Brees "close" to signing long-term deal.

spkb25 · 04-13-2012, 07:27 PM

Im gonna lose a lot of respect for him if he doesn't show up. plain and simple. I'll support him when he gets back, but I think I'll look at him a little differently from here on out

W. Kovacs · 04-13-2012, 10:49 PM

Originally Posted by spkb25

Im gonna lose a lot of respect for him if he doesn't show up. plain and simple. I'll support him when he gets back, but I think I'll look at him a little differently from here on out

I sort of agreed with you until this morning. On SportsCenter or NFL Network (I was in a hotel, not really sure which I was watching) they showed the tackle where Brees blew out his shoulder.

As someone who has had his shoulder reconstructed and is desperately trying to avoid the same surgery on the other side, I nearly vomited it looked so bad.

I know that playing under the tag had nothing to do with the injury. I also know that playing under the tag now does nothing to increase the odds that he'll have an injury like that again. But if that happened to me the last time I played under a tag, I'd say thanks, but no thanks. (If I was Drew, I mean. If someone offered me $14mm a year to play football right now, I'd be the tackling dummy for that much cash!)

This is also his last chance to get a huge contract. If he signs the tag, he can't hold out any more because he'll be under contract to play. If he gets injured in the weight room at an offseason practice and can't play again, he's effed.

Also, these activities are VERY limited. Weight lifting, conditioning, stuff like that. Coaches can't be on the fields with players, they're not even allowed to use footballs in most workouts!

Real OTAs start next month.

And let's not forget to take into account that The Saints aren't exactly without fault, here. They could have signed Drew to a long term extension before he went out and had arguably, the best year a QB ever had and jacked up his price. Or they could have signed him as soon as they heard stuff was coming down about the Bounty Scandal and Drew's leverage went through the roof. They did neither.

Imagine your job and the following scenario:
1. You've been doing your job exceptionally well for the last 5 years.
2. There is no one available internally or externally who can do your job as well as you.
3. There is a HUGE project coming up where you're expertise is vital.
4. It's annual review time and there are other companies who would practically kill to have you on their staff.

Are you not going to do everything in your power to negotiate the best raise you possibly can?

Would I think MORE highly of him if he went? Probably. But if he doesn't: no big deal...

FinSaint · 04-14-2012, 01:41 AM

Originally Posted by W. Kovacs

And let's not forget to take into account that The Saints aren't exactly without fault, here. They could have signed Drew to a long term extension before he went out and had arguably, the best year a QB ever had and jacked up his price. Or they could have signed him as soon as they heard stuff was coming down about the Bounty Scandal and Drew's leverage went through the roof. They did neither.

And let us not forget that they tried to do exactly that after the 2010 season, but Brees' side turned their offer down, which according to many reports was a very lucrative offer.

Budsdrinker · 04-16-2012, 04:06 PM

Originally Posted by W. Kovacs

I sort of agreed with you until this morning. On SportsCenter or NFL Network (I was in a hotel, not really sure which I was watching) they showed the tackle where Brees blew out his shoulder.

As someone who has had his shoulder reconstructed and is desperately trying to avoid the same surgery on the other side, I nearly vomited it looked so bad.

I know that playing under the tag had nothing to do with the injury. I also know that playing under the tag now does nothing to increase the odds that he'll have an injury like that again. But if that happened to me the last time I played under a tag, I'd say thanks, but no thanks. (If I was Drew, I mean. If someone offered me $14mm a year to play football right now, I'd be the tackling dummy for that much cash!)

This is also his last chance to get a huge contract. If he signs the tag, he can't hold out any more because he'll be under contract to play. If he gets injured in the weight room at an offseason practice and can't play again, he's effed.

Also, these activities are VERY limited. Weight lifting, conditioning, stuff like that. Coaches can't be on the fields with players, they're not even allowed to use footballs in most workouts!

Real OTAs start next month.

And let's not forget to take into account that The Saints aren't exactly without fault, here. They could have signed Drew to a long term extension before he went out and had arguably, the best year a QB ever had and jacked up his price. Or they could have signed him as soon as they heard stuff was coming down about the Bounty Scandal and Drew's leverage went through the roof. They did neither.

