Take the Cap Hit Now
 

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/column...len&id=1763194

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At this point in free agency, I just don't see us spending any of that cap money we have on restricted free agents. Even if you figure in the entire rookie pool and getting Deuce a new deal, we still aren't going to come within shouting distance of our available cash.

Since we've already paid out the big bonus money on Brooks, let's go ahead an deal him before his cap number doubles in the 2005 season and jump up to get Eli.

If there was ever a season that we could take the big hit with no real consequences, it's right now. It's as if the fates had ordained us to bring Eli to the Crescent City. When Eli wins his first superbowl in the Dome, I'd like to see him wearing black and gold instead of black and silver.

Take the Cap Hit Now
 

You\'re persistant BNB...delusional, but Persistant. This love you have for Eli isn\'t healthy man.

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WHAT??? I\'m not even a part of this discussion. Sheesh, you\'re laying the wood pretty early this morning.

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So what are we thinkin here ???

6 foot Eli Manning Banner here , strapped to the gates of Airline dr ?????

Eli for Saints quarterback in 2004 , markers along the roadside ??

Let them clearly get the mesage .

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Ok, ok...that\'s the second time I\'ve done that to you. I\'m sure you can see why...obviously I meant BMG. ...but then you knew that already. :P

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I\'m not convinced that Haslett can read. Maybe if we could find some life size cardboard cut-outs of Eli to line the road with.

Or maybe a trail of Eli pictures, posters, etc between Haz\'s office and the Saintsations locker-room?

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Does Eli\'s Grilfriend know about you two? :P

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And Brooks cannot read defenses , so at least we have figured out what the bond is between Haslett and Brooks .

Not sure if he would not be thinking quarterback controversy and avoid the locker room all together .

How about if we slip Haslett a chart that shows drafting Eli would increase his winning percentages , kind of like that 2 point conversion chart he could not get away from a couple of seasons ago ......

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I think we are all in agreement that if the Saints don\'t make the playoffs this year then Haslett is out. The simple truth is that this team will not make the playoffs with a first year QB, even Eli. Haslett will not draft a prospect that will take 2 or 3 years to maybe pan out; he must win this year and his answer to that in the draft will be defense.

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Vult, please don\'t feel belittled or attacked, I respect your right to express this belief, but I disagree with it, courteously.

Please permit me to offer my reasoning:
1. I really don\'t see this as a \"playoffs or else\" kind of year. I think Anything between 6-10 and 9-7 (missing the playoffs) keeps Haslett in New Orleans. After the last interview in the TP, I think Haslett is Benson\'s Bill Cowher. I also kind of think that Benson is OK with leaving Haslett in place until the granddaughter gets a chance to take over the franchise.

2. Even if this were a hot seat sort of year for Haslett, picking up Eli immediately gives you a new lease on life. Drafting Eli would generate a high level of excitement and allow Haz to really stink it up if he wanted to and blame it on the rookie.

3. It appears that we will have to be drafting guys to be starters next month. This makes me nervous, but rookies on the defense give Haslett the same excuse that having Eli does, \"It\'s the rookies, they need some time to learn the pro game.\"

4. The lack of pressure on the front office just screams to me that these guys aren\'t worried about looking for a new job.

But that\'s just by .02, welcome to the board.

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Well, said BMG.

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BMG, it\'s just so frustrating because your pipe dream DOES NOT MAKE SENSE.

If Brooks is so terrible, how are we going to get a top 2 draft pick with him?

We\'d have to deal away other draft picks!
And sending away these draft pick DOWNGRADES the QB position for the next 3 seasons, with no guarentee that Eli will ever be a better player than Brooks.

And if we have to deal away our top draft picks this year, what would you rather us do? Maybe address CB and LB in next years draft?

Like I understand you\'re been daydreaming about Eli winning us a Superbowl, and that\'s fine, it\'s no more farfetched than the daydreams I\'ve been having about Alicia Keys.... But I don\'t feel inclined to post information about my daydreams every day!

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I sure hope you\'re not right BMG. If we don\'t make the playoffs this year we need to make a coaching change. This is the make or break year.

