Breaking the locks of "Bountygate."

BGWhoDat · 03-05-2012, 12:45 PM

What's funny is people in sports groups want to act like the Ravens, Steelers, etc etc are innocent.. When in fact, they're probably guilty too.

SloMotion · 03-05-2012, 08:31 PM

bump.

BGWhoDat · 03-08-2012, 10:28 PM

Ty. Bump.

vpheughan · 03-09-2012, 06:39 PM

The one thing that bothers me the most is how much of a head case players are. They make millions in salary yet get all lathered up over a $1,000 bonus? I have an idea for a new league the IBFL incentive based football league. The base pay is $0 you "earn" you money based on how you play. The statement "It isn't about the money" seems to be true. A million a year to play, well ok. What's that? a bonus of $300.00 for a good hit. YAHOO!!!!! now you're talking money!!!!

BGWhoDat · 03-09-2012, 07:35 PM

Originally Posted by vpheughan

The one thing that bothers me the most is how much of a head case players are. They make millions in salary yet get all lathered up over a $1,000 bonus? I have an idea for a new league the IBFL incentive based football league. The base pay is $0 you "earn" you money based on how you play. The statement "It isn't about the money" seems to be true. A million a year to play, well ok. What's that? a bonus of $300.00 for a good hit. YAHOO!!!!! now you're talking money!!!!

I look to it as a 9-5 job. You get paid hourly, but the extra cash in your pocket for a good sale, being top employee of the week etc is extra motivation. Everyone likes a little extra cash even if you're a millionaire. Or else they'd never want another contract. >_<

SloMotion · 03-10-2012, 05:34 AM

I don't think they get all 'lathered' up about the payments either, it's been pretty well acknowledged that the average defensive player's mindset is to annihilate their opponent wether they're getting a bonus or not.

It's a simple reward/recognition system. In college, it's putting stickers on a helmet for a good play. You make a good play or the big hit, you come up in front of your peers when the team's reviewing film and get recognized. Your teammates applaud, you feel good about yourself, you play harder the following week. We're all attention-whores.

But these guys are 'pros' in a violent sport, so you have to raise it to another level in order to motivate them. You have to offer cash, you have to escalate the rhetoric to include, "knockout", "cart-off".

Doesn't make it right, but it might help explain why it happens.

dsrdsrdsr · 03-10-2012, 07:00 PM

I don't quite understand why the original article spends 4 pages on why there's nothing wrong with the bounty system and it's all in the game, and then on page 5 says

"If you’re told you can get paid $2,000 dollars for an interception, that gives you motivation to go out and get that interception."

Doesn't that shoot his entire argument down? Because if it's true of interceptions, it's also true that if you tell a player he can have $2,000 for a game-ending injury, he's more likely to go out and cause that injury.

BGWhoDat · 03-10-2012, 07:32 PM

Originally Posted by dsrdsrdsr

I don't quite understand why the original article spends 4 pages on why there's nothing wrong with the bounty system and it's all in the game, and then on page 5 says

"If you’re told you can get paid $2,000 dollars for an interception, that gives you motivation to go out and get that interception."

Doesn't that shoot his entire argument down? Because if it's true of interceptions, it's also true that if you tell a player he can have $2,000 for a game-ending injury, he's more likely to go out and cause that injury.

They were paid for interceptions and big hits, no different than college football with helmet stickers. They've admitted that and there's 0 wrong with it.

If you've read it specifically, you'll also note that I said EVERY NFL player hits with the intent to injure and opponent, make him fumble, rattle him, etc. If the hit is within the rules there's 0 wrong with that also.

Paid or not.

If you're paying someone lets say $2,000 for an unsportsmanlike conduct call, when you blasted a QB well past the play with a helmet to helmet shot, then there's something wrong with it. Then again, as I stated, the NFL would likely slap you with a suspension for games and a $20k fine.

There's ways of "injuring an opponent" within the whistles, which I'm okay with. If you know Adrian Peterson has a bummed knee, wouldn't you want to land every hit you could on that knee as a player? You're damn straight you would. Your coaches would even tell you too.

Why else do you think coaches tell you to hit a QB every chance you can?

The NFL has rules for a reason and as long as you follow those rules, whether you have the intent to injure or not, that's not your problem. You played within the whistles and rules of the NFL.

The only thing the Saints have done wrong is getting "paid for performance" which is against the CBA.

Does that clarify it?

Euphoria · 03-10-2012, 08:42 PM

Originally Posted by BGWhoDat

They were paid for interceptions and big hits, no different than college football with helmet stickers. They've admitted that and there's 0 wrong with it.

If you've read it specifically, you'll also note that I said EVERY NFL player hits with the intent to injure and opponent, make him fumble, rattle him, etc. If the hit is within the rules there's 0 wrong with that also.

Paid or not.

If you're paying someone lets say $2,000 for an unsportsmanlike conduct call, when you blasted a QB well past the play with a helmet to helmet shot, then there's something wrong with it. Then again, as I stated, the NFL would likely slap you with a suspension for games and a $20k fine.

There's ways of "injuring an opponent" within the whistles, which I'm okay with. If you know Adrian Peterson has a bummed knee, wouldn't you want to land every hit you could on that knee as a player? You're damn straight you would. Your coaches would even tell you too.

Why else do you think coaches tell you to hit a QB every chance you can?

The NFL has rules for a reason and as long as you follow those rules, whether you have the intent to injure or not, that's not your problem. You played within the whistles and rules of the NFL.

The only thing the Saints have done wrong is getting "paid for performance" which is against the CBA.

Does that clarify it?

Spot on...

I feel like I been banging the drum on this that its not just paid to hurt someone... the rule is that there can't be any paid incentives for performance. You can not have money change hands between players or whoever for INT's, fumbles ANYTHING. Basically NO OFFICE POOLS.

That is what he Saints are guilty of just so happens the words were used to take someone out.

What is funny about this is that EVERY player who has played the game has acknowledge that there was always some sort of incentive for play except
Sharper, Lynch and now Bree's lol.

BGWhoDat · 03-10-2012, 09:22 PM

Originally Posted by Euphoria

Spot on...

I feel like I been banging the drum on this that its not just paid to hurt someone... the rule is that there can't be any paid incentives for performance. You can not have money change hands between players or whoever for INT's, fumbles ANYTHING. Basically NO OFFICE POOLS.

That is what he Saints are guilty of just so happens the words were used to take someone out.

What is funny about this is that EVERY player who has played the game has acknowledge that there was always some sort of incentive for play except
Sharper, Lynch and now Bree's lol.

In a sense, I believe Brees. When I first heard Turley's remarks I was like, well, okay, sure. I get why you want to hear his side but I doubt he knew.

Offensive and defensive meetings are separate from one another and even during practice, as you should know, offense is with their coaches and players, defense is with theirs unless it's a team scrimmage or drill of some sort.

A team meeting or during the team scrimmage would likely be the only time he would have heard about it. A team meeting would be doubtful because that's when they'd review the tape and game plans with one another. Don't see it happening there unless it's the "hit the quarterback every time."

This is clearly a defensive issue because no one on the offense seems to know about it. Furthermore this is likely not even discussed at defensive meetings. Why? Only 22-27 people know about this. If it was discussed then, I'd think that more than 22-27 would be named considering some of them are Dennis Allen, Fujita, Hargrove, etc. Don't you? This is clearly a group of friends, like how lets say Jenkins, Harper, Vilma, and Smith hang out.

Did Williams have a part in bounties? In his statement he mentioned he acknowledged the pay for performance aspect, but not the bounty if I remember correctly. So I'd say no. The only person who they've mentioned specifically as far as a bounty is Vilma and Favre. (As my article states, no flags/fines were handed out for the unsportsmanlike conduct penalties so they were fine there.) If the NFL thought this was an issue before the investigation, they surely would be fined more.

It isn't like the Saints walked around and announced that they were paying players for hurting someone. Don't you think every time a player hits Brees, Rodgers, Brady, they'd love nothing more than to knock the star player out of the game?

I stand by Brees comments saying he knew nothing of the "real existence." -Real- existence? Well, the NFL set out notes to all 32 teams each season about this issue. So to him, he knew of it, but didn't know it exactly existed. I bet that's true. Also, if Brees knew something I'm sure the NFL would LOVE to include his name in their report due to im being a member of the NFLPA committee. I bet his knowledge was one of the first things they looked at.

Sorry for the wall of text.

03-05-2012, 08:31 PM	#2
SloMotion 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 6,776 Blog Entries: 15	bump. BGWhoDat likes this.

03-09-2012, 06:39 PM	#4
vpheughan 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 4,557	The one thing that bothers me the most is how much of a head case players are. They make millions in salary yet get all lathered up over a $1,000 bonus? I have an idea for a new league the IBFL incentive based football league. The base pay is $0 you "earn" you money based on how you play. The statement "It isn't about the money" seems to be true. A million a year to play, well ok. What's that? a bonus of $300.00 for a good hit. YAHOO!!!!! now you're talking money!!!!
vpheughan 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 4,557

03-09-2012, 07:35 PM	#5
BGWhoDat Who Dat Writer Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: New Orleans, LA Posts: 241	Originally Posted by vpheughan The one thing that bothers me the most is how much of a head case players are. They make millions in salary yet get all lathered up over a $1,000 bonus? I have an idea for a new league the IBFL incentive based football league. The base pay is $0 you "earn" you money based on how you play. The statement "It isn't about the money" seems to be true. A million a year to play, well ok. What's that? a bonus of $300.00 for a good hit. YAHOO!!!!! now you're talking money!!!! I look to it as a 9-5 job. You get paid hourly, but the extra cash in your pocket for a good sale, being top employee of the week etc is extra motivation. Everyone likes a little extra cash even if you're a millionaire. Or else they'd never want another contract. >_<

03-10-2012, 05:34 AM	#6
SloMotion 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 6,776 Blog Entries: 15	I don't think they get all 'lathered' up about the payments either, it's been pretty well acknowledged that the average defensive player's mindset is to annihilate their opponent wether they're getting a bonus or not. It's a simple reward/recognition system. In college, it's putting stickers on a helmet for a good play. You make a good play or the big hit, you come up in front of your peers when the team's reviewing film and get recognized. Your teammates applaud, you feel good about yourself, you play harder the following week. We're all attention-whores. But these guys are 'pros' in a violent sport, so you have to raise it to another level in order to motivate them. You have to offer cash, you have to escalate the rhetoric to include, "knockout", "cart-off". Doesn't make it right, but it might help explain why it happens. BGWhoDat likes this.

03-10-2012, 07:00 PM	#7
dsrdsrdsr Registered Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 34	I don't quite understand why the original article spends 4 pages on why there's nothing wrong with the bounty system and it's all in the game, and then on page 5 says "If you’re told you can get paid $2,000 dollars for an interception, that gives you motivation to go out and get that interception." Doesn't that shoot his entire argument down? Because if it's true of interceptions, it's also true that if you tell a player he can have $2,000 for a game-ending injury, he's more likely to go out and cause that injury.
dsrdsrdsr Registered Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 34

03-05-2012, 12:45 PM	#1
BGWhoDat Who Dat Writer Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: New Orleans, LA Posts: 241	What's funny is people in sports groups want to act like the Ravens, Steelers, etc etc are innocent.. When in fact, they're probably guilty too.

03-08-2012, 10:28 PM	#3
BGWhoDat Who Dat Writer Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: New Orleans, LA Posts: 241	Ty. Bump.

03-10-2012, 07:32 PM	#8
BGWhoDat Who Dat Writer Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: New Orleans, LA Posts: 241	Originally Posted by dsrdsrdsr I don't quite understand why the original article spends 4 pages on why there's nothing wrong with the bounty system and it's all in the game, and then on page 5 says "If you’re told you can get paid $2,000 dollars for an interception, that gives you motivation to go out and get that interception." Doesn't that shoot his entire argument down? Because if it's true of interceptions, it's also true that if you tell a player he can have $2,000 for a game-ending injury, he's more likely to go out and cause that injury. They were paid for interceptions and big hits, no different than college football with helmet stickers. They've admitted that and there's 0 wrong with it. If you've read it specifically, you'll also note that I said EVERY NFL player hits with the intent to injure and opponent, make him fumble, rattle him, etc. If the hit is within the rules there's 0 wrong with that also. Paid or not. If you're paying someone lets say $2,000 for an unsportsmanlike conduct call, when you blasted a QB well past the play with a helmet to helmet shot, then there's something wrong with it. Then again, as I stated, the NFL would likely slap you with a suspension for games and a $20k fine. There's ways of "injuring an opponent" within the whistles, which I'm okay with. If you know Adrian Peterson has a bummed knee, wouldn't you want to land every hit you could on that knee as a player? You're damn straight you would. Your coaches would even tell you too. Why else do you think coaches tell you to hit a QB every chance you can? The NFL has rules for a reason and as long as you follow those rules, whether you have the intent to injure or not, that's not your problem. You played within the whistles and rules of the NFL. The only thing the Saints have done wrong is getting "paid for performance" which is against the CBA. Does that clarify it?
	Twitter: @BGWhoDat Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/bgwhodat Website: http://www.rantsports.com

03-10-2012, 08:42 PM	#9
Euphoria 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 7,601 Blog Entries: 5	Originally Posted by BGWhoDat They were paid for interceptions and big hits, no different than college football with helmet stickers. They've admitted that and there's 0 wrong with it. If you've read it specifically, you'll also note that I said EVERY NFL player hits with the intent to injure and opponent, make him fumble, rattle him, etc. If the hit is within the rules there's 0 wrong with that also. Paid or not. If you're paying someone lets say $2,000 for an unsportsmanlike conduct call, when you blasted a QB well past the play with a helmet to helmet shot, then there's something wrong with it. Then again, as I stated, the NFL would likely slap you with a suspension for games and a $20k fine. There's ways of "injuring an opponent" within the whistles, which I'm okay with. If you know Adrian Peterson has a bummed knee, wouldn't you want to land every hit you could on that knee as a player? You're damn straight you would. Your coaches would even tell you too. Why else do you think coaches tell you to hit a QB every chance you can? The NFL has rules for a reason and as long as you follow those rules, whether you have the intent to injure or not, that's not your problem. You played within the whistles and rules of the NFL. The only thing the Saints have done wrong is getting "paid for performance" which is against the CBA. Does that clarify it? Spot on... I feel like I been banging the drum on this that its not just paid to hurt someone... the rule is that there can't be any paid incentives for performance. You can not have money change hands between players or whoever for INT's, fumbles ANYTHING. Basically NO OFFICE POOLS. That is what he Saints are guilty of just so happens the words were used to take someone out. What is funny about this is that EVERY player who has played the game has acknowledge that there was always some sort of incentive for play except Sharper, Lynch and now Bree's lol. BGWhoDat likes this.
	E U P H O R I A

03-10-2012, 09:22 PM	#10
BGWhoDat Who Dat Writer Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: New Orleans, LA Posts: 241	Originally Posted by Euphoria Spot on... I feel like I been banging the drum on this that its not just paid to hurt someone... the rule is that there can't be any paid incentives for performance. You can not have money change hands between players or whoever for INT's, fumbles ANYTHING. Basically NO OFFICE POOLS. That is what he Saints are guilty of just so happens the words were used to take someone out. What is funny about this is that EVERY player who has played the game has acknowledge that there was always some sort of incentive for play except Sharper, Lynch and now Bree's lol. In a sense, I believe Brees. When I first heard Turley's remarks I was like, well, okay, sure. I get why you want to hear his side but I doubt he knew. Offensive and defensive meetings are separate from one another and even during practice, as you should know, offense is with their coaches and players, defense is with theirs unless it's a team scrimmage or drill of some sort. A team meeting or during the team scrimmage would likely be the only time he would have heard about it. A team meeting would be doubtful because that's when they'd review the tape and game plans with one another. Don't see it happening there unless it's the "hit the quarterback every time." This is clearly a defensive issue because no one on the offense seems to know about it. Furthermore this is likely not even discussed at defensive meetings. Why? Only 22-27 people know about this. If it was discussed then, I'd think that more than 22-27 would be named considering some of them are Dennis Allen, Fujita, Hargrove, etc. Don't you? This is clearly a group of friends, like how lets say Jenkins, Harper, Vilma, and Smith hang out. Did Williams have a part in bounties? In his statement he mentioned he acknowledged the pay for performance aspect, but not the bounty if I remember correctly. So I'd say no. The only person who they've mentioned specifically as far as a bounty is Vilma and Favre. (As my article states, no flags/fines were handed out for the unsportsmanlike conduct penalties so they were fine there.) If the NFL thought this was an issue before the investigation, they surely would be fined more. It isn't like the Saints walked around and announced that they were paying players for hurting someone. Don't you think every time a player hits Brees, Rodgers, Brady, they'd love nothing more than to knock the star player out of the game? I stand by Brees comments saying he knew nothing of the "real existence." -Real- existence? Well, the NFL set out notes to all 32 teams each season about this issue. So to him, he knew of it, but didn't know it exactly existed. I bet that's true. Also, if Brees knew something I'm sure the NFL would LOVE to include his name in their report due to im being a member of the NFLPA committee. I bet his knowledge was one of the first things they looked at. Sorry for the wall of text.
	Twitter: @BGWhoDat Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/bgwhodat Website: http://www.rantsports.com

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