Imagine your job and the following scenario:
1. You've been doing your job exceptionally well for the last 5 years.
2. There is no one available internally or externally who can do your job as well as you.
3. There is a HUGE project coming up where you're expertise is vital.
4. It's annual review time and there are other companies who would practically kill to have you on their staff.

Are you not going to do everything in your power to negotiate the best raise you possibly can?

Would I think MORE highly of him if he went? Probably. But if he doesn't: no big deal...

The problem I have with this way of thinking and I believe Danno brought this up before is that what was the difference in playing in 2011 when that was the last year of your contract vs this year under a franchise tag? In both cases it's a 1 year deal and you can't play the game worried about being injured. And I'm sure even if Drew has a 5 year deal, that there is some type of injury clause that voids the life of the contract or a buyout clause. So his using the last time he played under the tag, he was injured and it didn't go well for him doesn't fly in my book.

W. Kovacs · 04-16-2012, 05:17 PM

Originally Posted by Budsdrinker

The problem I have with this way of thinking and I believe Danno brought this up before is that what was the difference in playing in 2011 when that was the last year of your contract vs this year under a franchise tag? In both cases it's a 1 year deal and you can't play the game worried about being injured. And I'm sure even if Drew has a 5 year deal, that there is some type of injury clause that voids the life of the contract or a buyout clause. So his using the last time he played under the tag, he was injured and it didn't go well for him doesn't fly in my book.

If anything, to me, this shows that he doesn't deserve the vitriol he seems to have directed at him.

He did right by our team by taking a huge risk playing without a contract last year. Oh, and had, arguably, the best regular season a QB has ever had and, what should have been, two playoff games for us (the second, he won twice before the D blew it just as many times).

Now, he seems to have met the upper limit of his risk tolerance and he has to do what he thinks is right for him and has yet to do anything that hurts the team in doing so.

I've said it before and I will again: if he holds out from Camp, I may start to change my mind. We need him and his leadership on the field this year more than ever...

FinSaint · 04-16-2012, 05:22 PM

Originally Posted by W. Kovacs

If anything, to me, this shows that he doesn't deserve the vitriol he seems to have directed at him.

He did right by our team by taking a huge risk playing without a contract last year. Oh, and had, arguably, the best regular season a QB has ever had and, what should have been, two playoff games for us (the second, he won twice before the D blew it just as many times).

He was under contract and he wasn't doing the team any favors by completing his contract.

C'mon!

ScottF · 04-16-2012, 04:16 PM

Originally Posted by W. Kovacs

I sort of agreed with you until this morning. On SportsCenter or NFL Network (I was in a hotel, not really sure which I was watching) they showed the tackle where Brees blew out his shoulder.

As someone who has had his shoulder reconstructed and is desperately trying to avoid the same surgery on the other side, I nearly vomited it looked so bad.

I know that playing under the tag had nothing to do with the injury. I also know that playing under the tag now does nothing to increase the odds that he'll have an injury like that again. But if that happened to me the last time I played under a tag, I'd say thanks, but no thanks. (If I was Drew, I mean. If someone offered me $14mm a year to play football right now, I'd be the tackling dummy for that much cash!)

This is also his last chance to get a huge contract. If he signs the tag, he can't hold out any more because he'll be under contract to play. If he gets injured in the weight room at an offseason practice and can't play again, he's effed.

Also, these activities are VERY limited. Weight lifting, conditioning, stuff like that. Coaches can't be on the fields with players, they're not even allowed to use footballs in most workouts!

Real OTAs start next month.

And let's not forget to take into account that The Saints aren't exactly without fault, here. They could have signed Drew to a long term extension before he went out and had arguably, the best year a QB ever had and jacked up his price. Or they could have signed him as soon as they heard stuff was coming down about the Bounty Scandal and Drew's leverage went through the roof. They did neither.

Imagine your job and the following scenario:
1. You've been doing your job exceptionally well for the last 5 years.
2. There is no one available internally or externally who can do your job as well as you.
3. There is a HUGE project coming up where you're expertise is vital.
4. It's annual review time and there are other companies who would practically kill to have you on their staff.

