Moss to visit Saints(update pg.7)

gandhi1007 · 03-08-2012, 07:18 PM

Originally Posted by Danno

I honestly could not disagree more with this statement.

You and I frequently agree, but we are polar opposites on this one my friend.

I'll make it simple...... neither Devery or Meachem have had a 1,000 yd. receiving season in their entire careers. Neither have had a double digit TD season either. Moss, on the other hand, has averaged over 1,100 yds. a season & nearly 12 TD's a season for the past 13 years. That's also averaging his 2006 & 2010 seasons where he didn't put up any stats.

People can hate the guy all they want, but the fact remains......Randy Moss is one of the most prolific WR's of all time. Take that into account, the fact that he is so hungry for a ring, & the fact that he physically "still has it." You may disagree for personal reasons or whatever, but there is no doubt that Moss is a better player than Meachem or Henderson on any given day.

P.S. - Randy's worst season is on par with either Devery or Meachem's career averages.

FinSaint · 03-08-2012, 09:22 PM

I personally have fondness towards Moss because he was an important part of one of my favorite Vikings' teams ever, and I wouldn't have anything major against him playing for the Saints if the price was right and his production was up to par.

But to make those comparisons to both Henderson and Meachem is not that fair, because they simply haven't played in similar roles during their respective careers.

For example, if we take a look at the more recent level of performances (2009 regular season) head-to-head, we find that there isn't a big difference in Moss', Meachem's and Henderson's relative production levels.

In 2009, Moss had 137 catches for a total of 1,264 yards (9.2 y/catch) with a catch % of 61%, and with 13 TDs and 2 fumbles.

In 2009, Meachem had 64 catches for a total of 722 yards (11.2 y/catch) with a catch % of 70%, and with 9 TDs and 2 fumbles.

In 2009, Henderson had 83 catches for a total of 804 yards (9.6 y/catch) with a catch % of 61%, and with 2 TDs and 0 fumbles.

Looking at those numbers alone, I'd have to say that Meachem had better relative numbers than Moss, and if he had been targeted as much as Moss was, he would've exceeded Moss' numbers quite easily.

If Meachem would've caught 137 catches like Moss did, his total yardage would've been 1,534 yards according to the average yardage per catch ratio he had that season.

Furthermore, since Meachem's catch % was 9% higher than Moss', it is fair to deduce that he wouldn't have needed as many throws to get those 137 catches as Moss did.

So numbers and stats are relative, and we can't just go by them when we are trying to evaluate which receiver would be the best option for the Saints going forward.

Needless to say that since both Henderson and Meachem are already familiar with SP's schemes and they have a chemistry relationship with Brees - they have the upper hand in a head-to-head comparison of potential future value.

gandhi1007 · 03-08-2012, 09:29 PM

Originally Posted by FinSaint

Needless to say that since both Henderson and Meachem are already familiar with SP's schemes and they have a chemistry relationship with Brees - they have the upper hand in a head-to-head comparison of potential future value.

Neither Meachem or Devery are 6'4". Neither Devery or Meachem can still run a sub 4.4 forty. And finally.....neither Devery or Meachem have the hands that Moss does. Bottom line......neither of these guys will make the Hall of Fame. Meanwhile.....Moss is a for sure 1st ballot Hall of Famer. Case closed. Like him or love him......the dude is that good!

Danno · 03-08-2012, 09:32 PM

Originally Posted by gandhi1007

neither Devery or Meachem have the hands that Moss did. Moss is a for sure 1st ballot Hall of Famer. Case closed. Like him or love him......the dude was that good!

Corrected it for you.

Moss isn't a 1st ballot HOF either.

Case wide open.

gandhi1007 · 03-08-2012, 09:50 PM

Originally Posted by Danno

Moss isn't a 1st ballot HOF either.

Are you serious???

