Take the Cap Hit Now

vulture · 03-23-2004, 11:47 PM

Well, said BMG.

Cadillac · 03-24-2004, 07:40 AM

BMG, it\'s just so frustrating because your pipe dream DOES NOT MAKE SENSE.

If Brooks is so terrible, how are we going to get a top 2 draft pick with him?

We\'d have to deal away other draft picks!
And sending away these draft pick DOWNGRADES the QB position for the next 3 seasons, with no guarentee that Eli will ever be a better player than Brooks.

And if we have to deal away our top draft picks this year, what would you rather us do? Maybe address CB and LB in next years draft?

Like I understand you\'re been daydreaming about Eli winning us a Superbowl, and that\'s fine, it\'s no more farfetched than the daydreams I\'ve been having about Alicia Keys.... But I don\'t feel inclined to post information about my daydreams every day!

26DEUCE26 · 03-24-2004, 07:55 AM

I sure hope you\'re not right BMG. If we don\'t make the playoffs this year we need to make a coaching change. This is the make or break year.

BrooksMustGo · 03-24-2004, 09:27 AM

BMG, it\'s just so frustrating because your pipe dream DOES NOT MAKE SENSE.
If Brooks is so terrible, how are we going to get a top 2 draft pick with him?

It\'s really pretty reasonable. Brooks is a sandlot player. I don\'t think Brooks is horrible--or he\'d never manage to post 3500 yards. I do think that Brooks has basically topped out, this is as good as he\'s ever going to be. If we are content to stay at 8-8, then by all means lets keep him. He is, after all, the devil we know. I was under the impression tht we wanted to seriously try to make a move in the playoffs.

However, when you compare him to the Chargers QB\'s in Flutie and Brees, it doesn\'t matter whether Brooks is terrible, it\'s about whether he would be terrible to THEM. I think we could all agree that Brooks would upgrade the QB situation in San Diego. As I have said before, I bet that the Chargers would LOVE to be 8-8 next season.

We\'d have to deal away other draft picks!
And sending away these draft pick DOWNGRADES the QB position for the next 3 seasons, with no guarentee that Eli will ever be a better player than Brooks.

Actually, I would offer Pathon and Brooks. They need both positions. If they really wanted to play hardball, I\'d think about offering Brooks and Horn, but then I\'d want their first 2 picks and maybe one next year. But yes, we\'d probably have to offer up a pick, but I\'m not sure we\'d have to offer up #18.

I\'m not sure that Eli downgrades the position. But you are right, he is unproven as an NFL player, it is a risk. He could be a bust. I don\'t think anyone on the board really believes that. I think more folks believe he will take more time to develop than Peyton but will end up being a good to great NFL QB. But it is a risk. We could stay right where we are with a player that is good for 8-8 and take no risk. But we also take no risk of going deep into the playoffs either. He\'s a known commodity and what we know is that Brooks can\'t get it done.

I\'m proposing that we deal Brooks while people still believe that he is an up and coming QB with potential. In another year his salary doubles and he becomes more difficult to deal. We have the cap space now, let\'s absorb the hit now since we aren\'t going to use the money anyway. So we deal Brooks take the hit this year and have that cap room available next year. We aren\'t using it anyway, we will have 6-8 million in cap room all season long, so let\'s just deal Brooks.

And if we have to deal away our top draft picks this year, what would you rather us do? Maybe address CB and LB in next years draft?

In all the time Haslett has been here, there has been no meaningful move to address either of these positions. I\'m not convinced that he\'ll do it this year either. So even if we take no risks and settle for the same thing as we\'ve always had, he still might end up taking a WR and a DT and a OT with our first 3 picks. So we\'d still be having the CB, LB discussion next year anyway.

But just for fun, let\'s suppose that we could get the #1 pick and keep #18. Maybe we could get by with just giving up a 2nd rounder and a 3rd rounder this year? Could we not address the CB or LB position? Or even draft a WR or DT? I\'m not suggesting that we trade our entire draft to get a real franchise QB, I\'m suggesting that we deal a couple of players that will have no more value than they have right now to get the #1 pick and then address other need areas.

I sure hope you\'re not right BMG. If we don\'t make the playoffs this year we need to make a coaching change. This is the make or break year.