Are you not going to do everything in your power to negotiate the best raise you possibly can?

Would I think MORE highly of him if he went? Probably. But if he doesn't: no big deal...

I guess it depends. Is the project a lot of fun, something I love doing, for a company I am loyal to, and oh, have I already earned 100 million dollars this decade???

W. Kovacs · 04-16-2012, 05:05 PM

Originally Posted by ScottF

I guess it depends. Is the project a lot of fun, something I love doing, for a company I am loyal to, and oh, have I already earned 100 million dollars this decade???

If you want to go there, we can also ask whether your job puts your health and body at risk.

My shoulders hurt every day after my injures, I can't imagine what a pro-athlete feels like after they retire.

As for it being fun, I think it was Michael Jordan who had a great comment on the fact that sports isn't fun for these guys. The pressure they put on themselves to win, the amount of work they have to put in, the stress they're under...it's not fun. Is it more fun than emptying cesspools or being a soldier? Probably. But it's not fun like you or me going to the park on Saturday for a game of touch football.

Finally, what are the benefits to the company for completing the project? Could you, potentially, make your company 5, 10, 25 times your salary back? Why is it okay for the team to make money but not the player?

Also, Ed Werder reported on ESPN today that Brees' camp never requested $23 million dollars. We have no clue what's happening behind the scenes here, I don't think it makes sense to pass judgement on anything until Training Camp opens. If Brees doesn't show there, I'll have issues. Until then, he gets the benefit of the doubt from me...

Danno · 04-16-2012, 05:14 PM

Originally Posted by W. Kovacs

Could you, potentially, make your company 5, 10, 25 times your salary back? Why is it okay for the team to make money but not the player?

I take issue with this. The market determines a man's salary, not how much he can make his owner. If someone can do the job cheaper and the company still make money, then they should go with the lower costs.

How much money a boss makes is irrelevant to how much the employee makes. Markets will correct that.

04-13-2012, 10:49 PM	#2
W. Kovacs 500th Post Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Milwaukee, WI Posts: 514	Originally Posted by spkb25 Im gonna lose a lot of respect for him if he doesn't show up. plain and simple. I'll support him when he gets back, but I think I'll look at him a little differently from here on out I sort of agreed with you until this morning. On SportsCenter or NFL Network (I was in a hotel, not really sure which I was watching) they showed the tackle where Brees blew out his shoulder. As someone who has had his shoulder reconstructed and is desperately trying to avoid the same surgery on the other side, I nearly vomited it looked so bad. I know that playing under the tag had nothing to do with the injury. I also know that playing under the tag now does nothing to increase the odds that he'll have an injury like that again. But if that happened to me the last time I played under a tag, I'd say thanks, but no thanks. (If I was Drew, I mean. If someone offered me $14mm a year to play football right now, I'd be the tackling dummy for that much cash!) This is also his last chance to get a huge contract. If he signs the tag, he can't hold out any more because he'll be under contract to play. If he gets injured in the weight room at an offseason practice and can't play again, he's effed. Also, these activities are VERY limited. Weight lifting, conditioning, stuff like that. Coaches can't be on the fields with players, they're not even allowed to use footballs in most workouts! Real OTAs start next month. And let's not forget to take into account that The Saints aren't exactly without fault, here. They could have signed Drew to a long term extension before he went out and had arguably, the best year a QB ever had and jacked up his price. Or they could have signed him as soon as they heard stuff was coming down about the Bounty Scandal and Drew's leverage went through the roof. They did neither. Imagine your job and the following scenario: 1. You've been doing your job exceptionally well for the last 5 years. 2. There is no one available internally or externally who can do your job as well as you. 3. There is a HUGE project coming up where you're expertise is vital. 4. It's annual review time and there are other companies who would practically kill to have you on their staff. Are you not going to do everything in your power to negotiate the best raise you possibly can? Would I think MORE highly of him if he went? Probably. But if he doesn't: no big deal... BGWhoDat likes this.

