Not a debate

saintz08 · 02-02-2004, 12:48 AM

April brings new hope to some Saints fans .

And that hope is Eli Manning ..... :P

Delhommes greatest achievement in New Orleans , may have been to prove Haslett is clueless as a talent evaluator .....

ami2kind4words · 02-02-2004, 01:00 AM

I agree Jake is a better QB but by no means will I try to to rebuild my offense for Eli. Simply, I don\'t think by giving up on Brooks & Stallworth to be in position to draft Eli will be a wise decision. Just cuz Delhoumme might be a better QB is not a good enough reason to get rid of Brooks.

alsaints113 · 02-02-2004, 01:09 AM

If we get rid of anybody besides draft picks in order to draft up and get Eli....I\'m pretty sure that next season we will be having this same type of Jake/Aaron debate but with somebody else. If we\'ve learned anything, it is not to give up on what we have because we may regret it. I for one really don\'t feel like regretting anything in \'04. I want to see the Saints do what the Panthers couldn\'t....win a Lombardi trophy.

saintz08 · 02-02-2004, 01:26 AM

I agree Jake is a better QB but by no means will I try to to rebuild my offense for Eli.

Not sure you would have to rebuild the offense . Eli brings some rookie mistakes with him but he has a good understanding of the system . Certainly the option of audiblizing at the line without giving the opposing teams defensive end a free shot comes to mind .The utilization of the touch pass comes to mind . Eli , could potentially open up a new chapter in the offenseive playbook , Mc Carthy has been unable to open with Brooks .

Drop Brooks on the Chargers and swap the firsts , toss in a second which the Saints have 2 of and to sweeten the deal if necessary add a second for next year . Then get a top free agent corner , make the kept second an ILB and build defense from there .

WhoDat · 02-02-2004, 10:51 AM

Delhommes greatest achievement in New Orleans , may have been to prove Haslett is clueless as a talent evaluator .....

Really? You think?

Knight (\'02) - Supposedly not as goos a year as his Pro Bowl year in \'01.
80 tackles, 24 assists, 2 sacks, 5 INTs, 6 passes defensed.

Bellamy (\'03) - His best year ever - no doubt.
77 tackles, 17 assists, 1 sack, 3 INTs, 9 passes defensed

Or shall we compare him to Tebucky (\'03)??
51 tackels, 18 assists, 0 sacks, 1 INT, 4 passes defensed

Hmm, so Haslett dumped a solid safety and paid a ton to get a guy who didn\'t come close to producing Knight-type numbers. Well maybe it\'s just an isolated event.

Clemons (\'01 - OLB PRO BOWL)
75 tackels, 18 assists, 13.5 sacks, 1 INT, 4 passes defensed

Clemons (\'02 - ILB - apparently such a bad year that we needed to ship him out of NO)
58 tackles, 24 assists, .5 sacks, 0 INT, 9 passes defensed.

Hodge - (\'02 - best year as a Saint)
57 tackles, 17 assists, 0 sacks, 0 INTs, 4 passes defensed

Rodgers (\'03 - his best year since \'00)
57 tackles, 17 assists, 0 sacks, 1 INT, 4 passes defensed.

Smith (\'03 - as MLB)
44 tackles, 16 assists, 1 sack, 1 INT, 2 passes defensed.

Ruff (\'03)
50 tackles, 19 assists, 0 sacks, 1 INT, 3 passes defensed.

So Clemons, had better production than any other LB by far as an OLB. Haslett, not Clemons, decides to move Clemons inside. Clemons isn\'t as good at MLB b/c he\'s suited to be an OLB. DO we move him bakck to where he was a Pro Bowler a year before? Nope, we let him leave in free agency.

Want to look at the Glover comparison? Roaf? Turley?

And I\'ll bet all the dissenters are going to bring up Joe Johnson. GO ahead - he\'s been injured more than Howard. If you give Howard a pass then you have to give Johnson a pass as well.

