Shaun Rogers ranked 7th

Danno · 02-26-2012, 03:29 PM

Franklin played well
Rogers played OK

I'd resign Franklin and let Rogers walk.

FinSaint · 02-26-2012, 05:14 PM

Originally Posted by halloween 65

I would let a 3/4 defense have him since we are a 4/3, he did not do well in our 4/3 and someone who could excel could earn that spot for that money. I had high hopes for the both of them, well that was all it amounted to was hope, not production.

But that is the perception I was trying to disprove...

Franklin produced at the level at which all the indicators - before the Saints signed him - showed he should, so I can't accept a statement like "he under performed" purely because of that fact.

Franklin has never been a pass rushing DL - he has always been a run stopping DL - so if the Saints signed him to be a pass rusher, it is not Franklin's fault he didn't live up to that role.

Rogers was supposed to be the one to create the interior push and pass rush out of the two FA DT signings, and that is why I would not want them to re-sign him.

No matter how much we all would like to see an improvement in the interior pass rush next season, the Saints still need guys that are strong against the run, so that the opposition is forced to throw the ball. That is why I like D-linemen like Franklin and Jordan, who are very good at defending the run.

It seems to me that many fans have had misguided beliefs about what type of players both Franklin and Jordan were/are, which has led to many expressing their disappointment at their performances when I personally think that both of them did a fine job in their respective roles.

halloween 65 · 02-26-2012, 06:32 PM

Originally Posted by FinSaint

But that is the perception I was trying to disprove...

Franklin produced at the level at which all the indicators - before the Saints signed him - showed he should, so I can't accept a statement like "he under performed" purely because of that fact.

Franklin has never been a pass rushing DL - he has always been a run stopping DL - so if the Saints signed him to be a pass rusher, it is not Franklin's fault he didn't live up to that role.

Rogers was supposed to be the one to create the interior push and pass rush out of the two FA DT signings, and that is why I would not want them to re-sign him.

No matter how much we all would like to see an improvement in the interior pass rush next season, the Saints still need guys that are strong against the run, so that the opposition is forced to throw the ball. That is why I like D-linemen like Franklin and Jordan, who are very good at defending the run.

It seems to me that many fans have had misguided beliefs about what type of players both Franklin and Jordan were/are, which has led to many expressing their disappointment at their performances when I personally think that both of them did a fine job in their respective roles.

If all you want is someone to stand the line up and get no penitration well I guess he's your man. But for me I want someboby that can penitrait and defend the run, a disruptive force so to speak, rather than settling for a one dimentional run stuffer and as I looked at the 10 he was well #10. Me I would take my chances with someone else, especially if they keep Ellis.

blackangold · 02-26-2012, 07:15 PM

Originally Posted by FinSaint

But that is the perception I was trying to disprove...

Franklin produced at the level at which all the indicators - before the Saints signed him - showed he should, so I can't accept a statement like "he under performed" purely because of that fact.

Franklin has never been a pass rushing DL - he has always been a run stopping DL - so if the Saints signed him to be a pass rusher, it is not Franklin's fault he didn't live up to that role.

Rogers was supposed to be the one to create the interior push and pass rush out of the two FA DT signings, and that is why I would not want them to re-sign him.

No matter how much we all would like to see an improvement in the interior pass rush next season, the Saints still need guys that are strong against the run, so that the opposition is forced to throw the ball. That is why I like D-linemen like Franklin and Jordan, who are very good at defending the run.

It seems to me that many fans have had misguided beliefs about what type of players both Franklin and Jordan were/are, which has led to many expressing their disappointment at their performances when I personally think that both of them did a fine job in their respective roles.

I understand that Jordan was never considered a pass rushing DE during his collegiate career however given the amount of sacks he got (1) for the season considering the playing time he got does not make me happy about the decision to draft him. Consider this, the sack he managed to get was against Cam Newton who was running out of the pocket, not to mention when Jordan made the tackle it was a personal foul (horse collar). Also, Jordan played in every game but but had 2 less sacks then McBride who only played in 3 games. I hope Jordan finds the ability to get to the QB or gets moved to DT.

