Salary Cap vs. Player Cap

JimmyB1775 · 03-09-2012, 09:41 AM

I remember not long ago that the best guy on the field made 6 mil. Now, we're talking about 23?!?!?! If there's a salary cap in place why isn't there a player cap. The amount an individual player can make. I realize no GM in his right mind is going to spend 130 mil on 22 starters and leave the rest to perish. But free angency was started to do a number of things and the result was a more competitive league with players in dynasty programs finding the open market. Now, we're having to let multiple probowl guys go in order to keep JUST ONE. It doesn't make sense to me.
No, you shouldnt be able to retain the best players in the league forever but you shouldn't have to sacrifice them all for just one.
The situation we have now is Brees, Nicks, Colston, Porter, Meachem, and others (not as talented) are all up for contracts and signing one of them means sacrificing the rest. It just doesn't seem right. We're not a team with a crap GM that doesn't have a MBA and can't manage money. We have developed many good players from ground up. We shouldn't be penalized for that.

It just seems like the max a player can make is doubling and tripling the rate of inflation over the rest of the country and world.

Euphoria · 03-09-2012, 10:01 AM

There is a player cap...

Its is one of the things they changed but its more for the draft picks to prevent say Luck coming into the NFL and making 23 million while Manning and Brees are making under 20 million a year. That isn't really fair to the vets.

But you also have to respect capitalism as an American.

SaintsBro · 03-09-2012, 10:11 AM

It's getting harder and harder to have a true "dynasty" these days, and one of the strange results of the salary cap and league parity, is an increased emphasis on finding "diamonds in the rough" and unknown players for LESS money, and building them into stars. The Saints are actually far ahead of the curve in this, have been doing it for years, along with the Patriots and also Green Bay are also very good at this. I credit Payton and Loomis and company as being almost "visionary" in that they saw where the league was headed, they have been using this innovative approach for some time and having tremendous results with it.

Don't think of it as the Saints being "penalized" for building players up like Nicks, Colston, Pierre Thomas, etc., and then possibly losing them when/if they hit the open market in free agency. We're not being penalized. Try and think of it like this -- the reward, is that we have been able to win as much as we have, by finding these amazing guys that other people did not see, and winning with them the way we have. The time to cheer for these guys is while they are here on the field.

The reward for the fans is in the now, in the moment. The reward for the individual player may be to win a ring or make his name with the Saints, then get a bigger paycheck and go spend their last days playing for a miserable team that is 3-13. That's okay.

JimmyB1775 · 03-09-2012, 11:09 AM

I got you, Bro. I'm not saying we are literally being penalized. I'm just saying that the inflation of the top quarterback salary is far ahead of the inflation of the league minimum salary and total salary cap. The reason for this is the average contract/contract extension is 4.5 years. There are at least 10 quarterbacks with upper deck salaries. So two guys a year, (one if you go with the elite guys) are competing against the LAST biggest salary.
Right now, we have Manning (regardless of the current situation), Manning, Brady, Brees, Rogers, Ben, Vick (somehow), Ryan and one or two I didn't mention... all making arguments or having arguments made for them to get paid more than the last.
Thats how this crap works. It doesn't matter what they are worth, it only matters what precedent was set by the last guy.
In some crazy universe, Manning got his crazy contract and fell apart. Didn't play for a whole season. This was a glaring hole in the contract situation that teams never saw happening. You would think this made it harder for a player to get MORE money than Manning. Yet, the opposite is happening with Drew. Condon is trying to guarantee more money and more money up front in case the same thing happens. WTF! The Manning neck situation should HURT Condon's case for Brees, not help it.

alexonfyre · 03-09-2012, 12:46 PM

Originally Posted by JimmyB1775

I got you, Bro. I'm not saying we are literally being penalized. I'm just saying that the inflation of the top quarterback salary is far ahead of the inflation of the league minimum salary and total salary cap. The reason for this is the average contract/contract extension is 4.5 years. There are at least 10 quarterbacks with upper deck salaries. So two guys a year, (one if you go with the elite guys) are competing against the LAST biggest salary.
Right now, we have Manning (regardless of the current situation), Manning, Brady, Brees, Rogers, Ben, Vick (somehow), Ryan and one or two I didn't mention... all making arguments or having arguments made for them to get paid more than the last.
Thats how this crap works. It doesn't matter what they are worth, it only matters what precedent was set by the last guy.
In some crazy universe, Manning got his crazy contract and fell apart. Didn't play for a whole season. This was a glaring hole in the contract situation that teams never saw happening. You would think this made it harder for a player to get MORE money than Manning. Yet, the opposite is happening with Drew. Condon is trying to guarantee more money and more money up front in case the same thing happens. WTF! The Manning neck situation should HURT Condon's case for Brees, not help it.