Randy Moss made the Pro Bowl 7 times in his 13 years in the league (1998-2000, 2002-03, 2007, 2009), and was named Pro Bowl MVP in 2000.

Moss was also an All-Pro selection five times. (1998, 2000, 2002, 2003, 2007)

•Most touchdown receptions in a season – 23 (2007)
•Most touchdown receptions by a rookie in a season – 17 (1998)
•Most seasons with 17 or more touchdown receptions – 3 (1998, 2003, 2007)
•Most games in a season with at least 2 touchdown receptions – 8 (2007)
•Most yards receiving in a Pro Bowl game – 212 (2000)
•Most 1,200+ yard receiving seasons to start a career – 6 (1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003)
•Fastest player to reach 5,000 career receiving yards – 59 games
•Youngest player in NFL history to record 100 receiving touchdowns – (29 years and 235 days)
•Youngest player in NFL history to record 120 receiving touchdowns – (30 years, 313 days)

#5 All time receiving yards, #2 all time touchdowns scored, #10 all time receptions, single season receiving yardage record, single season receiving TD's record, rookie TD reception record, most games in a season w/ multiple TD receptions in history.

Do you really think Moss is not a 1st ballot Hall of Famer???

alexonfyre · 03-08-2012, 11:23 PM

Originally Posted by gandhi1007

Are you serious???

Randy Moss made the Pro Bowl 7 times in his 13 years in the league (1998-2000, 2002-03, 2007, 2009), and was named Pro Bowl MVP in 2000.

Moss was also an All-Pro selection five times. (1998, 2000, 2002, 2003, 2007)

•Most touchdown receptions in a season – 23 (2007)
•Most touchdown receptions by a rookie in a season – 17 (1998)
•Most seasons with 17 or more touchdown receptions – 3 (1998, 2003, 2007)
•Most games in a season with at least 2 touchdown receptions – 8 (2007)
•Most yards receiving in a Pro Bowl game – 212 (2000)
•Most 1,200+ yard receiving seasons to start a career – 6 (1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003)
•Fastest player to reach 5,000 career receiving yards – 59 games
•Youngest player in NFL history to record 100 receiving touchdowns – (29 years and 235 days)
•Youngest player in NFL history to record 120 receiving touchdowns – (30 years, 313 days)

#5 All time receiving yards, #2 all time touchdowns scored, #10 all time receptions, single season receiving yardage record, single season receiving TD's record, rookie TD reception record, most games in a season w/ multiple TD receptions in history.

Do you really think Moss is not a 1st ballot Hall of Famer???

Case in point: the league says that the Hall of Fame is for people who changed the game. Randy Moss is the reason that Defensive coordinators had to invent the over-the-top safety coverage scheme, which he then managed to beat.
He's an ******* and a lunatic, but 9 people from the 1970s Raiders also happen to be in the HoF.

FinSaint · 03-08-2012, 09:35 PM

Originally Posted by gandhi1007

Neither Meachem or Devery are 6'4". Neither Devery or Meachem can still run a sub 4.4 forty. And finally.....neither Devery or Meachem have the hands that Moss does. Bottom line......neither of these guys will make the Hall of Fame. Meanwhile.....Moss is a for sure 1st ballot Hall of Famer. Case closed. Like him or love him......the dude is that good!

Yes, but he won't go into the HOF with the performances he has left in the tank, and that is for damn sure.

Steelers released 3 former pro-bowlers, should the Saints go after all of them based on their past performances?

And both Meachem and Henderson have been playing football during the time Moss has played switcheroo with NFL teams and taken a vacation from the game.

It's one thing to perform well on a glorified pro-day, but it's something completely different to do that on a Sunday when the chips are down and to keep doing that for the whole 17+ weeks.

FinSaint · 03-08-2012, 09:51 PM

I'm just erring on the side of caution when it comes to a player who hasn't seen any real football action in over a year.

We all know what Moss has been capable of in his prime and when he has been mentally focused, but there are no guarantees that the 2012 version of him will even be close to that.