Fantasy world:
We draft Ingram with the Jordan pick and retain our pick for the upcoming draft, look what LB is there at that position .... Hightower...

I really do hope Jordan pans out because Hightower looks to be a stud LB

FinSaint · 02-26-2012, 09:11 PM

Originally Posted by halloween 65

If all you want is someone to stand the line up and get no penitration well I guess he's your man. But for me I want someboby that can penitrait and defend the run, a disruptive force so to speak, rather than settling for a one dimentional run stuffer and as I looked at the 10 he was well #10. Me I would take my chances with someone else, especially if they keep Ellis.

Yes, I do see your point, and naturally I would like for the Saints to have a DT who could stop the run, create interior pass rush with sacks, pat passes down, and catch those passes for pick 6s.

But, I simply can't believe that the Saints' FO didn't know what type of a DT Franklin was when they decided to make him an offer. Therefore, it is only logical to conclude that they wanted a run stuffing DT like Franklin and didn't much care if whether or not he could create interior pass rush. So, it is not about what I want, but what it seems like the Saints' FO wanted in signing a player like Franklin.

Going into the season, I remember statements like this being thrown around: "Rogers and Franklin are going to attract so many double teams that Ellis will have a career year rushing the passer," but he didn't while the afore mentioned did attract their share of double teams. So, I would think that maybe the coaches were expecting the pass rush to come primarily from other players than these two big guys... maybe I'm wrong? ...or maybe it was just GW imagining Harper having 24 sacks in the season?

I wouldn't mind a more 1-dimensional DT with an emphasis on anchoring the point of defense, but he would have to be partnered with either another DT who was a good pass rusher or with DEs that were able to close up the pocket from the edges.

Originally Posted by blackangold

I understand that Jordan was never considered a pass rushing DE during his collegiate career however given the amount of sacks he got (1) for the season considering the playing time he got does not make me happy about the decision to draft him. Consider this, the sack he managed to get was against Cam Newton who was running out of the pocket, not to mention when Jordan made the tackle it was a personal foul (horse collar).

That wasn't his sack... a sack isn't given if a defensive penalty occurs during the said play. He got his sack a while after that particular play.

hagan714 · 02-26-2012, 09:20 PM

both FA DT were disappointing to say the least

CharityMike · 02-26-2012, 10:29 PM

Originally Posted by hagan714

both FA DT were disappointing to say the least

^^THIS^^

And the lengths some are going, to try and make me think they were even decent, is funny.

FinSaint · 02-26-2012, 10:59 PM

Originally Posted by CharityMike

^^THIS^^

And the lengths some are going, to try and make me think they were even decent, is funny.

Danno · 02-27-2012, 09:02 AM

Originally Posted by FinSaint

It seems to me that many fans have had misguided beliefs about what type of players both Franklin and Jordan were/are, which has led to many expressing their disappointment at their performances when I personally think that both of them did a fine job in their respective roles.

Nailed it.

Franklin did exactly what I thought he'd do, and probably did what the coaches expected as well. Stop the run in order for our 3-tech DT's to penetrate. Franklin held up his end of the deal. Our 3-techs... not so much.

Rogers didn't play as well as I'd hoped, but he wasn't terrible either. I expected much more out of him since he was in a rotation that should have kept him fresh, but he often looked fatigued.

ScottF · 02-27-2012, 11:06 AM

what am missing here with Rogers? including post season, he had 23 tackles and zero sacks
he is way past guaranteed money just for potential

02-26-2012, 03:29 PM	#11
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,718	Franklin played well Rogers played OK I'd resign Franklin and let Rogers walk. Turbo Saint and FinSaint like this.

02-26-2012, 05:14 PM	#12
FinSaint Site Donor 2015 Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Finland... formerly Southern Virginia Posts: 4,961	Originally Posted by halloween 65 I would let a 3/4 defense have him since we are a 4/3, he did not do well in our 4/3 and someone who could excel could earn that spot for that money. I had high hopes for the both of them, well that was all it amounted to was hope, not production. But that is the perception I was trying to disprove... Franklin produced at the level at which all the indicators - before the Saints signed him - showed he should, so I can't accept a statement like "he under performed" purely because of that fact. Franklin has never been a pass rushing DL - he has always been a run stopping DL - so if the Saints signed him to be a pass rusher, it is not Franklin's fault he didn't live up to that role. Rogers was supposed to be the one to create the interior push and pass rush out of the two FA DT signings, and that is why I would not want them to re-sign him. No matter how much we all would like to see an improvement in the interior pass rush next season, the Saints still need guys that are strong against the run, so that the opposition is forced to throw the ball. That is why I like D-linemen like Franklin and Jordan, who are very good at defending the run. It seems to me that many fans have had misguided beliefs about what type of players both Franklin and Jordan were/are, which has led to many expressing their disappointment at their performances when I personally think that both of them did a fine job in their respective roles.
	"I'm not bashing people, I'm bashing their opinions because in my opinion their opinion is wrong" - Danno

02-26-2012, 06:32 PM	#13
halloween 65 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Grand Haven, Michigan by way of a little Mississippi River town in Louisiana Posts: 5,893	Originally Posted by FinSaint But that is the perception I was trying to disprove... Franklin produced at the level at which all the indicators - before the Saints signed him - showed he should, so I can't accept a statement like "he under performed" purely because of that fact. Franklin has never been a pass rushing DL - he has always been a run stopping DL - so if the Saints signed him to be a pass rusher, it is not Franklin's fault he didn't live up to that role. Rogers was supposed to be the one to create the interior push and pass rush out of the two FA DT signings, and that is why I would not want them to re-sign him. No matter how much we all would like to see an improvement in the interior pass rush next season, the Saints still need guys that are strong against the run, so that the opposition is forced to throw the ball. That is why I like D-linemen like Franklin and Jordan, who are very good at defending the run. It seems to me that many fans have had misguided beliefs about what type of players both Franklin and Jordan were/are, which has led to many expressing their disappointment at their performances when I personally think that both of them did a fine job in their respective roles. If all you want is someone to stand the line up and get no penitration well I guess he's your man. But for me I want someboby that can penitrait and defend the run, a disruptive force so to speak, rather than settling for a one dimentional run stuffer and as I looked at the 10 he was well #10. Me I would take my chances with someone else, especially if they keep Ellis.

02-26-2012, 07:15 PM	#14
blackangold 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 3,422	Originally Posted by FinSaint But that is the perception I was trying to disprove... Franklin produced at the level at which all the indicators - before the Saints signed him - showed he should, so I can't accept a statement like "he under performed" purely because of that fact. Franklin has never been a pass rushing DL - he has always been a run stopping DL - so if the Saints signed him to be a pass rusher, it is not Franklin's fault he didn't live up to that role. Rogers was supposed to be the one to create the interior push and pass rush out of the two FA DT signings, and that is why I would not want them to re-sign him. No matter how much we all would like to see an improvement in the interior pass rush next season, the Saints still need guys that are strong against the run, so that the opposition is forced to throw the ball. That is why I like D-linemen like Franklin and Jordan, who are very good at defending the run. It seems to me that many fans have had misguided beliefs about what type of players both Franklin and Jordan were/are, which has led to many expressing their disappointment at their performances when I personally think that both of them did a fine job in their respective roles. I understand that Jordan was never considered a pass rushing DE during his collegiate career however given the amount of sacks he got (1) for the season considering the playing time he got does not make me happy about the decision to draft him. Consider this, the sack he managed to get was against Cam Newton who was running out of the pocket, not to mention when Jordan made the tackle it was a personal foul (horse collar). Also, Jordan played in every game but but had 2 less sacks then McBride who only played in 3 games. I hope Jordan finds the ability to get to the QB or gets moved to DT. Fantasy world: We draft Ingram with the Jordan pick and retain our pick for the upcoming draft, look what LB is there at that position .... Hightower... I really do hope Jordan pans out because Hightower looks to be a stud LB

