.

Srgt. Hulka · 10-07-2011, 10:54 AM

If nobody toched him down, the defensive players started walking back to the huddle, and Cruz picked the ballup and ran it in for a touchdown, I bet the Zebras would have given him the score.

Saint_LB · 10-07-2011, 11:05 AM

Originally Posted by Srgt. Hulka

If nobody toched him down, the defensive players started walking back to the huddle, and Cruz picked the ballup and ran it in for a touchdown, I bet the Zebras would have given him the score.

I think it would have depended on the timing. According to the rule, a player can give himself up as long as he goes to the ground and makes no further attempt at advancing the ball. If he stayed on the ground for a few seconds, then got up and tried to advance...then the ref would be doing his job by not allowing it. He gave himself up.

However, if he went to the ground and then immediately popped up, as if he stumbled or something...then he could keep going.

It was pretty obvious to me that he intentionally went down...and then the fact that he popped up and left the ball where it was reinforces that. He may have thought that he was touched after that...but if he was in fact giving himself up, which it certainly appeared...then he really doesn't have to wait for someone to touch him.

The one thing that I will totally agree with that in the future he should err on the side of caution and make sure he is downed...or pop up with the ball and hand it to the ref.

10-04-2011, 02:51 PM	#1
WhoDat!656 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Shreveport,Louisiana Posts: 16,062	Sean Payton's take on the Cruz fumble NFL.com news: Saints' Payton: Rule makes sense but call on Cruz doesn't

10-04-2011, 03:37 PM	#2
AlaskaSaints 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Anchorage, AK Posts: 2,484 Blog Entries: 2	No whistle? NO dead play. Same should go for a quarterback slide. They seem to hop right up like their butts have a whistle in it or something. Alaska JoanieNTX likes this.

10-05-2011, 12:22 AM	#6
The Dude 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 9,050	No whistle. The official has to declare him down, not the player. A player can down himself, but its not over until the official declares it down.
The Dude 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 9,050

10-05-2011, 03:52 PM	#7
winmill1 100th Post Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 426	Cardinals got robbed
winmill1 100th Post Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 426

10-07-2011, 07:40 AM	#8
Saint_LB Deuce Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 2,894	Originally Posted by winmill1 Cardinals got robbed You can say that the Cardinals had a "lucky break" taken away from them...maybe...but they didn't get robbed. Maybe it would've been different if they had hit him and he fumbled and they were denied the ball because of some rule. As it was, the guy saw himself being surrounded and time was an issue...holding on to the ball was an issue...so he went down. What was amazing to me was that they actually covered that in the rule book...and according to the book, a player *CAN* give himself up. That's what he did, there is no doubt in my mind, so they called it properly.
Saint_LB Deuce Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 2,894	Whether you think you can or think you can't...you're right!

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10-04-2011, 09:06 PM	#3
homerj07 In Doh We Trust Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Central Florida Posts: 7,027 Blog Entries: 16	Weird play - thats all I will say. Weird play

10-04-2011, 10:30 PM	#4
neugey Hu Dat! Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 6,715 Blog Entries: 13	It was a tough call for the Cardinals, but this is what you get with all the vagueness in the rulebook with a player "giving himself up" versus "down by contact". I wish the NFL would adopt the college rule - it's a whole lot simpler and more pure in my mind. If a player goes down, the play is over. It's a man law. If a player can't keep off the ground, he doesn't deserve to advance the ball any further. Why the NFL doesn't follow the college ruling is beyond me ... anyone know why this rule is so jacked up?

10-04-2011, 11:34 PM	#5
QBREES9 Moderator Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: New Haven Ct Posts: 23,985	I've never seen anything like that

10-07-2011, 10:54 AM	#9
Srgt. Hulka 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Shreveport, LA Posts: 4,417	If nobody toched him down, the defensive players started walking back to the huddle, and Cruz picked the ballup and ran it in for a touchdown, I bet the Zebras would have given him the score.

10-07-2011, 11:05 AM	#10
Saint_LB Deuce Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 2,894	Originally Posted by Srgt. Hulka If nobody toched him down, the defensive players started walking back to the huddle, and Cruz picked the ballup and ran it in for a touchdown, I bet the Zebras would have given him the score. I think it would have depended on the timing. According to the rule, a player can give himself up as long as he goes to the ground and makes no further attempt at advancing the ball. If he stayed on the ground for a few seconds, then got up and tried to advance...then the ref would be doing his job by not allowing it. He gave himself up. However, if he went to the ground and then immediately popped up, as if he stumbled or something...then he could keep going. It was pretty obvious to me that he intentionally went down...and then the fact that he popped up and left the ball where it was reinforces that. He may have thought that he was touched after that...but if he was in fact giving himself up, which it certainly appeared...then he really doesn't have to wait for someone to touch him. The one thing that I will totally agree with that in the future he should err on the side of caution and make sure he is downed...or pop up with the ball and hand it to the ref.
Saint_LB Deuce Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 2,894	Whether you think you can or think you can't...you're right!