And whether or not he comes cheap is beside the point, because he'd still take up a roster spot, and he might end up causing a rift within the team which might not be fixable by simply cutting him.

BGWhoDat · 03-08-2012, 11:31 PM

There's only 7 wide receivers in the HOF who started their careers after 1970. Only two were first ballot Largent and Rice.

Irvin got rejected once, Tim Brown and Andre Reed also have been rejected.

Moss is not first ballot. I don't care what his stats say. WR's aren't respected by voters for the HOF.

Fact.

gandhi1007 · 03-09-2012, 12:06 AM

Originally Posted by BGWhoDat

There's only 7 wide receivers in the HOF who started their careers after 1970. Only two were first ballot Largent and Rice.

Irvin got rejected once, Tim Brown and Andre Reed also have been rejected.

Moss is not first ballot. I don't care what his stats say. WR's aren't respected by voters for the HOF.

Fact.

Irvin, Brown, & Reed never put up the numbers Moss has. Neither did Largent. That's just a dumb argument. Fact is....only Jerry Rice holds trump over Moss as a wide receiver, and he played in his forties. If you really believe Moss is not 1st ballot material, you're fooling yourself or you don't know football! Even Michael Irvin himself said Moss should be a 1st ballot Hall of Famer & that compared to Rice & himself who always had great QB's......Moss played for average QB's at best most of his career. Stop hating on the guy!!!

03-08-2012, 07:18 PM	#1
gandhi1007 Part Time Pimp Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 1,967	Originally Posted by Danno I honestly could not disagree more with this statement. You and I frequently agree, but we are polar opposites on this one my friend. I'll make it simple...... neither Devery or Meachem have had a 1,000 yd. receiving season in their entire careers. Neither have had a double digit TD season either. Moss, on the other hand, has averaged over 1,100 yds. a season & nearly 12 TD's a season for the past 13 years. That's also averaging his 2006 & 2010 seasons where he didn't put up any stats. People can hate the guy all they want, but the fact remains......Randy Moss is one of the most prolific WR's of all time. Take that into account, the fact that he is so hungry for a ring, & the fact that he physically "still has it." You may disagree for personal reasons or whatever, but there is no doubt that Moss is a better player than Meachem or Henderson on any given day. P.S. - Randy's worst season is on par with either Devery or Meachem's career averages.
	http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g2...gs/12-3006.jpg ______________________________ KNOWING IS HALF THE BATTLE! -G.I. Joe

03-08-2012, 09:29 PM	#3
gandhi1007 Part Time Pimp Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 1,967	Originally Posted by FinSaint Needless to say that since both Henderson and Meachem are already familiar with SP's schemes and they have a chemistry relationship with Brees - they have the upper hand in a head-to-head comparison of potential future value. Neither Meachem or Devery are 6'4". Neither Devery or Meachem can still run a sub 4.4 forty. And finally.....neither Devery or Meachem have the hands that Moss does. Bottom line......neither of these guys will make the Hall of Fame. Meanwhile.....Moss is a for sure 1st ballot Hall of Famer. Case closed. Like him or love him......the dude is that good!

03-08-2012, 09:32 PM	#4
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,758	Originally Posted by gandhi1007 neither Devery or Meachem have the hands that Moss did. Moss is a for sure 1st ballot Hall of Famer. Case closed. Like him or love him......the dude was that good! Corrected it for you. Moss isn't a 1st ballot HOF either. Case wide open.