04-14-2012, 01:41 AM	#3
FinSaint Site Donor 2015 Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Finland... formerly Southern Virginia Posts: 4,963	Originally Posted by W. Kovacs And let's not forget to take into account that The Saints aren't exactly without fault, here. They could have signed Drew to a long term extension before he went out and had arguably, the best year a QB ever had and jacked up his price. Or they could have signed him as soon as they heard stuff was coming down about the Bounty Scandal and Drew's leverage went through the roof. They did neither. And let us not forget that they tried to do exactly that after the 2010 season, but Brees' side turned their offer down, which according to many reports was a very lucrative offer.

04-16-2012, 04:06 PM	#4
Budsdrinker A Cajun Transforming TX Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: The Woodlands, Texas Posts: 2,787	Originally Posted by W. Kovacs I sort of agreed with you until this morning. On SportsCenter or NFL Network (I was in a hotel, not really sure which I was watching) they showed the tackle where Brees blew out his shoulder. As someone who has had his shoulder reconstructed and is desperately trying to avoid the same surgery on the other side, I nearly vomited it looked so bad. I know that playing under the tag had nothing to do with the injury. I also know that playing under the tag now does nothing to increase the odds that he'll have an injury like that again. But if that happened to me the last time I played under a tag, I'd say thanks, but no thanks. (If I was Drew, I mean. If someone offered me $14mm a year to play football right now, I'd be the tackling dummy for that much cash!) This is also his last chance to get a huge contract. If he signs the tag, he can't hold out any more because he'll be under contract to play. If he gets injured in the weight room at an offseason practice and can't play again, he's effed. Also, these activities are VERY limited. Weight lifting, conditioning, stuff like that. Coaches can't be on the fields with players, they're not even allowed to use footballs in most workouts! Real OTAs start next month. And let's not forget to take into account that The Saints aren't exactly without fault, here. They could have signed Drew to a long term extension before he went out and had arguably, the best year a QB ever had and jacked up his price. Or they could have signed him as soon as they heard stuff was coming down about the Bounty Scandal and Drew's leverage went through the roof. They did neither. Imagine your job and the following scenario: 1. You've been doing your job exceptionally well for the last 5 years. 2. There is no one available internally or externally who can do your job as well as you. 3. There is a HUGE project coming up where you're expertise is vital. 4. It's annual review time and there are other companies who would practically kill to have you on their staff. Are you not going to do everything in your power to negotiate the best raise you possibly can? Would I think MORE highly of him if he went? Probably. But if he doesn't: no big deal... The problem I have with this way of thinking and I believe Danno brought this up before is that what was the difference in playing in 2011 when that was the last year of your contract vs this year under a franchise tag? In both cases it's a 1 year deal and you can't play the game worried about being injured. And I'm sure even if Drew has a 5 year deal, that there is some type of injury clause that voids the life of the contract or a buyout clause. So his using the last time he played under the tag, he was injured and it didn't go well for him doesn't fly in my book.

04-16-2012, 05:17 PM	#5
W. Kovacs 500th Post Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Milwaukee, WI Posts: 514	Originally Posted by Budsdrinker The problem I have with this way of thinking and I believe Danno brought this up before is that what was the difference in playing in 2011 when that was the last year of your contract vs this year under a franchise tag? In both cases it's a 1 year deal and you can't play the game worried about being injured. And I'm sure even if Drew has a 5 year deal, that there is some type of injury clause that voids the life of the contract or a buyout clause. So his using the last time he played under the tag, he was injured and it didn't go well for him doesn't fly in my book. If anything, to me, this shows that he doesn't deserve the vitriol he seems to have directed at him. He did right by our team by taking a huge risk playing without a contract last year. Oh, and had, arguably, the best regular season a QB has ever had and, what should have been, two playoff games for us (the second, he won twice before the D blew it just as many times). Now, he seems to have met the upper limit of his risk tolerance and he has to do what he thinks is right for him and has yet to do anything that hurts the team in doing so. I've said it before and I will again: if he holds out from Camp, I may start to change my mind. We need him and his leadership on the field this year more than ever...

04-16-2012, 05:22 PM	#6
FinSaint Site Donor 2015 Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Finland... formerly Southern Virginia Posts: 4,963	Originally Posted by W. Kovacs If anything, to me, this shows that he doesn't deserve the vitriol he seems to have directed at him. He did right by our team by taking a huge risk playing without a contract last year. Oh, and had, arguably, the best regular season a QB has ever had and, what should have been, two playoff games for us (the second, he won twice before the D blew it just as many times). He was under contract and he wasn't doing the team any favors by completing his contract. C'mon!

04-13-2012, 07:27 PM	#1
spkb25 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Baltimore, MD Posts: 13,123	Im gonna lose a lot of respect for him if he doesn't show up. plain and simple. I'll support him when he gets back, but I think I'll look at him a little differently from here on out

04-16-2012, 04:16 PM	#7
ScottF 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Atlanta Posts: 6,324	Originally Posted by W. Kovacs I sort of agreed with you until this morning. On SportsCenter or NFL Network (I was in a hotel, not really sure which I was watching) they showed the tackle where Brees blew out his shoulder. As someone who has had his shoulder reconstructed and is desperately trying to avoid the same surgery on the other side, I nearly vomited it looked so bad. I know that playing under the tag had nothing to do with the injury. I also know that playing under the tag now does nothing to increase the odds that he'll have an injury like that again. But if that happened to me the last time I played under a tag, I'd say thanks, but no thanks. (If I was Drew, I mean. If someone offered me $14mm a year to play football right now, I'd be the tackling dummy for that much cash!) This is also his last chance to get a huge contract. If he signs the tag, he can't hold out any more because he'll be under contract to play. If he gets injured in the weight room at an offseason practice and can't play again, he's effed. Also, these activities are VERY limited. Weight lifting, conditioning, stuff like that. Coaches can't be on the fields with players, they're not even allowed to use footballs in most workouts! Real OTAs start next month. And let's not forget to take into account that The Saints aren't exactly without fault, here. They could have signed Drew to a long term extension before he went out and had arguably, the best year a QB ever had and jacked up his price. Or they could have signed him as soon as they heard stuff was coming down about the Bounty Scandal and Drew's leverage went through the roof. They did neither. Imagine your job and the following scenario: 1. You've been doing your job exceptionally well for the last 5 years. 2. There is no one available internally or externally who can do your job as well as you. 3. There is a HUGE project coming up where you're expertise is vital. 4. It's annual review time and there are other companies who would practically kill to have you on their staff. Are you not going to do everything in your power to negotiate the best raise you possibly can? Would I think MORE highly of him if he went? Probably. But if he doesn't: no big deal... I guess it depends. Is the project a lot of fun, something I love doing, for a company I am loyal to, and oh, have I already earned 100 million dollars this decade???

04-16-2012, 05:05 PM	#8
W. Kovacs 500th Post Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Milwaukee, WI Posts: 514	Originally Posted by ScottF I guess it depends. Is the project a lot of fun, something I love doing, for a company I am loyal to, and oh, have I already earned 100 million dollars this decade??? If you want to go there, we can also ask whether your job puts your health and body at risk. My shoulders hurt every day after my injures, I can't imagine what a pro-athlete feels like after they retire. As for it being fun, I think it was Michael Jordan who had a great comment on the fact that sports isn't fun for these guys. The pressure they put on themselves to win, the amount of work they have to put in, the stress they're under...it's not fun. Is it more fun than emptying cesspools or being a soldier? Probably. But it's not fun like you or me going to the park on Saturday for a game of touch football. Finally, what are the benefits to the company for completing the project? Could you, potentially, make your company 5, 10, 25 times your salary back? Why is it okay for the team to make money but not the player? Also, Ed Werder reported on ESPN today that Brees' camp never requested $23 million dollars. We have no clue what's happening behind the scenes here, I don't think it makes sense to pass judgement on anything until Training Camp opens. If Brees doesn't show there, I'll have issues. Until then, he gets the benefit of the doubt from me...

04-16-2012, 05:14 PM	#9
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,751	Originally Posted by W. Kovacs Could you, potentially, make your company 5, 10, 25 times your salary back? Why is it okay for the team to make money but not the player? I take issue with this. The market determines a man's salary, not how much he can make his owner. If someone can do the job cheaper and the company still make money, then they should go with the lower costs. How much money a boss makes is irrelevant to how much the employee makes. Markets will correct that. FinSaint likes this.