Or we can look at the players Haslett has brought in to fill holes. Anyone want to look at their production? Let\'s start with the TE position. LOL.

Haslett? Not a good evaluator of talent? NO!

ScottyRo · 02-02-2004, 01:48 PM

Some of you seem way to quick to give Jake all the credit for keeping the Panthers in this game. Were you even watching?

At one point in the first half, Jake was 1 of 9 and his running game was being stuffed at the line.

Where are the props for the Panthers defense? They had stopped NE early and forced a FG try that was missed. Later they stopped NE and forced another FG try which was blocked. There\'s some special teams effort for ya! The D didn\'t allow a TD until Brady threw one with about 3 minutes to go in the second. At the end of the half it was 14-10. Sure Jake had thrown a TD, but the special teams got them the ball on their 47 after the patriots scored to make it 14-7. Then S. Davis busted a nice run to put the Panthers in FG position - and they converted. Surely you can\'t attribute that to Jake.

Jake did one heck of a job leading his team back from 21-10 and getting the lead, but the defense and the special teams kept the Panthers in this game early while Jake looked more like a \"fake\".

Like I said, he played a great 32 minutes, but he doesn\'t deserve ALL the glory. Just think how many scores they didn\'t make while he was going 1 for 9.

Just calling it the way it was....

ami2kind4words · 02-02-2004, 04:04 PM

Scotty,
I am noy saying he is PERFECT or the best nfl QB. He just played the patriot\'s defense better than ALL the QB that they faced. Panther\'s running game was shut down. Defense was being worn out. Jake deserve ALL the credit that he received, cuz this would have been a blow out. Comments on Jake don\'t make Brook a better or worst QB. I am Brook fan but I will give credit to Jake cuz he deserve it.

saintz08 · 02-02-2004, 05:04 PM

Some of you seem way to quick to give Jake all the credit for keeping the Panthers in this game. Were you even watching?

At one point in the first half, Jake was 1 of 9 and his running game was being stuffed at the line.

You mean we are giving Jake too much credit for being the quarterback of a team that clearly loves to run the with Davis , now Davis goes 9 for 19 yards in the first half and finishes the day at 13 for 49 yards with 22 of them on one play .

Jake with no running game against a top 10 defense puts up 29 points .

Hmmm , no credit deserved .

Any idea how many points Brooks put up against the Patriots the last time they played ???

ScottyRo · 02-02-2004, 09:47 PM

Ai2k4w, you said:

Comments on Jake don\'t make Brook a better or worst QB. I am Brook fan but I will give credit to Jake cuz he deserve it.

Now correct me if I\'m wrong, but I never mentioned or even alluded to the Saints or any other team or Brooks or any other player in the NFL besides those that were on the two teams that played in the superbowl. Why must you bring up AB? I was simply discussing yesterday\'s game. I didn\'t say Jake didn\'t have a good game. I said the rest of his team deserves more credit. He didn\'t do it alone as some were implying and others were saying explicitly.

Saintz08:

Any idea how many points Brooks put up against the Patriots the last time they played ???

Again, what does Brooks have to do with my comments? I never said anything even close to being a comparison between AB and Jake. PLus, I never said Jake didn\'t deserve credit for his performance. I said he doesn\'t deserve ALL the credit. I said that if not for the D and the special teams in the first half the Panthers would have been hopelessly out of the game.

Gator...

Every radio station, Media broadcast, NFL films etc will all say JAKE performed very well and Almost led his team to victory.

All of those organizations will agree with me that Jake had a horrible 27-28 minutes to open the game. Can there really be any question about that? I gave him credit for turning it around. What more do you want?

(Refering to his above statement) That may piss off people here. And if it does you need to reexamine what the game of football is all about.

Why is it that you can root for delhomme and that\'s fine, but if I say he had a bad first half you declare that I need to reexamine the game of football?