03-08-2012, 09:50 PM	#5
gandhi1007 Part Time Pimp Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 1,967	Originally Posted by Danno Moss isn't a 1st ballot HOF either. Are you serious??? Randy Moss made the Pro Bowl 7 times in his 13 years in the league (1998-2000, 2002-03, 2007, 2009), and was named Pro Bowl MVP in 2000. Moss was also an All-Pro selection five times. (1998, 2000, 2002, 2003, 2007) •Most touchdown receptions in a season – 23 (2007) •Most touchdown receptions by a rookie in a season – 17 (1998) •Most seasons with 17 or more touchdown receptions – 3 (1998, 2003, 2007) •Most games in a season with at least 2 touchdown receptions – 8 (2007) •Most yards receiving in a Pro Bowl game – 212 (2000) •Most 1,200+ yard receiving seasons to start a career – 6 (1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003) •Fastest player to reach 5,000 career receiving yards – 59 games •Youngest player in NFL history to record 100 receiving touchdowns – (29 years and 235 days) •Youngest player in NFL history to record 120 receiving touchdowns – (30 years, 313 days) #5 All time receiving yards, #2 all time touchdowns scored, #10 all time receptions, single season receiving yardage record, single season receiving TD's record, rookie TD reception record, most games in a season w/ multiple TD receptions in history. Do you really think Moss is not a 1st ballot Hall of Famer???
	http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g2...gs/12-3006.jpg ______________________________ KNOWING IS HALF THE BATTLE! -G.I. Joe

03-08-2012, 11:23 PM	#6
alexonfyre Site Donor Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Black Pearl University Posts: 799	Originally Posted by gandhi1007 Are you serious??? Randy Moss made the Pro Bowl 7 times in his 13 years in the league (1998-2000, 2002-03, 2007, 2009), and was named Pro Bowl MVP in 2000. Moss was also an All-Pro selection five times. (1998, 2000, 2002, 2003, 2007) •Most touchdown receptions in a season – 23 (2007) •Most touchdown receptions by a rookie in a season – 17 (1998) •Most seasons with 17 or more touchdown receptions – 3 (1998, 2003, 2007) •Most games in a season with at least 2 touchdown receptions – 8 (2007) •Most yards receiving in a Pro Bowl game – 212 (2000) •Most 1,200+ yard receiving seasons to start a career – 6 (1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003) •Fastest player to reach 5,000 career receiving yards – 59 games •Youngest player in NFL history to record 100 receiving touchdowns – (29 years and 235 days) •Youngest player in NFL history to record 120 receiving touchdowns – (30 years, 313 days) #5 All time receiving yards, #2 all time touchdowns scored, #10 all time receptions, single season receiving yardage record, single season receiving TD's record, rookie TD reception record, most games in a season w/ multiple TD receptions in history. Do you really think Moss is not a 1st ballot Hall of Famer??? Case in point: the league says that the Hall of Fame is for people who changed the game. Randy Moss is the reason that Defensive coordinators had to invent the over-the-top safety coverage scheme, which he then managed to beat. He's an ******* and a lunatic, but 9 people from the 1970s Raiders also happen to be in the HoF.

03-08-2012, 09:22 PM	#2
FinSaint Site Donor 2015 Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Finland... formerly Southern Virginia Posts: 4,964	I personally have fondness towards Moss because he was an important part of one of my favorite Vikings' teams ever, and I wouldn't have anything major against him playing for the Saints if the price was right and his production was up to par. But to make those comparisons to both Henderson and Meachem is not that fair, because they simply haven't played in similar roles during their respective careers. For example, if we take a look at the more recent level of performances (2009 regular season) head-to-head, we find that there isn't a big difference in Moss', Meachem's and Henderson's relative production levels. In 2009, Moss had 137 catches for a total of 1,264 yards (9.2 y/catch) with a catch % of 61%, and with 13 TDs and 2 fumbles. In 2009, Meachem had 64 catches for a total of 722 yards (11.2 y/catch) with a catch % of 70%, and with 9 TDs and 2 fumbles. In 2009, Henderson had 83 catches for a total of 804 yards (9.6 y/catch) with a catch % of 61%, and with 2 TDs and 0 fumbles. Looking at those numbers alone, I'd have to say that Meachem had better relative numbers than Moss, and if he had been targeted as much as Moss was, he would've exceeded Moss' numbers quite easily. If Meachem would've caught 137 catches like Moss did, his total yardage would've been 1,534 yards according to the average yardage per catch ratio he had that season. Furthermore, since Meachem's catch % was 9% higher than Moss', it is fair to deduce that he wouldn't have needed as many throws to get those 137 catches as Moss did. So numbers and stats are relative, and we can't just go by them when we are trying to evaluate which receiver would be the best option for the Saints going forward. Needless to say that since both Henderson and Meachem are already familiar with SP's schemes and they have a chemistry relationship with Brees - they have the upper hand in a head-to-head comparison of potential future value.
	"I'm not bashing people, I'm bashing their opinions because in my opinion their opinion is wrong" - Danno