Take the Cap Hit Now
 

It\'s really pretty reasonable. Brooks is a sandlot player. I don\'t think Brooks is horrible--or he\'d never manage to post 3500 yards. I do think that Brooks has basically topped out, this is as good as he\'s ever going to be. If we are content to stay at 8-8, then by all means lets keep him. He is, after all, the devil we know. I was under the impression tht we wanted to seriously try to make a move in the playoffs.

However, when you compare him to the Chargers QB\'s in Flutie and Brees, it doesn\'t matter whether Brooks is terrible, it\'s about whether he would be terrible to THEM. I think we could all agree that Brooks would upgrade the QB situation in San Diego. As I have said before, I bet that the Chargers would LOVE to be 8-8 next season.

Actually, I would offer Pathon and Brooks. They need both positions. If they really wanted to play hardball, I\'d think about offering Brooks and Horn, but then I\'d want their first 2 picks and maybe one next year. But yes, we\'d probably have to offer up a pick, but I\'m not sure we\'d have to offer up #18.

I\'m not sure that Eli downgrades the position. But you are right, he is unproven as an NFL player, it is a risk. He could be a bust. I don\'t think anyone on the board really believes that. I think more folks believe he will take more time to develop than Peyton but will end up being a good to great NFL QB. But it is a risk. We could stay right where we are with a player that is good for 8-8 and take no risk. But we also take no risk of going deep into the playoffs either. He\'s a known commodity and what we know is that Brooks can\'t get it done.

I\'m proposing that we deal Brooks while people still believe that he is an up and coming QB with potential. In another year his salary doubles and he becomes more difficult to deal. We have the cap space now, let\'s absorb the hit now since we aren\'t going to use the money anyway. So we deal Brooks take the hit this year and have that cap room available next year. We aren\'t using it anyway, we will have 6-8 million in cap room all season long, so let\'s just deal Brooks.

In all the time Haslett has been here, there has been no meaningful move to address either of these positions. I\'m not convinced that he\'ll do it this year either. So even if we take no risks and settle for the same thing as we\'ve always had, he still might end up taking a WR and a DT and a OT with our first 3 picks. So we\'d still be having the CB, LB discussion next year anyway.

But just for fun, let\'s suppose that we could get the #1 pick and keep #18. Maybe we could get by with just giving up a 2nd rounder and a 3rd rounder this year? Could we not address the CB or LB position? Or even draft a WR or DT? I\'m not suggesting that we trade our entire draft to get a real franchise QB, I\'m suggesting that we deal a couple of players that will have no more value than they have right now to get the #1 pick and then address other need areas.

I hope I\'m not right too. Let\'s say that we draft some combination of LB and CB with our first 3 picks as it stands right now. It seems kind of reasonable that we might have to start a rookie at either position. Haslett\'s excuses will be the same either way if we go 8-8 and miss the playoffs, \"We have rookies at CB and LB, what do you expect?\" Thus giving him a new lease on life. If he\'s going to use the excuse anyway, why not have Eli?

Take the Cap Hit Now
 

A little therapy for yourself - REPEAT AFTER ME!!!!!


WE ARE NOT GOING TO DRAFT ELI MANNING!!!!!!!WE ARE NOT GOING TO DRAFT ELI MANNING!!!!!!!WE ARE NOT GOING TO DRAFT ELI MANNING!!!!!!!WE ARE NOT GOING TWE ARE NOT GOING TO DRAFT ELI MANNING!!!!!!!O DRAFT ELI MANNING!!!!!!!WE ARE NOT GOING TO DRAFT ELI MANNING!!!!!!!WE ARE NOT GOING TO DRAFT ELI MANNING!!!!!!!WE ARE NOT GOING TO DRAFT ELI MANNING!!!!!!!WE ARE NOT GOING TO DRAFT ELI MANNING!!!!!!!WE ARE NOT GOING TO DRAFT ELI MANNING!!!!!!!
WE ARE NOT GOING TO DRAFT ELI MANNING!!!!!!!WE ARE NOT GOING TO DRAFT ELI MANNING!!!!!!!WE ARE NOT GOING TO DRAFT ELI MANNING!!!!!!!