I notice that none of the recent Super Bowl teams had the highest paid player on them (they got those deals afterwards.)
Seems like when you pay the premium for these guys you are buying your way into the playoffs, and then that's it. (It doesn't leave you with enough money to pay the rest of your team)

|Mitch| · 03-09-2012, 12:57 PM

The Player Cap that came with the new CBA, pertains to the rookie contracts only.

There should be a league wide cap on contracts, I think that would make for a more competitive league. Rather than allocating 20+ million a year on a QB and the defense suffering, because the money just ain't there...

Euphoria · 03-09-2012, 01:04 PM

Originally Posted by JimmyB1775

I got you, Bro. I'm not saying we are literally being penalized. I'm just saying that the inflation of the top quarterback salary is far ahead of the inflation of the league minimum salary and total salary cap. The reason for this is the average contract/contract extension is 4.5 years. There are at least 10 quarterbacks with upper deck salaries. So two guys a year, (one if you go with the elite guys) are competing against the LAST biggest salary.
Right now, we have Manning (regardless of the current situation), Manning, Brady, Brees, Rogers, Ben, Vick (somehow), Ryan and one or two I didn't mention... all making arguments or having arguments made for them to get paid more than the last.
Thats how this crap works. It doesn't matter what they are worth, it only matters what precedent was set by the last guy.
In some crazy universe, Manning got his crazy contract and fell apart. Didn't play for a whole season. This was a glaring hole in the contract situation that teams never saw happening. You would think this made it harder for a player to get MORE money than Manning. Yet, the opposite is happening with Drew. Condon is trying to guarantee more money and more money up front in case the same thing happens. WTF! The Manning neck situation should HURT Condon's case for Brees, not help it.

Well you also want more money up front because I don't think Bree's last 4-5 years.

FinSaint · 03-09-2012, 01:22 PM

Also, another "problem" pertaining to this is that the NFL is making so much profit that it is only logical that the players want an increasing part of that profit i.e. higher salaries, because - after all - they are playing a vital role in the whole success of the league.

I think the salaries will keep increasing for all positions, and the new TV deal that begins in the 2014 season will facilitate that trend quite nicely. But at some point the salaries and salary budgets will increase to the point that the owners will no longer accept it and a lockout will ensue.

After a missed season of play, a new understanding is found between the owners and the players, which will reduce all base salaries across the board, and then the whole thing will start all over again.

alexonfyre · 03-09-2012, 02:37 PM

Originally Posted by FinSaint

Also, another "problem" pertaining to this is that the NFL is making so much profit that it is only logical that the players want an increasing part of that profit i.e. higher salaries, because - after all - they are playing a vital role in the whole success of the league.

I think the salaries will keep increasing for all positions, and the new TV deal that begins in the 2014 season will facilitate that trend quite nicely. But at some point the salaries and salary budgets will increase to the point that the owners will no longer accept it and a lockout will ensue.

After a missed season of play, a new understanding is found between the owners and the players, which will reduce all base salaries across the board, and then the whole thing will start all over again.

The problem is everyone wants more when they are playing better than average, but they don't go back down when they aren't (*cough*Vilma*cough*) so the player salaries go up and up and up without any break or relief.

saintfan · 03-09-2012, 03:32 PM

How about "Bust"-a-cap?

on the very next player who tries to hold our team up for millions?

03-09-2012, 09:41 AM	#1
JimmyB1775 100th Post Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: San Diego Posts: 216 Blog Entries: 1	Salary Cap vs. Player Cap I remember not long ago that the best guy on the field made 6 mil. Now, we're talking about 23?!?!?! If there's a salary cap in place why isn't there a player cap. The amount an individual player can make. I realize no GM in his right mind is going to spend 130 mil on 22 starters and leave the rest to perish. But free angency was started to do a number of things and the result was a more competitive league with players in dynasty programs finding the open market. Now, we're having to let multiple probowl guys go in order to keep JUST ONE. It doesn't make sense to me. No, you shouldnt be able to retain the best players in the league forever but you shouldn't have to sacrifice them all for just one. The situation we have now is Brees, Nicks, Colston, Porter, Meachem, and others (not as talented) are all up for contracts and signing one of them means sacrificing the rest. It just doesn't seem right. We're not a team with a crap GM that doesn't have a MBA and can't manage money. We have developed many good players from ground up. We shouldn't be penalized for that. It just seems like the max a player can make is doubling and tripling the rate of inflation over the rest of the country and world.

03-09-2012, 10:11 AM	#3
SaintsBro Site Donor Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: in line with my ridiculous CLEAR PLASTIC BAG Posts: 3,650 Blog Entries: 3	It's getting harder and harder to have a true "dynasty" these days, and one of the strange results of the salary cap and league parity, is an increased emphasis on finding "diamonds in the rough" and unknown players for LESS money, and building them into stars. The Saints are actually far ahead of the curve in this, have been doing it for years, along with the Patriots and also Green Bay are also very good at this. I credit Payton and Loomis and company as being almost "visionary" in that they saw where the league was headed, they have been using this innovative approach for some time and having tremendous results with it. Don't think of it as the Saints being "penalized" for building players up like Nicks, Colston, Pierre Thomas, etc., and then possibly losing them when/if they hit the open market in free agency. We're not being penalized. Try and think of it like this -- the reward, is that we have been able to win as much as we have, by finding these amazing guys that other people did not see, and winning with them the way we have. The time to cheer for these guys is while they are here on the field. The reward for the fans is in the now, in the moment. The reward for the individual player may be to win a ring or make his name with the Saints, then get a bigger paycheck and go spend their last days playing for a miserable team that is 3-13. That's okay. FinSaint and SloMotion like this.

03-09-2012, 12:46 PM	#5
alexonfyre Site Donor Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Black Pearl University Posts: 799	Originally Posted by JimmyB1775 I got you, Bro. I'm not saying we are literally being penalized. I'm just saying that the inflation of the top quarterback salary is far ahead of the inflation of the league minimum salary and total salary cap. The reason for this is the average contract/contract extension is 4.5 years. There are at least 10 quarterbacks with upper deck salaries. So two guys a year, (one if you go with the elite guys) are competing against the LAST biggest salary. Right now, we have Manning (regardless of the current situation), Manning, Brady, Brees, Rogers, Ben, Vick (somehow), Ryan and one or two I didn't mention... all making arguments or having arguments made for them to get paid more than the last. Thats how this crap works. It doesn't matter what they are worth, it only matters what precedent was set by the last guy. In some crazy universe, Manning got his crazy contract and fell apart. Didn't play for a whole season. This was a glaring hole in the contract situation that teams never saw happening. You would think this made it harder for a player to get MORE money than Manning. Yet, the opposite is happening with Drew. Condon is trying to guarantee more money and more money up front in case the same thing happens. WTF! The Manning neck situation should HURT Condon's case for Brees, not help it. I notice that none of the recent Super Bowl teams had the highest paid player on them (they got those deals afterwards.) Seems like when you pay the premium for these guys you are buying your way into the playoffs, and then that's it. (It doesn't leave you with enough money to pay the rest of your team)

03-09-2012, 01:04 PM	#7
Euphoria 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 7,601 Blog Entries: 5	Originally Posted by JimmyB1775 I got you, Bro. I'm not saying we are literally being penalized. I'm just saying that the inflation of the top quarterback salary is far ahead of the inflation of the league minimum salary and total salary cap. The reason for this is the average contract/contract extension is 4.5 years. There are at least 10 quarterbacks with upper deck salaries. So two guys a year, (one if you go with the elite guys) are competing against the LAST biggest salary. Right now, we have Manning (regardless of the current situation), Manning, Brady, Brees, Rogers, Ben, Vick (somehow), Ryan and one or two I didn't mention... all making arguments or having arguments made for them to get paid more than the last. Thats how this crap works. It doesn't matter what they are worth, it only matters what precedent was set by the last guy. In some crazy universe, Manning got his crazy contract and fell apart. Didn't play for a whole season. This was a glaring hole in the contract situation that teams never saw happening. You would think this made it harder for a player to get MORE money than Manning. Yet, the opposite is happening with Drew. Condon is trying to guarantee more money and more money up front in case the same thing happens. WTF! The Manning neck situation should HURT Condon's case for Brees, not help it. Well you also want more money up front because I don't think Bree's last 4-5 years.

