Draft Grades - Walter Football, not too bad

Danno · 04-29-2012, 10:35 AM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

I disagree. We added Spagnuolo to the secondary, or more precisely, his scheme. I feel he will make our existing pieces more successful right away.

Indirectly by improving the front 7.

Its a cliche for a reason. A strong pass rush is your best secondary.

Our pass rush last year was laughable. I wouldn't base any DB analysis on what happened last year. We have some good talent back there and I think Spags will install a system that proves it.

UK_WhoDat · 04-29-2012, 02:48 PM

Originally Posted by lynwood

See me in two years for the actual grades.....

Originally Posted by saintfan

I know, right? I know some fans get all worked up over the draft and get themselves all in a tizzy over taking this guy or that guy or the other guy. It's cool. Whatever butters your bread......

The Danno cliche club grows, this time:

Maybe they forgot that the draft often works on a time delay.

Originally Posted by Danno

My favorite line in his article.

Don't expect our 2012 draft picks to blossom this year. They'll see some spot duty and special teams work, but not much else........

Yeah!

Rugby Saint II · 04-29-2012, 06:52 PM

I don't know.....a B- is about right for what I saw and read over the weekend.

Euphoria · 04-29-2012, 07:06 PM

Draft grades this early is no more or no less as gay as Power Rankings.

|Mitch| · 04-29-2012, 07:14 PM

well of course grades this early mean absolutely nothing, but still interesting to see.

I went back and looked at the grades for the 2010 draft; the Jimmy Graham pick grade was a C- and the Al Woods pick was an A. Just a little off the mark

FinSaint · 04-29-2012, 07:59 PM

Estimating the value of a certain player is very difficult because the fit of a certain player to a certain scheme can completely change the value of a player picked by team A versus him being picked by team B.

I think that is the what we might be seeing with someone like White, although he wasn't seen as a valuable player for most, he clearly was valued by the Saints and Spags/Flajole, so I'm OK with the pick.

I'm also leaning towards a B- grade based on the draft coverage I watched and some of the things I've read, but who knows? But I'm definitely not disappointed with the draft considering the handicaps the Saints had.

jeanpierre · 04-29-2012, 08:56 PM

Originally Posted by hagan714

...from what i see today i do not see a great improvement in the team in the secondary. Porter will be missed and the saints did nothing to fill the void. nothing. Safety is unchanged. Nothing really to get excited about, they are all the same type of players.

Front 7 on defense is better through FA and the draft gave us a project and hope.

Offense goes unchanged, But they have added another good set of hands for Drew. That is always good. OL has depth added.

well let camp start and see what we got.

see me in two years.

Well Said, K-man

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

I disagree. We added Spagnuolo to the secondary, or more precisely, his scheme. I feel he will make our existing pieces more successful right away.

Good Point - I'm skeptical, but I hope you're right...

Originally Posted by FinSaint

Estimating the value of a certain player is very difficult because the fit of a certain player to a certain scheme can completely change the value of a player picked by team A versus him being picked by team B...but I'm definitely not disappointed with the draft considering the handicaps the Saints had.

Hope we find a scheme where Harper doesn't have to cover, even if he is a Defensive Back; but maybe Spagnuolo can improve BOTH Safeties skills and tendencies...

FinSaint · 04-30-2012, 05:16 AM

Originally Posted by jeanpierre

Hope we find a scheme where Harper doesn't have to cover, even if he is a Defensive Back; but maybe Spagnuolo can improve BOTH Safeties skills and tendencies...

I think we all hope that, but I remain somewhat biased in my opinion about Harper's coverage skills or more precisely the lack of such skills.

I'm not saying he has great hands and great coverage skills among all the strong safeties around the league, but I also don't think the is as bad as is sometimes portrayed.