GET OVER THE IDEA!!!!!! :casstet: :casstet: :casstet: :casstet:

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A little therapy for yourself - REPEAT AFTER ME!!!!!

Freedom of speech is a constitutionally protected right .

Maybe this will help you understand , this soldier died protecting the right . He might have been a Saints fan .

Pfc. Wilfred D. Bellard 20 41st Field Artillery Regiment, 3rd Infantry Division Lake Charles, Louisiana Killed when his vehicle fell into a ravine in Iraq on April 4, 2003

Take the Cap Hit Now
 

No one is trying to stop anyone\'s right to free speech. However, people need to get the idea that AB may/will/should be traded because it is not going to happen. If they don\'t pull him out when he is hurt, they certainly aren\'t going to get rid of him after his best statistical season. I find more fault in the staff\'s handling of him than I do his play. Just look at the games which our offense looked the best (granted, against BAD defenses) - we were airing it out, therefore the underneath routs opened up and Deuce had some very nice running lanes. If we could find the same creativity in our play-calling game-to-game, our team would be much more successful. Look at the progression he has made as a quarterback. To throw only 8 interceptions in 515 attempts in the NFL is pretty darn good. You see him not forcing the ball - instead he is throwing the ball away. Sure, I wish he would hold onto the ball more often, however our beloved Jake had more fumbles, only HIS team recovered a majority. There were MANY more QB\'s in the league with more turnovers but they had a strong-enough defense to atone for the mistakes. Sorry I was so long-winded, I just had to get that off my chest!

In this forum , you will respect it . You may or may not agree with someones thoughts but you will respect their right to post them in this forum .

[Edited on 25/3/2004 by saintz08]

Take the Cap Hit Now
 

Brooks is more than good enough to make a move in the playoffs. In fact Brooks is the only Saints QB who has EVER made a move in the playoffs. (And yeah, that includes Archie Manning.)

To win the Superbowl nowadays, you need a lot of depth, a good overall team, and a lot of luck. You DO NOT need a superstar QB. The past five Superbowl winners are all proof of that..
Tom Brady was a sixth round round pick, he\'s won it twice.
Brad Johnson was a NINTH round pick.
Kurt Warner wasn\'t even drafted.
The only first round draft pick of the bunch??
Trent Dilfer, and I\'d hardly call him instrumental to the Ravens success.

Individually, Pathon is maybe worth about a 5th round pick and Brooks could get us a high second. Thats not even gonna be close to get us the number one pick.

Not only would they be crazy to accept this trade, but the Chargers would not be able to pick up both players salaries.

Exactly.


We already have a good NFL QB. Why take the risk and lose players or picks in the process?

You\'re logic is terribly flawed here. Brooks has not yet went far into the playoffs (although he went farther than any other Saints QB). Just because he hasn\'t does not mean he won\'t. According to your logic, last year Peyton Manning would not go far into the playoffs, because he hadn\'t \"got it done\" yet. If Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson can go the whole way, with the right team AB could easily go the whole way too. He is more talented than both those players.

Ambrose, Carter, Rodgers.... Just because these players haven\'t worked out as well as expected does not mean that the FO has neglected to address the positions. That said, I can\'t defend why Haz didn\'t make a move for Plummer or Bryant, as I thought both these players would of helped our D at a fair price. Why Haz ddin\'t make a move on a CB this offseason though, is a whole different topic.

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Yes, it is, but you can\'t yell bomb on an airplane cause it pizzez people off. Just because a person has the constitutional right to speak silly things doesn\'t mean they really should. ;)

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And I hate to get political, but the war in Iraq has nothing to do with freedom of speech.

Take the Cap Hit Now
 

Actually, Brooks can\'t win more than 9 games a season. The only playoff appearance Brooks made in the playoffs might have something to do with the 7 games won by Jeff Blake. The playoff win is courtesy of Az-Hakim and Brian Milne. And while everyone loves to talk about how Brooks beat St. Louis, nobody remembers the 2 int\'s he threw against a suspect Vikings secondary, which later went on to be obliterated in the championship game.