To say,\"he didn\'t win with the Saints so I hope he loses\" is the most BS childish reasoning I\'ve ever heard.

That attitude is a Class-less and reaks of Poor Sportsmanship! But its a free country.

First, I never said anything of the sort. I never mentioned the Saints or AB. I only discussed the game yesterday. Second, I don\'t think someone who is constantly being edited for content and who continuously breaks the rules of the forum should have the right to proclaim another as being classless. I hope your decorum towards the court is better than it is towards the members of this forum because, if not, you\'re going to need lots of money for contempt fines.

But, hey, you were right about one thing...it is a free country.

alsaints113 · 02-02-2004, 10:47 PM

ScottyRo,

You\'re wasting your breath. I made comments that attempted people to get behind the Saints and forget about Jake (we have to move on people). And like you when I made comments that were not meant to start a debate and supported neither Delhomme or Brooks, it was turned into a debate. In fact I posted a congratulations to Jake and gave him his just dues for a fine performance yesterday and other comments I made were thrown back at me. It seems every sentence I type is interpreted as some type of Delhomme sucks and Brooks is God statement by these same people. In short, they love Delhomme, are narrow minded, and will not listen to whatever you say. They only have one agenda....tell everyone how stupid and crappy the Saints are for letting Jake go and Aaron Brooks is horrible and if you even hint to the contrary...get ready for their smart ass comments. Now I know why BillyC was kicked out temporarily way back when (he thinks much like me). I for one am staying away until people can learn how to discuss matters in a more open minded fashion.

02-02-2004, 12:48 AM	#11
saintz08 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 3,020	Not a debate April brings new hope to some Saints fans . And that hope is Eli Manning ..... :P Delhommes greatest achievement in New Orleans , may have been to prove Haslett is clueless as a talent evaluator .....
saintz08 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 3,020

02-02-2004, 01:00 AM	#12
ami2kind4words 100th Post Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 149	Not a debate I agree Jake is a better QB but by no means will I try to to rebuild my offense for Eli. Simply, I don\'t think by giving up on Brooks & Stallworth to be in position to draft Eli will be a wise decision. Just cuz Delhoumme might be a better QB is not a good enough reason to get rid of Brooks.
ami2kind4words 100th Post Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 149

02-02-2004, 01:09 AM	#13
alsaints113 Registered Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 95	Not a debate If we get rid of anybody besides draft picks in order to draft up and get Eli....I\'m pretty sure that next season we will be having this same type of Jake/Aaron debate but with somebody else. If we\'ve learned anything, it is not to give up on what we have because we may regret it. I for one really don\'t feel like regretting anything in \'04. I want to see the Saints do what the Panthers couldn\'t....win a Lombardi trophy.
alsaints113 Registered Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 95

02-02-2004, 01:26 AM	#14
saintz08 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 3,020	Not a debate I agree Jake is a better QB but by no means will I try to to rebuild my offense for Eli. Not sure you would have to rebuild the offense . Eli brings some rookie mistakes with him but he has a good understanding of the system . Certainly the option of audiblizing at the line without giving the opposing teams defensive end a free shot comes to mind .The utilization of the touch pass comes to mind . Eli , could potentially open up a new chapter in the offenseive playbook , Mc Carthy has been unable to open with Brooks . Drop Brooks on the Chargers and swap the firsts , toss in a second which the Saints have 2 of and to sweeten the deal if necessary add a second for next year . Then get a top free agent corner , make the kept second an ILB and build defense from there .
saintz08 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 3,020	\"Americans play to win at all times. I wouldn\'t give a hoot in hell for a man who lost and laughed.\" - George S. Patton On another note, I\'ll take a bite of that crow 08. - Saintfan Brooks is a moron!! - Halo