I hope I\'m not right too. Let\'s say that we draft some combination of LB and CB with our first 3 picks as it stands right now. It seems kind of reasonable that we might have to start a rookie at either position. Haslett\'s excuses will be the same either way if we go 8-8 and miss the playoffs, \"We have rookies at CB and LB, what do you expect?\" Thus giving him a new lease on life. If he\'s going to use the excuse anyway, why not have Eli?

steub12 · 03-24-2004, 01:01 PM

A little therapy for yourself - REPEAT AFTER ME!!!!!

WE ARE NOT GOING TO DRAFT ELI MANNING!!!!!!!WE ARE NOT GOING TO DRAFT ELI MANNING!!!!!!!WE ARE NOT GOING TO DRAFT ELI MANNING!!!!!!!WE ARE NOT GOING TWE ARE NOT GOING TO DRAFT ELI MANNING!!!!!!!O DRAFT ELI MANNING!!!!!!!WE ARE NOT GOING TO DRAFT ELI MANNING!!!!!!!WE ARE NOT GOING TO DRAFT ELI MANNING!!!!!!!WE ARE NOT GOING TO DRAFT ELI MANNING!!!!!!!WE ARE NOT GOING TO DRAFT ELI MANNING!!!!!!!WE ARE NOT GOING TO DRAFT ELI MANNING!!!!!!!
WE ARE NOT GOING TO DRAFT ELI MANNING!!!!!!!WE ARE NOT GOING TO DRAFT ELI MANNING!!!!!!!WE ARE NOT GOING TO DRAFT ELI MANNING!!!!!!!

GET OVER THE IDEA!!!!!! :casstet: :casstet: :casstet: :casstet:

saintz08 · 03-24-2004, 01:19 PM

A little therapy for yourself - REPEAT AFTER ME!!!!!

A little therapy for yourself - REPEAT AFTER ME!!!!!

Freedom of speech is a constitutionally protected right .

Maybe this will help you understand , this soldier died protecting the right . He might have been a Saints fan .

Pfc. Wilfred D. Bellard 20 41st Field Artillery Regiment, 3rd Infantry Division Lake Charles, Louisiana Killed when his vehicle fell into a ravine in Iraq on April 4, 2003

steub12 · 03-24-2004, 01:42 PM

No one is trying to stop anyone\'s right to free speech. However, people need to get the idea that AB may/will/should be traded because it is not going to happen. If they don\'t pull him out when he is hurt, they certainly aren\'t going to get rid of him after his best statistical season. I find more fault in the staff\'s handling of him than I do his play. Just look at the games which our offense looked the best (granted, against BAD defenses) - we were airing it out, therefore the underneath routs opened up and Deuce had some very nice running lanes. If we could find the same creativity in our play-calling game-to-game, our team would be much more successful. Look at the progression he has made as a quarterback. To throw only 8 interceptions in 515 attempts in the NFL is pretty darn good. You see him not forcing the ball - instead he is throwing the ball away. Sure, I wish he would hold onto the ball more often, however our beloved Jake had more fumbles, only HIS team recovered a majority. There were MANY more QB\'s in the league with more turnovers but they had a strong-enough defense to atone for the mistakes. Sorry I was so long-winded, I just had to get that off my chest!

No one is trying to stop anyone\'s right to free speech

In this forum , you will respect it . You may or may not agree with someones thoughts but you will respect their right to post them in this forum .

[Edited on 25/3/2004 by saintz08]

Cadillac · 03-24-2004, 02:17 PM

If we are content to stay at 8-8, then by all means lets keep him. He is, after all, the devil we know. I was under the impression tht we wanted to seriously try to make a move in the playoffs.

Brooks is more than good enough to make a move in the playoffs. In fact Brooks is the only Saints QB who has EVER made a move in the playoffs. (And yeah, that includes Archie Manning.)

To win the Superbowl nowadays, you need a lot of depth, a good overall team, and a lot of luck. You DO NOT need a superstar QB. The past five Superbowl winners are all proof of that..
Tom Brady was a sixth round round pick, he\'s won it twice.
Brad Johnson was a NINTH round pick.
Kurt Warner wasn\'t even drafted.
The only first round draft pick of the bunch??
Trent Dilfer, and I\'d hardly call him instrumental to the Ravens success.

Actually, I would offer Pathon and Brooks.

Individually, Pathon is maybe worth about a 5th round pick and Brooks could get us a high second. Thats not even gonna be close to get us the number one pick.

If they really wanted to play hardball, I\'d think about offering Brooks and Horn, but then I\'d want their first 2 picks and maybe one next year.

Not only would they be crazy to accept this trade, but the Chargers would not be able to pick up both players salaries.

But yes, we\'d probably have to offer up a pick

Exactly.

I think more folks believe he will take more time to develop than Peyton but will end up being a good to great NFL QB. But it is a risk.

We already have a good NFL QB. Why take the risk and lose players or picks in the process?

We could stay right where we are with a player that is good for 8-8 and take no risk. But we also take no risk of going deep into the playoffs either. He\'s a known commodity and what we know is that Brooks can\'t get it done.

You\'re logic is terribly flawed here. Brooks has not yet went far into the playoffs (although he went farther than any other Saints QB). Just because he hasn\'t does not mean he won\'t. According to your logic, last year Peyton Manning would not go far into the playoffs, because he hadn\'t \"got it done\" yet. If Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson can go the whole way, with the right team AB could easily go the whole way too. He is more talented than both those players.

In all the time Haslett has been here, there has been no meaningful move to address either of these positions. I\'m not convinced that he\'ll do it this year either.

Ambrose, Carter, Rodgers.... Just because these players haven\'t worked out as well as expected does not mean that the FO has neglected to address the positions. That said, I can\'t defend why Haz didn\'t make a move for Plummer or Bryant, as I thought both these players would of helped our D at a fair price. Why Haz ddin\'t make a move on a CB this offseason though, is a whole different topic.

saintfan · 03-24-2004, 02:19 PM

Freedom of speech is a constitutionally protected right .

Yes, it is, but you can\'t yell bomb on an airplane cause it pizzez people off. Just because a person has the constitutional right to speak silly things doesn\'t mean they really should.

Cadillac · 03-24-2004, 02:36 PM

And I hate to get political, but the war in Iraq has nothing to do with freedom of speech.

03-23-2004, 11:47 PM	#11
vulture Registered Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 83	Take the Cap Hit Now Well, said BMG.
vulture Registered Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 83

03-24-2004, 07:40 AM	#12
Cadillac 100th Post Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 121	Take the Cap Hit Now BMG, it\'s just so frustrating because your pipe dream DOES NOT MAKE SENSE. If Brooks is so terrible, how are we going to get a top 2 draft pick with him? We\'d have to deal away other draft picks! And sending away these draft pick DOWNGRADES the QB position for the next 3 seasons, with no guarentee that Eli will ever be a better player than Brooks. And if we have to deal away our top draft picks this year, what would you rather us do? Maybe address CB and LB in next years draft? Like I understand you\'re been daydreaming about Eli winning us a Superbowl, and that\'s fine, it\'s no more farfetched than the daydreams I\'ve been having about Alicia Keys.... But I don\'t feel inclined to post information about my daydreams every day!
Cadillac 100th Post Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 121	\'They want to give me $6 million. What do I do? - Fred Thomas

03-24-2004, 07:55 AM	#13
26DEUCE26 100th Post Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 116	Take the Cap Hit Now I sure hope you\'re not right BMG. If we don\'t make the playoffs this year we need to make a coaching change. This is the make or break year.
26DEUCE26 100th Post Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 116

03-24-2004, 09:27 AM	#14
BrooksMustGo 1000 Posts + Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,762	Take the Cap Hit Now BMG, it\'s just so frustrating because your pipe dream DOES NOT MAKE SENSE. If Brooks is so terrible, how are we going to get a top 2 draft pick with him? It\'s really pretty reasonable. Brooks is a sandlot player. I don\'t think Brooks is horrible--or he\'d never manage to post 3500 yards. I do think that Brooks has basically topped out, this is as good as he\'s ever going to be. If we are content to stay at 8-8, then by all means lets keep him. He is, after all, the devil we know. I was under the impression tht we wanted to seriously try to make a move in the playoffs. However, when you compare him to the Chargers QB\'s in Flutie and Brees, it doesn\'t matter whether Brooks is terrible, it\'s about whether he would be terrible to THEM. I think we could all agree that Brooks would upgrade the QB situation in San Diego. As I have said before, I bet that the Chargers would LOVE to be 8-8 next season. We\'d have to deal away other draft picks! And sending away these draft pick DOWNGRADES the QB position for the next 3 seasons, with no guarentee that Eli will ever be a better player than Brooks. Actually, I would offer Pathon and Brooks. They need both positions. If they really wanted to play hardball, I\'d think about offering Brooks and Horn, but then I\'d want their first 2 picks and maybe one next year. But yes, we\'d probably have to offer up a pick, but I\'m not sure we\'d have to offer up #18. I\'m not sure that Eli downgrades the position. But you are right, he is unproven as an NFL player, it is a risk. He could be a bust. I don\'t think anyone on the board really believes that. I think more folks believe he will take more time to develop than Peyton but will end up being a good to great NFL QB. But it is a risk. We could stay right where we are with a player that is good for 8-8 and take no risk. But we also take no risk of going deep into the playoffs either. He\'s a known commodity and what we know is that Brooks can\'t get it done. I\'m proposing that we deal Brooks while people still believe that he is an up and coming QB with potential. In another year his salary doubles and he becomes more difficult to deal. We have the cap space now, let\'s absorb the hit now since we aren\'t going to use the money anyway. So we deal Brooks take the hit this year and have that cap room available next year. We aren\'t using it anyway, we will have 6-8 million in cap room all season long, so let\'s just deal Brooks. And if we have to deal away our top draft picks this year, what would you rather us do? Maybe address CB and LB in next years draft? In all the time Haslett has been here, there has been no meaningful move to address either of these positions. I\'m not convinced that he\'ll do it this year either. So even if we take no risks and settle for the same thing as we\'ve always had, he still might end up taking a WR and a DT and a OT with our first 3 picks. So we\'d still be having the CB, LB discussion next year anyway. But just for fun, let\'s suppose that we could get the #1 pick and keep #18. Maybe we could get by with just giving up a 2nd rounder and a 3rd rounder this year? Could we not address the CB or LB position? Or even draft a WR or DT? I\'m not suggesting that we trade our entire draft to get a real franchise QB, I\'m suggesting that we deal a couple of players that will have no more value than they have right now to get the #1 pick and then address other need areas. I sure hope you\'re not right BMG. If we don\'t make the playoffs this year we need to make a coaching change. This is the make or break year. I hope I\'m not right too. Let\'s say that we draft some combination of LB and CB with our first 3 picks as it stands right now. It seems kind of reasonable that we might have to start a rookie at either position. Haslett\'s excuses will be the same either way if we go 8-8 and miss the playoffs, \"We have rookies at CB and LB, what do you expect?\" Thus giving him a new lease on life. If he\'s going to use the excuse anyway, why not have Eli?
	http://www.blackandgold.net/site/signature/buddysig.jpg

03-24-2004, 01:01 PM	#15
steub12 Rookie Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 21	Take the Cap Hit Now A little therapy for yourself - REPEAT AFTER ME!!!!! WE ARE NOT GOING TO DRAFT ELI MANNING!!!!!!!WE ARE NOT GOING TO DRAFT ELI MANNING!!!!!!!WE ARE NOT GOING TO DRAFT ELI MANNING!!!!!!!WE ARE NOT GOING TWE ARE NOT GOING TO DRAFT ELI MANNING!!!!!!!O DRAFT ELI MANNING!!!!!!!WE ARE NOT GOING TO DRAFT ELI MANNING!!!!!!!WE ARE NOT GOING TO DRAFT ELI MANNING!!!!!!!WE ARE NOT GOING TO DRAFT ELI MANNING!!!!!!!WE ARE NOT GOING TO DRAFT ELI MANNING!!!!!!!WE ARE NOT GOING TO DRAFT ELI MANNING!!!!!!! WE ARE NOT GOING TO DRAFT ELI MANNING!!!!!!!WE ARE NOT GOING TO DRAFT ELI MANNING!!!!!!!WE ARE NOT GOING TO DRAFT ELI MANNING!!!!!!! GET OVER THE IDEA!!!!!! :casstet: :casstet: :casstet: :casstet:
steub12 Rookie Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 21

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03-24-2004, 01:19 PM	#16
saintz08 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 3,020	Take the Cap Hit Now A little therapy for yourself - REPEAT AFTER ME!!!!! A little therapy for yourself - REPEAT AFTER ME!!!!! Freedom of speech is a constitutionally protected right . Maybe this will help you understand , this soldier died protecting the right . He might have been a Saints fan . Pfc. Wilfred D. Bellard 20 41st Field Artillery Regiment, 3rd Infantry Division Lake Charles, Louisiana Killed when his vehicle fell into a ravine in Iraq on April 4, 2003
saintz08 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 3,020

03-24-2004, 01:42 PM	#17
steub12 Rookie Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 21	Take the Cap Hit Now No one is trying to stop anyone\'s right to free speech. However, people need to get the idea that AB may/will/should be traded because it is not going to happen. If they don\'t pull him out when he is hurt, they certainly aren\'t going to get rid of him after his best statistical season. I find more fault in the staff\'s handling of him than I do his play. Just look at the games which our offense looked the best (granted, against BAD defenses) - we were airing it out, therefore the underneath routs opened up and Deuce had some very nice running lanes. If we could find the same creativity in our play-calling game-to-game, our team would be much more successful. Look at the progression he has made as a quarterback. To throw only 8 interceptions in 515 attempts in the NFL is pretty darn good. You see him not forcing the ball - instead he is throwing the ball away. Sure, I wish he would hold onto the ball more often, however our beloved Jake had more fumbles, only HIS team recovered a majority. There were MANY more QB\'s in the league with more turnovers but they had a strong-enough defense to atone for the mistakes. Sorry I was so long-winded, I just had to get that off my chest! No one is trying to stop anyone\'s right to free speech In this forum , you will respect it . You may or may not agree with someones thoughts but you will respect their right to post them in this forum . [Edited on 25/3/2004 by saintz08]
steub12 Rookie Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 21

03-24-2004, 02:17 PM	#18
Cadillac 100th Post Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 121	Take the Cap Hit Now If we are content to stay at 8-8, then by all means lets keep him. He is, after all, the devil we know. I was under the impression tht we wanted to seriously try to make a move in the playoffs. Brooks is more than good enough to make a move in the playoffs. In fact Brooks is the only Saints QB who has EVER made a move in the playoffs. (And yeah, that includes Archie Manning.) To win the Superbowl nowadays, you need a lot of depth, a good overall team, and a lot of luck. You DO NOT need a superstar QB. The past five Superbowl winners are all proof of that.. Tom Brady was a sixth round round pick, he\'s won it twice. Brad Johnson was a NINTH round pick. Kurt Warner wasn\'t even drafted. The only first round draft pick of the bunch?? Trent Dilfer, and I\'d hardly call him instrumental to the Ravens success. Actually, I would offer Pathon and Brooks. Individually, Pathon is maybe worth about a 5th round pick and Brooks could get us a high second. Thats not even gonna be close to get us the number one pick. If they really wanted to play hardball, I\'d think about offering Brooks and Horn, but then I\'d want their first 2 picks and maybe one next year. Not only would they be crazy to accept this trade, but the Chargers would not be able to pick up both players salaries. But yes, we\'d probably have to offer up a pick Exactly. I think more folks believe he will take more time to develop than Peyton but will end up being a good to great NFL QB. But it is a risk. We already have a good NFL QB. Why take the risk and lose players or picks in the process? We could stay right where we are with a player that is good for 8-8 and take no risk. But we also take no risk of going deep into the playoffs either. He\'s a known commodity and what we know is that Brooks can\'t get it done. You\'re logic is terribly flawed here. Brooks has not yet went far into the playoffs (although he went farther than any other Saints QB). Just because he hasn\'t does not mean he won\'t. According to your logic, last year Peyton Manning would not go far into the playoffs, because he hadn\'t \"got it done\" yet. If Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson can go the whole way, with the right team AB could easily go the whole way too. He is more talented than both those players. In all the time Haslett has been here, there has been no meaningful move to address either of these positions. I\'m not convinced that he\'ll do it this year either. Ambrose, Carter, Rodgers.... Just because these players haven\'t worked out as well as expected does not mean that the FO has neglected to address the positions. That said, I can\'t defend why Haz didn\'t make a move for Plummer or Bryant, as I thought both these players would of helped our D at a fair price. Why Haz ddin\'t make a move on a CB this offseason though, is a whole different topic.
Cadillac 100th Post Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 121	\'They want to give me $6 million. What do I do? - Fred Thomas

03-24-2004, 02:19 PM	#19
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	Take the Cap Hit Now Freedom of speech is a constitutionally protected right . Yes, it is, but you can\'t yell bomb on an airplane cause it pizzez people off. Just because a person has the constitutional right to speak silly things doesn\'t mean they really should.

03-24-2004, 02:36 PM	#20
Cadillac 100th Post Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 121	Take the Cap Hit Now And I hate to get political, but the war in Iraq has nothing to do with freedom of speech.
Cadillac 100th Post Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 121