My point is maybe the Chargers will want a pick, maybe they won\'t. I don\'t think it\'s such a stretch to suggest that we could keep pick #18.

I think the Chargers would love to be 8-8 and kill to get Brooks and Pathon or Brooks and Horn. At 8.2 million under the cap, and not needing to sign a #1 draft pick, they have the room.

You make it sound like there are no big-ticket players on a superbowl winning team. Warren Sapp was a big ticket guy, as was Derrick Brooks, as was Marshall Faulk as was Ty Law. Every superbowl winner has superstar players, it\'s just about where you put them. Nothing says that a superstar QB can\'t win the big game. Since we have already invested most of our talent and money on the offense, why not get a franchise QB to complete the package?

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I get it now - BrooksMustGo would rather ANYBODY in the world (himself included) QB the Saints. I firmly believe he thinks Aaron Brooks is THE WORST quarterback in NFL history (Dave Wilson included). I\'m sorry, I take that back. BrooksMustGo believes Aaron Brooks is the worst quarterback to EVER play football at any level.

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Funny thing, I don\'t remember Milne or Hakim being involved at all in blasting off to a 27 point lead over the alleged best team on the planet.

You may as well credit the punter for putting it high enough for Milne to get under it, Or credit the long snapper for not sailing it over Barkers head.

Yea, thats it, our one playoff win, courtesy of Barker and Houser. :casstet:

Take the Cap Hit Now
 

Unfortunately he\'s not the only one. Further he and the rest of \'em think Brooks is the guy costing the Saints one playoff appearance after another. ...hard to figure...which is why I think most of the Brooks bashing is done with tounge planted firmly in cheek...I hope and pray Brooks has another good season...then we can replace the tounge with foot and the cheek with...well, you get the idea. :P

Take the Cap Hit Now
 

You are a strange misanthropic little man. If what I think gives you so much heartburn switch to decaff--or better yet, stop reading it.

I never said Brooks is the worst to ever play for the Saints. Not that I owe you jack for an explanation, but I think that honor is reserved for Heath Shuler.

What I do think about Brooks is this:
1. He\'s not real smart.
2. He\'s not a leader.
3. He makes dumb decisions at critical times.
4. He\'s a me-first type guy.
5. He doesn\'t care if he wins or loses as long as he gets paid.
6. He can\'t read defenses.
7. He can\'t throw a touch pass.
8. He is a sandlot ballplayer ill-suited to run the west coast offense.
9. He won\'t step up in the pocket and deliver the friggin football.
10. He won\'t take responsibility for any of his mistakes.
11. He is just like Jeff George.
12. He can throw for 3500 yards a year
13. He can win around 8 games a year.
14. He can\'t hold to the football.
15. He should be in a system that lets him freelance and play sandlot ball.
16. His cap number is about to get too high for 8-8.
17. His best trade value is now.

Now, do I think he\'s going to be traded?

NOPE. Haslett loves him and will kill his career supporting Brooks, so we are stuck with him.

Do I think we\'ll trade for Eli?

NOPE. But I think it is possible and not so outrageous as might be believed and would be a good move for the franchise.

Now, if you wish to post you love and admiration of Aaron Brooks to your shrill little heart\'s content. Feel free. I could care less if you went on at length about your fascination with the guy.

I have never attacked your position on Brooks or you personally and would like the same courtesy. I feel like I actually get along pretty well with people who think I\'m out to lunch on the whole trade thing like Saintfan or Danno or Billy.

If you are such a cretin that this escapes your comprehension, please avoid reading my posts. Switch to decaff, get a dog, or a girlfriend, but get off my butt about my opinion. It is mine after all and I\'d rather not have to see your goofy personal attacks just because it happens to differ from yours. I am encouraged however that I do think differently from such a doltish lout.