03-09-2012, 01:22 PM	#8
FinSaint Site Donor 2015 Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Finland... formerly Southern Virginia Posts: 4,961	Also, another "problem" pertaining to this is that the NFL is making so much profit that it is only logical that the players want an increasing part of that profit i.e. higher salaries, because - after all - they are playing a vital role in the whole success of the league. I think the salaries will keep increasing for all positions, and the new TV deal that begins in the 2014 season will facilitate that trend quite nicely. But at some point the salaries and salary budgets will increase to the point that the owners will no longer accept it and a lockout will ensue. After a missed season of play, a new understanding is found between the owners and the players, which will reduce all base salaries across the board, and then the whole thing will start all over again.
	"I'm not bashing people, I'm bashing their opinions because in my opinion their opinion is wrong" - Danno

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03-09-2012, 10:01 AM	#2
Euphoria 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 7,601 Blog Entries: 5	There is a player cap... Its is one of the things they changed but its more for the draft picks to prevent say Luck coming into the NFL and making 23 million while Manning and Brees are making under 20 million a year. That isn't really fair to the vets. But you also have to respect capitalism as an American.

03-09-2012, 11:09 AM	#4
JimmyB1775 100th Post Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: San Diego Posts: 216 Blog Entries: 1	I got you, Bro. I'm not saying we are literally being penalized. I'm just saying that the inflation of the top quarterback salary is far ahead of the inflation of the league minimum salary and total salary cap. The reason for this is the average contract/contract extension is 4.5 years. There are at least 10 quarterbacks with upper deck salaries. So two guys a year, (one if you go with the elite guys) are competing against the LAST biggest salary. Right now, we have Manning (regardless of the current situation), Manning, Brady, Brees, Rogers, Ben, Vick (somehow), Ryan and one or two I didn't mention... all making arguments or having arguments made for them to get paid more than the last. Thats how this crap works. It doesn't matter what they are worth, it only matters what precedent was set by the last guy. In some crazy universe, Manning got his crazy contract and fell apart. Didn't play for a whole season. This was a glaring hole in the contract situation that teams never saw happening. You would think this made it harder for a player to get MORE money than Manning. Yet, the opposite is happening with Drew. Condon is trying to guarantee more money and more money up front in case the same thing happens. WTF! The Manning neck situation should HURT Condon's case for Brees, not help it.

03-09-2012, 12:57 PM	#6
\|Mitch\| 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Alexandria, La Posts: 11,303	The Player Cap that came with the new CBA, pertains to the rookie contracts only. There should be a league wide cap on contracts, I think that would make for a more competitive league. Rather than allocating 20+ million a year on a QB and the defense suffering, because the money just ain't there...

03-09-2012, 02:37 PM	#9
alexonfyre Site Donor Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Black Pearl University Posts: 799	Originally Posted by FinSaint Also, another "problem" pertaining to this is that the NFL is making so much profit that it is only logical that the players want an increasing part of that profit i.e. higher salaries, because - after all - they are playing a vital role in the whole success of the league. I think the salaries will keep increasing for all positions, and the new TV deal that begins in the 2014 season will facilitate that trend quite nicely. But at some point the salaries and salary budgets will increase to the point that the owners will no longer accept it and a lockout will ensue. After a missed season of play, a new understanding is found between the owners and the players, which will reduce all base salaries across the board, and then the whole thing will start all over again. The problem is everyone wants more when they are playing better than average, but they don't go back down when they aren't (coughVilmacough) so the player salaries go up and up and up without any break or relief.

03-09-2012, 03:32 PM	#10
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	How about "Bust"-a-cap? on the very next player who tries to hold our team up for millions?

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