02-02-2004, 10:51 AM	#15
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	Not a debate Delhommes greatest achievement in New Orleans , may have been to prove Haslett is clueless as a talent evaluator ..... Really? You think? Knight (\'02) - Supposedly not as goos a year as his Pro Bowl year in \'01. 80 tackles, 24 assists, 2 sacks, 5 INTs, 6 passes defensed. Bellamy (\'03) - His best year ever - no doubt. 77 tackles, 17 assists, 1 sack, 3 INTs, 9 passes defensed Or shall we compare him to Tebucky (\'03)?? 51 tackels, 18 assists, 0 sacks, 1 INT, 4 passes defensed Hmm, so Haslett dumped a solid safety and paid a ton to get a guy who didn\'t come close to producing Knight-type numbers. Well maybe it\'s just an isolated event. Clemons (\'01 - OLB PRO BOWL) 75 tackels, 18 assists, 13.5 sacks, 1 INT, 4 passes defensed Clemons (\'02 - ILB - apparently such a bad year that we needed to ship him out of NO) 58 tackles, 24 assists, .5 sacks, 0 INT, 9 passes defensed. Hodge - (\'02 - best year as a Saint) 57 tackles, 17 assists, 0 sacks, 0 INTs, 4 passes defensed Rodgers (\'03 - his best year since \'00) 57 tackles, 17 assists, 0 sacks, 1 INT, 4 passes defensed. Smith (\'03 - as MLB) 44 tackles, 16 assists, 1 sack, 1 INT, 2 passes defensed. Ruff (\'03) 50 tackles, 19 assists, 0 sacks, 1 INT, 3 passes defensed. So Clemons, had better production than any other LB by far as an OLB. Haslett, not Clemons, decides to move Clemons inside. Clemons isn\'t as good at MLB b/c he\'s suited to be an OLB. DO we move him bakck to where he was a Pro Bowler a year before? Nope, we let him leave in free agency. Want to look at the Glover comparison? Roaf? Turley? And I\'ll bet all the dissenters are going to bring up Joe Johnson. GO ahead - he\'s been injured more than Howard. If you give Howard a pass then you have to give Johnson a pass as well. Or we can look at the players Haslett has brought in to fill holes. Anyone want to look at their production? Let\'s start with the TE position. LOL. Haslett? Not a good evaluator of talent? NO!
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. ThatÃ¢Â€Â™s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans SaintsÃ¢Â€Â™ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse \"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\" he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"

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02-02-2004, 01:48 PM	#16
ScottyRo 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Williamsburg, VA (ugh, the food here) Posts: 1,704	Not a debate Some of you seem way to quick to give Jake all the credit for keeping the Panthers in this game. Were you even watching? At one point in the first half, Jake was 1 of 9 and his running game was being stuffed at the line. Where are the props for the Panthers defense? They had stopped NE early and forced a FG try that was missed. Later they stopped NE and forced another FG try which was blocked. There\'s some special teams effort for ya! The D didn\'t allow a TD until Brady threw one with about 3 minutes to go in the second. At the end of the half it was 14-10. Sure Jake had thrown a TD, but the special teams got them the ball on their 47 after the patriots scored to make it 14-7. Then S. Davis busted a nice run to put the Panthers in FG position - and they converted. Surely you can\'t attribute that to Jake. Jake did one heck of a job leading his team back from 21-10 and getting the lead, but the defense and the special teams kept the Panthers in this game early while Jake looked more like a \"fake\". Like I said, he played a great 32 minutes, but he doesn\'t deserve ALL the glory. Just think how many scores they didn\'t make while he was going 1 for 9. Just calling it the way it was....