Take the Cap Hit Now
 

Well BMG...I respect your opinion as long as we\'re straight on the \"opinion\" part, cause each of those is up for debate. I do get the feeling you\'re at least being honest about it tho, which is all anyone could ever ask. I\'m a Brooks fan as you know...but no hard feelings. :P

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Saintfan just got....

http://banerunner.freeservers.com/images/bear.jpg

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I am sorry. What in the world gives everyone the idea that Eli Manning is the franchise qb that everyone is looking for? What makes him so great? It must be that he is a Manning. If he is so great, how come he never took Ole Miss to the SEC Championship game? I think a franchise qb can do that. How many individual awards did he earn at the college level? team MVP? Eli was basically in the same boat as Brooks is with the Saints. If you don\'t play DEFENSE, you won\'t win!!!!!!! I sure hope if we give up the farm that we can put up numbers like the Rams a few years ago. Kinda hard with Stallworth and Pathon as our starting recievers.

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...are you freakin kidding me??? He brought that Ole Miss team from falling completely off the planet and got them national attention and ranked.

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WOW, I never realized that. That is a wonderful accomplishment. Thanks for showing me the light. You cracked the top 25 a few times. Good for you. Now you are on your way to leading the Saints to the Superbowl. I can\'t wait.

Take the Cap Hit Now
 

BMG, let me just say that I for one love your fanatical ravings, and I will defend your right to type out your Manningsirian desires to your heart\'s content on this board.

I will admit, though, that I gained quite a bit of respect for Brooks at the end of last season. Did you see that block in during the \'River City Miracle\'?

All that being said, guess who is on the cover of EA Sports NCAA Football 2005? Yep. I bet you already have an advance poster.

Keep preachin\', brother!

Take the Cap Hit Now
 

Think we will get lucky enough for Brooks to make the cover of Madden 2005 ???

Take the Cap Hit Now
 

whoopty do, Danny Wuerful was on the cover of NCAA Football also. your point?

Take the Cap Hit Now
 

I\'m jus\' tryin\' to help a brother out wit\' some man love, dang....

Why ya\'ll so sensitive?

Brooks will be the qb next year. Why can\'t ya\'ll \'low BMG a couple o\' months of happiness?

Take the Cap Hit Now
 

There you go again with the flawed logic. Just because we haven\'t won more than 9 games with Brooks at QB does not mean we can\'t! We haven\'t yet.

Yes BMG. You\'re right. It was Brian Milne who threw 4 TDs that game.

He forced a couple throws in the last half when the Saints were desperately trying to get back into the game. It happens. In fact, the last time I saw a Manning play, he was walking off the field dejected after a 4 INT game.

Duece, Horn... We have superstars, on one side of the ball anyways.

Eli isn\'t gonna complete the package. A couple more solid defenders might.

Take the Cap Hit Now
 

Thought I was ..... ;)

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Eli would potentially open up the offensive package . Brooks does limit the passing game in the Power West Coast offense . Brooks could not hit an L-11 route with a 100 balls .

Take the Cap Hit Now
 

And here I was just thinking how we seemed to be low on the ***hole factor around here- thanks for playing.



[Edited on 25/3/2004 by BlackandBlue]

Take the Cap Hit Now
 

You are a strange misanthropic little man.

If you are such a cretin that this escapes your comprehension, please avoid reading my posts. Switch to decaff, get a dog, or a girlfriend, but get off my butt about my opinion. It is mine after all and I\'d rather not have to see your goofy personal attacks just because it happens to differ from yours. I am encouraged however that I do think differently from such a doltish lout.

I have never attacked your position on Brooks or you personally and would like the same courtesy.
[/quote:5d8901f583]


No personal attacks!!??

Got your point Steub 12 , forum posting is like Nascar racing at times , a little rubbing every now and then is righteous . An entire post to a thread like the therapy one is overkill .
Example : Saintsfan is a closet 49ers fan , who likes to dance the dance of the sugar plums . Not acceptable ... Saintsfan , didn\'t I see you on T.V. at a 49ers game ?? Rubbed and point made .... ;)



[Edited on 25/3/2004 by saintz08]

Take the Cap Hit Now
 

saintz08 - Believe me, I know! I love it, that\'s why I keep posting - it\'s all in good fun!

:cool: