Mike D agrees on Vilma
 

Mike D says,
In Round One, I would take the sure thing. MLB. Jonathan Vilma from Miami (Fla.).
In Round 2, I would go after the top cornerback available..

For the rest....
http://www.saintsreport.com/cgi-bin/...&id=1081942136

Mike D agrees on Vilma
 

Wouldn\'t hurt my feelings one bit.
I prefer Robinson, but Vilma is a close 2nd.
With the addition of Craft , which affords us the opportunity to let a 2nd round CB develop, its now basically a toss up between Vilma, Robinson and DJ.
Craft is a Thomas clone.
A 2nd round CB would take about half a season to adjust enough to contribute significantly.
Without Craft we needed a day 1 starter at CB. I\'m not even sure Hall or Robinson would be ready day one. Robinson maybe.

[Edited on 14/4/2004 by Danno]

Mike D agrees on Vilma
 

I agree. We don\'t know if any of the corners will be able to start right away. I don\'t care if we take Vilma/Williams (I read yesterday that some people think DJ Williams can play the middle too.) or take Smith or Watson in the 2nd. I just feel that we really really need an upgrade at middle linebacker or our defense will never be better.

I heard Jeff Duncan from the Times on my local sports radio station yesterday and he said, \"Even though Haslett was a linebacker, he doesn\'t believe it is a very important position in the defense.\"

What??? :casstet: :casstet: :casstet: :casstet: :casstet: :casstet: :casstet: :casstet:

Mike D agrees on Vilma
 

That has to be the most obvious smoke-screen I have ever seen.

But yeah. Anyone who watched our games last year knows we couldn\'t stop the run. That was the downfall of our D. We need youth at the corners but we need to stop the run a whole lot more. Remember, a good front 7 can make average CB\'s look great (see tampa, and to some extent the panthers). You win in the NFL by running the football and stopping the run. We got one half of that set, now we need to get the other.

Mike D agrees on Vilma
 

See Tampa? Have you lost your mind? They didnt stop the Deuce at all in the two games during there Super Bowl run. And do you honestly believe that Ronde Barber is a sub standard CB? He and Brian Kelly form one of the best combos in the league. I agree with you on the Carolina observation but not all with Tampa Bay.

Mike D agrees on Vilma
 

Deuce runs on everybody tho.

And yes, I believe Barber & Kelly are products of a system. Move them to a team like the Steelers and they would be average.

Mike D agrees on Vilma
 

OK...Ronde Barber could be a lockdown corner for pretty much any team in the league...hands down....Brian Kelly led the league in picks 2 years ago and would be solid for anyone he played with. There is not a team in the league that could make these guys look average...espiecally not Barber.

Mike D agrees on Vilma
 

rAge, do you honestly believe everything you type? Just because someone says Tampa plays alot of Cover 2, you say oh well he must be a product of the system. That just prove me and Jimbone\'s point, you don\'t know much about football talent. You can\'t sit there and believe Barber is the product of a system. Maybe Olandis Gary was a product of the Denver system as far a running backs go. Maybe some guys on the Patriots D, with the exception of Law and Seymour, are products of that system because Belichick can plug anyone into that system and be just as sucessful. What killed Tampa last year, Kelly missed almost the entire season and they missed him bad. If he was a product of the system, then the next guy would not have any problem filling in. That was not the case here.

Mike D agrees on Vilma
 

[quote. What killed Tampa last year, Kelly missed almost the entire season and they missed him bad. If he was a product of the system, then the next guy would not have any problem filling in. That was not the case here. [/quote:522c957722]

Chalk one up for the Boogerman

Mike D agrees on Vilma
 

Where do you guys think Williams will fall?

Mike D agrees on Vilma
 

I assume you mean DJ, not reggie, mike or roy.

I say DJ and Vilma are both there when we pick.

Mike D agrees on Vilma
 

Yes DJ..........he is big and fast........man that would be a tough choice I watched both of those guys play alot. Either would be a great addition.