02-02-2004, 04:04 PM	#17
ami2kind4words 100th Post Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 149	Not a debate Scotty, I am noy saying he is PERFECT or the best nfl QB. He just played the patriot\'s defense better than ALL the QB that they faced. Panther\'s running game was shut down. Defense was being worn out. Jake deserve ALL the credit that he received, cuz this would have been a blow out. Comments on Jake don\'t make Brook a better or worst QB. I am Brook fan but I will give credit to Jake cuz he deserve it.
ami2kind4words 100th Post Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 149

02-02-2004, 05:04 PM	#18
saintz08 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 3,020	Not a debate Some of you seem way to quick to give Jake all the credit for keeping the Panthers in this game. Were you even watching? At one point in the first half, Jake was 1 of 9 and his running game was being stuffed at the line. You mean we are giving Jake too much credit for being the quarterback of a team that clearly loves to run the with Davis , now Davis goes 9 for 19 yards in the first half and finishes the day at 13 for 49 yards with 22 of them on one play . Jake with no running game against a top 10 defense puts up 29 points . Hmmm , no credit deserved . Any idea how many points Brooks put up against the Patriots the last time they played ???
saintz08 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 3,020

02-02-2004, 09:47 PM	#19
ScottyRo 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Williamsburg, VA (ugh, the food here) Posts: 1,704	Not a debate Ai2k4w, you said: Comments on Jake don\'t make Brook a better or worst QB. I am Brook fan but I will give credit to Jake cuz he deserve it. Now correct me if I\'m wrong, but I never mentioned or even alluded to the Saints or any other team or Brooks or any other player in the NFL besides those that were on the two teams that played in the superbowl. Why must you bring up AB? I was simply discussing yesterday\'s game. I didn\'t say Jake didn\'t have a good game. I said the rest of his team deserves more credit. He didn\'t do it alone as some were implying and others were saying explicitly. Saintz08: Any idea how many points Brooks put up against the Patriots the last time they played ??? Again, what does Brooks have to do with my comments? I never said anything even close to being a comparison between AB and Jake. PLus, I never said Jake didn\'t deserve credit for his performance. I said he doesn\'t deserve ALL the credit. I said that if not for the D and the special teams in the first half the Panthers would have been hopelessly out of the game. Gator... Every radio station, Media broadcast, NFL films etc will all say JAKE performed very well and Almost led his team to victory. All of those organizations will agree with me that Jake had a horrible 27-28 minutes to open the game. Can there really be any question about that? I gave him credit for turning it around. What more do you want? (Refering to his above statement) That may piss off people here. And if it does you need to reexamine what the game of football is all about. Why is it that you can root for delhomme and that\'s fine, but if I say he had a bad first half you declare that I need to reexamine the game of football? To say,\"he didn\'t win with the Saints so I hope he loses\" is the most BS childish reasoning I\'ve ever heard. That attitude is a Class-less and reaks of Poor Sportsmanship! But its a free country. First, I never said anything of the sort. I never mentioned the Saints or AB. I only discussed the game yesterday. Second, I don\'t think someone who is constantly being edited for content and who continuously breaks the rules of the forum should have the right to proclaim another as being classless. I hope your decorum towards the court is better than it is towards the members of this forum because, if not, you\'re going to need lots of money for contempt fines. But, hey, you were right about one thing...it is a free country.

02-02-2004, 10:47 PM	#20
alsaints113 Registered Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 95	Not a debate ScottyRo, You\'re wasting your breath. I made comments that attempted people to get behind the Saints and forget about Jake (we have to move on people). And like you when I made comments that were not meant to start a debate and supported neither Delhomme or Brooks, it was turned into a debate. In fact I posted a congratulations to Jake and gave him his just dues for a fine performance yesterday and other comments I made were thrown back at me. It seems every sentence I type is interpreted as some type of Delhomme sucks and Brooks is God statement by these same people. In short, they love Delhomme, are narrow minded, and will not listen to whatever you say. They only have one agenda....tell everyone how stupid and crappy the Saints are for letting Jake go and Aaron Brooks is horrible and if you even hint to the contrary...get ready for their smart ass comments. Now I know why BillyC was kicked out temporarily way back when (he thinks much like me). I for one am staying away until people can learn how to discuss matters in a more open minded fashion.
alsaints113 Registered Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 95