I can't believe the point they totally ignored that the girl was under age and he bought her drinks... wouldn't let her leave, kidnapping but its a NFL start other than the Saints so its ok.

So does the OP think that the penalties were excessive or not? I saw a poll that most of the country outside of LA, TX, MS, AL & AR thought the penalties were fair & just. What's your answer?

I think that the penalties were absolutely fair and just. As I said before, the NFL made it clear that the penalties were not just for the bounties but, particularly in the case of Payton, for lying to investigators and trying to cover things up. Remember that the Saints were given a chance to stop this without penalties when the league first approached them about the bounties. Several team officials chose to lie to the league instead of taking this chance to put things right without imposition of severe penalties.

As for "everyone else is doing it" the commissioner can only act on the evidence he is given. If someone came to him with similiar evidence of this system on any other team he would investigate it, because that's his job. There's a reason he asked the other 31 teams to certify that they have no such programs. If somebody blows the whistle on another team after they swore to having no such programs, it paves the way for swift imposition of penalties. Unless you think he's out to "get" the Saints. But, for several reasons I noted in my original post, that theory does not hold up to even a cursory look at how the league has supported and actively marketed the Saints franchise over the past several years.

One other important thing to note is that it doesn't really matter if the Saints actually did take cheap shots or successfully injure other players (although as the NFL noted in its report, the Saints were near the top of the league in illegal hitting penalties for each of the seasons when Williams was the D coordinator). The offering of bounties is wrong regardless of whether or not they were successfully carried out. For example, hiring a hit man is illegal even if he doesn't kill his target. Obviously two very different acts, but the logic is the same.

I just think, when you get right down to it, Sean Payton and other team officials are the reason the Saints are in this position right now. This was not about hard hits, this was about targeting other players for injury in a systematic fashion and a subsequent attempt at a coverup when the league investigated. I don't see how Goodell could have done any less given what Payton and others admitted to doing.

Proof enough for you?

Kyle Williams Concussions: Giants Targeted 49ers Player Due To Previous Head Injuries

how about this?

http://www.fannation.com/si_blogs/nf...er/posts/17001

I should apologize if it sounded like I thought all Saints fans felt the same way and I also realize that my post about "misdirected anger" could have come across as condescending. That really wasn't my intent and I apologize if I sounded that way.

That isn't proof but it's absolutely something that might warrant investigation. And given that the NFL already investigated the Redskins and Bills in connection to Williams coaching positions with those teams, I wouldn't be surprised if these kind of comments lead to investigations. But another important thing to remember is that people went to the league directly with evidence of a bounty program going on. If similar evidence was brought to the league regarding other teams, I am sure an investigation would be launched.

You're telling me this ain't proof? :rolleyes:

This bounty system has always been practiced league wide... it's nothing new. This isn't about being punished, it was deserved. It's about being made as an example and excessively punished by Goodell to get his point across.

Report: Tennessee Titans and Baltimore Ravens had bounty programs in place - National NFL | Examiner.com

It's pathetic how the media and fans(including ours) can be completely oblivious as if it's something new and inhumane. It's been utilized by virtually every team in some way, shape, or form throughout the leagues existence. All those people with those hoity toity holier than thou opinions can shove it and start watching ping pong.

Next thing you know the Senate is going to start coming down on Nascar drivers that intentionally bump other drivers for better position... someone could get hurt. As if driving 200 mph wasn't risky in the first place.

How much money did the NFL make off of the highest rated program in TV history (yes, that would be the Saints beating the Colts in the Super Bowl)?! Is Goodell willing to give up some of his salary that he made off the very team that he's punishing?! Not bloody likely. It must be nice to be the Packers... Get busted for having a bounty program 5 years ago and get off the hook unpunished because someone didn't snitch that they were probably still doing it. Sorry for ranting... The whole thing just sucks.

The strong reaction against the saints we've seen from many players and the almost non existent statements of "this is unfair" from players would indicate that what the Saints did goes beyond what happens in other locker rooms. Can't say that for sure, but when was the last time you saw so many players actively condemning other players in the league for things that typically are understood to stay in the locker room?