02-26-2012, 09:11 PM	#15
FinSaint Site Donor 2015 Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Finland... formerly Southern Virginia Posts: 4,961	Originally Posted by halloween 65 If all you want is someone to stand the line up and get no penitration well I guess he's your man. But for me I want someboby that can penitrait and defend the run, a disruptive force so to speak, rather than settling for a one dimentional run stuffer and as I looked at the 10 he was well #10. Me I would take my chances with someone else, especially if they keep Ellis. Yes, I do see your point, and naturally I would like for the Saints to have a DT who could stop the run, create interior pass rush with sacks, pat passes down, and catch those passes for pick 6s. But, I simply can't believe that the Saints' FO didn't know what type of a DT Franklin was when they decided to make him an offer. Therefore, it is only logical to conclude that they wanted a run stuffing DT like Franklin and didn't much care if whether or not he could create interior pass rush. So, it is not about what I want, but what it seems like the Saints' FO wanted in signing a player like Franklin. Going into the season, I remember statements like this being thrown around: "Rogers and Franklin are going to attract so many double teams that Ellis will have a career year rushing the passer," but he didn't while the afore mentioned did attract their share of double teams. So, I would think that maybe the coaches were expecting the pass rush to come primarily from other players than these two big guys... maybe I'm wrong? ...or maybe it was just GW imagining Harper having 24 sacks in the season? I wouldn't mind a more 1-dimensional DT with an emphasis on anchoring the point of defense, but he would have to be partnered with either another DT who was a good pass rusher or with DEs that were able to close up the pocket from the edges. Originally Posted by blackangold I understand that Jordan was never considered a pass rushing DE during his collegiate career however given the amount of sacks he got (1) for the season considering the playing time he got does not make me happy about the decision to draft him. Consider this, the sack he managed to get was against Cam Newton who was running out of the pocket, not to mention when Jordan made the tackle it was a personal foul (horse collar). That wasn't his sack... a sack isn't given if a defensive penalty occurs during the said play. He got his sack a while after that particular play.
	"I'm not bashing people, I'm bashing their opinions because in my opinion their opinion is wrong" - Danno

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02-26-2012, 09:20 PM	#16
hagan714 LB Mentallity Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 15,870 Blog Entries: 68	both FA DT were disappointing to say the least

02-26-2012, 10:29 PM	#17
CharityMike Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Mid City, New Orleans Posts: 3,556	Originally Posted by hagan714 both FA DT were disappointing to say the least ^^THIS^^ And the lengths some are going, to try and make me think they were even decent, is funny.

02-26-2012, 10:59 PM	#18
FinSaint Site Donor 2015 Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Finland... formerly Southern Virginia Posts: 4,961	Originally Posted by CharityMike ^^THIS^^ And the lengths some are going, to try and make me think they were even decent, is funny. CharityMike likes this.

02-27-2012, 09:02 AM	#19
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,718	Originally Posted by FinSaint It seems to me that many fans have had misguided beliefs about what type of players both Franklin and Jordan were/are, which has led to many expressing their disappointment at their performances when I personally think that both of them did a fine job in their respective roles. Nailed it. Franklin did exactly what I thought he'd do, and probably did what the coaches expected as well. Stop the run in order for our 3-tech DT's to penetrate. Franklin held up his end of the deal. Our 3-techs... not so much. Rogers didn't play as well as I'd hoped, but he wasn't terrible either. I expected much more out of him since he was in a rotation that should have kept him fresh, but he often looked fatigued.

02-27-2012, 11:06 AM	#20
ScottF 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Atlanta Posts: 6,324	what am missing here with Rogers? including post season, he had 23 tackles and zero sacks he is way past guaranteed money just for potential

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