03-08-2012, 09:35 PM	#7
FinSaint Site Donor 2015 Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Finland... formerly Southern Virginia Posts: 4,964	Originally Posted by gandhi1007 Neither Meachem or Devery are 6'4". Neither Devery or Meachem can still run a sub 4.4 forty. And finally.....neither Devery or Meachem have the hands that Moss does. Bottom line......neither of these guys will make the Hall of Fame. Meanwhile.....Moss is a for sure 1st ballot Hall of Famer. Case closed. Like him or love him......the dude is that good! Yes, but he won't go into the HOF with the performances he has left in the tank, and that is for damn sure. Steelers released 3 former pro-bowlers, should the Saints go after all of them based on their past performances? And both Meachem and Henderson have been playing football during the time Moss has played switcheroo with NFL teams and taken a vacation from the game. It's one thing to perform well on a glorified pro-day, but it's something completely different to do that on a Sunday when the chips are down and to keep doing that for the whole 17+ weeks.
	"I'm not bashing people, I'm bashing their opinions because in my opinion their opinion is wrong" - Danno

03-08-2012, 09:51 PM	#8
FinSaint Site Donor 2015 Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Finland... formerly Southern Virginia Posts: 4,964	I'm just erring on the side of caution when it comes to a player who hasn't seen any real football action in over a year. We all know what Moss has been capable of in his prime and when he has been mentally focused, but there are no guarantees that the 2012 version of him will even be close to that. And whether or not he comes cheap is beside the point, because he'd still take up a roster spot, and he might end up causing a rift within the team which might not be fixable by simply cutting him.
	"I'm not bashing people, I'm bashing their opinions because in my opinion their opinion is wrong" - Danno

03-08-2012, 11:31 PM	#9
BGWhoDat Who Dat Writer Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: New Orleans, LA Posts: 241	There's only 7 wide receivers in the HOF who started their careers after 1970. Only two were first ballot Largent and Rice. Irvin got rejected once, Tim Brown and Andre Reed also have been rejected. Moss is not first ballot. I don't care what his stats say. WR's aren't respected by voters for the HOF. Fact.

03-09-2012, 12:06 AM	#10
gandhi1007 Part Time Pimp Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 1,967	Originally Posted by BGWhoDat There's only 7 wide receivers in the HOF who started their careers after 1970. Only two were first ballot Largent and Rice. Irvin got rejected once, Tim Brown and Andre Reed also have been rejected. Moss is not first ballot. I don't care what his stats say. WR's aren't respected by voters for the HOF. Fact. Irvin, Brown, & Reed never put up the numbers Moss has. Neither did Largent. That's just a dumb argument. Fact is....only Jerry Rice holds trump over Moss as a wide receiver, and he played in his forties. If you really believe Moss is not 1st ballot material, you're fooling yourself or you don't know football! Even Michael Irvin himself said Moss should be a 1st ballot Hall of Famer & that compared to Rice & himself who always had great QB's......Moss played for average QB's at best most of his career. Stop hating on the guy!!!
	http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g2...gs/12-3006.jpg ______________________________ KNOWING IS HALF THE BATTLE! -G.I. Joe

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