Mike D agrees on Vilma
 

Yes, lots of players are products of a system. I know that. Just because I say that, doesn\'t mean the players aren\'t valuable (as you pointed out, kelly going down last year. altho that wasn\'t the only problem with the team). Kelly going down wouldn\'t of hurt as bad if they would of had backups, but all they had was a pair of 5\'7\" special teamers who weren\'t ever supposed to play corner. That\'s why they went out and signed Mario Edwards & Tom Knight this offseason. I said Kelly & Barber would be average on most teams, yes...average, not sorry players who can\'t cover anyone, but average. The two backups the Bucs had last year were awful. They didn\'t even make good nickelback\'s. Put Fred Thomas in Barber\'s place and he would be in the probowl and leading the league in INT\'s as well. It doesn\'t mean he is a great corner.

BTW, INT\'s don\'t make you a good corner. I would much rather have a shut-down corner like Winfield, who doesn\'t get a lot of INT\'s, than a guy like Barber who is average in man-to-man but can pick the ball off.

Mike D agrees on Vilma
 

rAge, Ronde Barber average in any other system? Come on now. If the Bucs\' system was so great, you could plug ANY corner in there and do the same job. If you plug in Fred Thomas for Ronde Barber, you wouldn\'t have the same amount of ints. Did you see Thomas miss all them ints last year? One was in the endzone and he was just standing there and the ball hit him in a bad spot. Right dead in his hands and he dropped it. Thomas could have had at least 5 interceptions last year, which is a big deal to me. Turnovers are a key part of a football game.

Mike D agrees on Vilma
 

The only difference in Barber and Winfield is that Barber catches the ball. Both of them put themelves in positions to make plays but Winfield just doenst catch the ball. Hence, Barber is the better CB.

Mike D agrees on Vilma
 

You can\'t be serious. Barber better than Winfield? Hahaha. Winfield is a top 5 corner. Possibly the most under-rated player in the entire league. Barber couldn\'t hold his jock.

Mike D agrees on Vilma
 

That\'s pretty funny. Why don\'t you compare the stats and see for yourself? That\'s all I have to say. Barber is better

Mike D agrees on Vilma
 

mike d is on crack. wed be better off tradin up for sean taylor and converting him to mlb--he\'s bigger, faster and a better player than vilma the midget anyhow.

Mike D agrees on Vilma
 

Charles Woodson, Champ Bailey, Chris McAllister, Ty Law, Troy Vincent, Booby Taylor, Aaron Glenn, Pat Surtain, Sam Madison, Dre Bly, Nate Clements...I would take all of those guys along with Ronde Barber before i would take Winfield. Winfield is a good corner, but not even close to a top 5. Not even top 10. He will never be able to call himself an elite corner.

Mike D agrees on Vilma
 

Stats don\'t tell the entire story, but even so - the only thing Barber has better than Winfield is INT\'s. Winfield is one of the best man-to-man corners in the league and is the best corner against the run.

Mike D agrees on Vilma
 

The first four, sure. Vincent? No. He is old and on a big decline. Booby Taylor? Who is that? Bobby? I\'m an ND fan, but even I know that guy is nothing more than a #2 CB. Glenn? I suppose that\'s why Houston got tourched last year, right? Glenn is solid, but he is not top 10 and damn sure isn\'t better than Winfield. Sam Madison is the most over-rated corner in the league, just ask Dolphins fans. And Nate Clements wasn\'t even the best corner on his team last year...and who was he playing accross from? Oh yeah, Winfield.

So he may not be top 5, but he is damn sure top 6-7. And Barber isn\'t even as good as the guys I just trashed. I will go back to the Fred Thomas thing again - if he was on the Bucs, he would be as good as Barber.

Mike D agrees on Vilma
 

I liken Fred Thomas to Winfield. I think that they are one in the same. They are both short, better than average speed, and good cover skills. Neither of them can catch and neither of them are top 10. I think the Bills could have found a way to keep Winfield if they wanted him but even their front office knows that Nate Clements is better. Winfield is overrated. Vilma is overrated. McNabb is overrated. Paris Hilton is overrated. You...well you at least make a decent argument...but your arguments are overrated.

Mike D agrees on Vilma
 

Yeah, ok. Fred Thomas is a poor-mans Winfield.

Mike D agrees on Vilma
 

well, people say Benson is cheap...so there you have it...a poor mans Winfield

Mike D agrees on Vilma
 

vilma to winfield, odd topic change

Mike D agrees on Vilma
 

I agree man. I can probably add Ahmed Plummer and Samari Rolle before I\'d take Winfield too.

Mike D agrees on Vilma
 

Booby Taylor...That was a good one. I cant type...my typing is overrated too. Everyone knows i meant Bobby.