Timeline for Saints punishment

FinSaint · 03-04-2012, 08:30 AM

With so much emphasis given to the single fact that delivering a hit which resulted in an opposing player being injured was rewarded - I wonder how many different "performances" were on that ticket?

What were the rewards for all of the on-field performances and if they were ranked what was the order they were listed in?

For all we know, maybe the highest reward was payed for a pick 6 and the "stretcher hit" was just an afterthought - until of course Vilma's personal bounty declaration in the Conference Finals, if that is true.

In my opinion, this case should be more about the reward system itself and how it violates the salary rules - not about what individual performances were included in those that would be rewarded.

Danno · 03-04-2012, 09:42 AM

Hopefully they dock our 2012 1st round pick, and it screws the Pats.

FinSaint · 03-04-2012, 09:52 AM

Originally Posted by Danno

Hopefully the dock our 2012 1st round pick, and it screws the Pats.

Wouldn't that be funny?

onebyone · 03-04-2012, 10:29 AM

I really, really, really wish everything would've come out all at once. This waiting and wondering what they are going to do is going to kill me. I really think Goodell is going to hurt us bad, as this played right into his pet project.

As an aside, I am really ready for someone to leak who the snitch was.

OldMaid · 03-04-2012, 10:43 AM

I agree with one, WhoDate and Marlbaro.
Saints did it. I get that.
The other 32 , however many teams did it also.
Dungy: Gregg Williams

This is just one of the articles telling that this has been going around for years.

I agree other teams have broken a few shredders, burned the motor out since this hit the news. If they put it on paper, they have no papertrail now. There is no proof, BUT, there are a few articles out there we all have read of other teams talking about this. Start the investigation there with these guys who gave interviews about it and then their teams.

Beastmode · 03-04-2012, 11:04 AM

Cheating is far worse than a bounty pool IMO and both the 49ers and Patriots got off lightly. 49ers were docked a 5th and 3rd round pick and were also fined $300,000.

Bill Belichick was fined $500,000 (the max allowed), fined the Patriots $250,000, and docked a 1st round pick.

Whatever happens it better be much less than these two incidents considering the Saints have been one of the least penalized teams on the field for illegal hits. At the end of the day, the Saints were better at documenting their finances for the pool than actually completing the tasks of taking players out of games. What players careers were ruined by the Saints for illegal hits? None. 0. The Warner hit; legal. Favre got back in the game. There is simply not enough production from the bounty to warrant more than monetary fines.

AsylumGuido · 03-04-2012, 11:17 AM

Originally Posted by WhoDat!656

Won't work.

Someone will point out that the Saints should have done their homework better on GW; Payton adding his own money to the offer to sign Williams doesn't help things.

Coupled with the facts that Loomis and SP knew about it for 3 yrs and didn't stop it is more damning AND that Benson told Loomis to stop it immediately back in '09 may seal his fate.

SP may be able to distance himself from it by saying he doesn't have much interaction with the defense.

The Saints paying to injure another player is what makes my guts knot up.

The Saints did no such thing. This bounty systems are funded by the players themselves. The payouts come from a pool that is funded by entry fees, to become eligible to collect, and kangaroo court fines levied for various offenses during the year, such as being late for meetings, buses and such.

It's like a bunch of us going out to the golf course and having side bets on who gets the first birdie, etc.

AsylumGuido · 03-04-2012, 11:22 AM

Originally Posted by FinSaint

With so much emphasis given to the single fact that delivering a hit which resulted in an opposing player being injured was rewarded - I wonder how many different "performances" were on that ticket?

What were the rewards for all of the on-field performances and if they were ranked what was the order they were listed in?

For all we know, maybe the highest reward was payed for a pick 6 and the "stretcher hit" was just an afterthought - until of course Vilma's personal bounty declaration in the Conference Finals, if that is true.

In my opinion, this case should be more about the reward system itself and how it violates the salary rules - not about what individual performances were included in those that would be rewarded.

Once again, it does not affect the salary rules. It is a pool of the player's own money. And it isn't for the money. The money is minimal. It is for the glory. And don't think for a minute that a player doesn't get high fives when a play that lays out an opponent comes up during film study in every film room in the league.

FinSaint · 03-04-2012, 12:04 PM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

Once again, it does not affect the salary rules. It is a pool of the player's own money. And it isn't for the money. The money is minimal. It is for the glory. And don't think for a minute that a player doesn't get high fives when a play that lays out an opponent comes up during film study in every film room in the league.

The fact that f.e. GW himself put money into the pool without having any possibility of collecting anything out of it changes the nature of the system quite a bit. The size of the "rewards" or the "bounties" is beside the point, because it is more about the principle of the activity.

The reason why I said the issue should be more about the existence of the pool violating the salary cap laws is because many of the news articles and even NFL statements have stated that it did so. I didn't come up with this on my own - trust me, I'm not that smart.

I personally don't have any disillusions regarding this matter, myself being involved in something similar in my hockey playing days - big hits are something that warrant respect from other guys on the team and are also a source of pride to one self.

SmashMouth · 03-05-2012, 11:45 AM

It's the year 2012 ... more likely it'll be a form of Supplice as punishment!

03-04-2012, 08:30 AM	#11
FinSaint Site Donor 2015 Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Finland... formerly Southern Virginia Posts: 4,961	With so much emphasis given to the single fact that delivering a hit which resulted in an opposing player being injured was rewarded - I wonder how many different "performances" were on that ticket? What were the rewards for all of the on-field performances and if they were ranked what was the order they were listed in? For all we know, maybe the highest reward was payed for a pick 6 and the "stretcher hit" was just an afterthought - until of course Vilma's personal bounty declaration in the Conference Finals, if that is true. In my opinion, this case should be more about the reward system itself and how it violates the salary rules - not about what individual performances were included in those that would be rewarded.
	"I'm not bashing people, I'm bashing their opinions because in my opinion their opinion is wrong" - Danno

03-04-2012, 09:42 AM	#12
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,723	Hopefully they dock our 2012 1st round pick, and it screws the Pats. FinSaint and jokeray like this.

03-04-2012, 09:52 AM	#13
FinSaint Site Donor 2015 Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Finland... formerly Southern Virginia Posts: 4,961	Originally Posted by Danno Hopefully the dock our 2012 1st round pick, and it screws the Pats. Wouldn't that be funny?

03-04-2012, 10:29 AM	#14
onebyone 100th Post Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 431	I really, really, really wish everything would've come out all at once. This waiting and wondering what they are going to do is going to kill me. I really think Goodell is going to hurt us bad, as this played right into his pet project. As an aside, I am really ready for someone to leak who the snitch was. Rickh and OldMaid like this.
onebyone 100th Post Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 431

03-04-2012, 11:04 AM	#16
Beastmode 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 9,126	Cheating is far worse than a bounty pool IMO and both the 49ers and Patriots got off lightly. 49ers were docked a 5th and 3rd round pick and were also fined $300,000. Bill Belichick was fined $500,000 (the max allowed), fined the Patriots $250,000, and docked a 1st round pick. Whatever happens it better be much less than these two incidents considering the Saints have been one of the least penalized teams on the field for illegal hits. At the end of the day, the Saints were better at documenting their finances for the pool than actually completing the tasks of taking players out of games. What players careers were ruined by the Saints for illegal hits? None. 0. The Warner hit; legal. Favre got back in the game. There is simply not enough production from the bounty to warrant more than monetary fines. jlouhill and frydaddy like this.
Beastmode 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 9,126

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03-04-2012, 10:43 AM	#15
OldMaid Site Donor 2014 Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 2,910 Blog Entries: 3	I agree with one, WhoDate and Marlbaro. Saints did it. I get that. The other 32 , however many teams did it also. Dungy: Gregg Williams This is just one of the articles telling that this has been going around for years. I agree other teams have broken a few shredders, burned the motor out since this hit the news. If they put it on paper, they have no papertrail now. There is no proof, BUT, there are a few articles out there we all have read of other teams talking about this. Start the investigation there with these guys who gave interviews about it and then their teams.

03-04-2012, 11:17 AM	#17
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,274	Originally Posted by WhoDat!656 Won't work. Someone will point out that the Saints should have done their homework better on GW; Payton adding his own money to the offer to sign Williams doesn't help things. Coupled with the facts that Loomis and SP knew about it for 3 yrs and didn't stop it is more damning AND that Benson told Loomis to stop it immediately back in '09 may seal his fate. SP may be able to distance himself from it by saying he doesn't have much interaction with the defense. The Saints paying to injure another player is what makes my guts knot up. The Saints did no such thing. This bounty systems are funded by the players themselves. The payouts come from a pool that is funded by entry fees, to become eligible to collect, and kangaroo court fines levied for various offenses during the year, such as being late for meetings, buses and such. It's like a bunch of us going out to the golf course and having side bets on who gets the first birdie, etc.

03-04-2012, 11:22 AM	#18
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,274	Originally Posted by FinSaint With so much emphasis given to the single fact that delivering a hit which resulted in an opposing player being injured was rewarded - I wonder how many different "performances" were on that ticket? What were the rewards for all of the on-field performances and if they were ranked what was the order they were listed in? For all we know, maybe the highest reward was payed for a pick 6 and the "stretcher hit" was just an afterthought - until of course Vilma's personal bounty declaration in the Conference Finals, if that is true. In my opinion, this case should be more about the reward system itself and how it violates the salary rules - not about what individual performances were included in those that would be rewarded. Once again, it does not affect the salary rules. It is a pool of the player's own money. And it isn't for the money. The money is minimal. It is for the glory. And don't think for a minute that a player doesn't get high fives when a play that lays out an opponent comes up during film study in every film room in the league.

03-04-2012, 12:04 PM	#19
FinSaint Site Donor 2015 Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Finland... formerly Southern Virginia Posts: 4,961	Originally Posted by AsylumGuido Once again, it does not affect the salary rules. It is a pool of the player's own money. And it isn't for the money. The money is minimal. It is for the glory. And don't think for a minute that a player doesn't get high fives when a play that lays out an opponent comes up during film study in every film room in the league. The fact that f.e. GW himself put money into the pool without having any possibility of collecting anything out of it changes the nature of the system quite a bit. The size of the "rewards" or the "bounties" is beside the point, because it is more about the principle of the activity. The reason why I said the issue should be more about the existence of the pool violating the salary cap laws is because many of the news articles and even NFL statements have stated that it did so. I didn't come up with this on my own - trust me, I'm not that smart. I personally don't have any disillusions regarding this matter, myself being involved in something similar in my hockey playing days - big hits are something that warrant respect from other guys on the team and are also a source of pride to one self.
	"I'm not bashing people, I'm bashing their opinions because in my opinion their opinion is wrong" - Danno

03-05-2012, 11:45 AM	#20
SmashMouth I donated, did you? Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Mandeville, LA Posts: 38,200 Blog Entries: 29	It's the year 2012 ... more likely it'll be a form of Supplice as punishment!

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