He was asked to do a lot in GW's schemes, probably more than he should've, but I still think that he can do a good job in coverage as long as he is not left "on an island" to defend against the top WR or TE - there are very few strong safeties who can succeed under those conditions. And lets not forget that Shanle also had a chance to brake up that pass to Vernon Davis which ended the Saints' season, so it's not like Harper was the only one on that play who "whiffed."

Danno · 04-30-2012, 08:05 AM

Originally Posted by FinSaint

I think we all hope that, but I remain somewhat biased in my opinion about Harper's coverage skills or more precisely the lack of such skills.

I'm not saying he has great hands and great coverage skills among all the strong safeties around the league, but I also don't think the is as bad as is sometimes portrayed.

He was asked to do a lot in GW's schemes, probably more than he should've, but I still think that he can do a good job in coverage as long as he is not left "on an island" to defend against the top WR or TE - there are very few strong safeties who can succeed under those conditions. And lets not forget that Shanle also had a chance to brake up that pass to Vernon Davis which ended the Saints' season, so it's not like Harper was the only one on that play who "whiffed."

After watching that game I'm much more concerned about Jenkins. He was burned all game long. Granted he's being asked to cover a TE who runs a 4.3, but we've beat that horse to death.

Euphoria · 04-30-2012, 08:35 AM

Originally Posted by FinSaint

Estimating the value of a certain player is very difficult because the fit of a certain player to a certain scheme can completely change the value of a player picked by team A versus him being picked by team B.

Where did you get that tid bit? There are no rules for grading players/teams ect. Because its no more or no less some guy with the internet sitting there thinking he knows more than anyone else, ranking players or even teams in a gay power ranking that means NOTHING.

Jimmy Graham got a C minus? How did that turn out? That just goes to show you they mean nothing. We don't get a trophy for getting an A by Joe Schmuck.

04-29-2012, 10:35 AM	#11
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,713	Originally Posted by AsylumGuido I disagree. We added Spagnuolo to the secondary, or more precisely, his scheme. I feel he will make our existing pieces more successful right away. Indirectly by improving the front 7. Its a cliche for a reason. A strong pass rush is your best secondary. Our pass rush last year was laughable. I wouldn't base any DB analysis on what happened last year. We have some good talent back there and I think Spags will install a system that proves it.

04-29-2012, 02:48 PM	#12
UK_WhoDat 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Wherever I lay my hat Posts: 3,865	Originally Posted by lynwood See me in two years for the actual grades..... Originally Posted by saintfan I know, right? I know some fans get all worked up over the draft and get themselves all in a tizzy over taking this guy or that guy or the other guy. It's cool. Whatever butters your bread...... The Danno cliche club grows, this time: Maybe they forgot that the draft often works on a time delay. Originally Posted by Danno My favorite line in his article. Don't expect our 2012 draft picks to blossom this year. They'll see some spot duty and special teams work, but not much else........ Yeah!

04-29-2012, 06:52 PM	#13
Rugby Saint II Bounty Money $$$ Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 5800 Airline Dr. Metairie, LA. Posts: 24,043	I don't know.....a B- is about right for what I saw and read over the weekend. FinSaint likes this.

04-29-2012, 07:59 PM	#16
FinSaint Site Donor 2015 Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Finland... formerly Southern Virginia Posts: 4,961	Estimating the value of a certain player is very difficult because the fit of a certain player to a certain scheme can completely change the value of a player picked by team A versus him being picked by team B. I think that is the what we might be seeing with someone like White, although he wasn't seen as a valuable player for most, he clearly was valued by the Saints and Spags/Flajole, so I'm OK with the pick. I'm also leaning towards a B- grade based on the draft coverage I watched and some of the things I've read, but who knows? But I'm definitely not disappointed with the draft considering the handicaps the Saints had.
	"I'm not bashing people, I'm bashing their opinions because in my opinion their opinion is wrong" - Danno

04-29-2012, 08:56 PM	#17
jeanpierre Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 43,543 Blog Entries: 39	Originally Posted by hagan714 ...from what i see today i do not see a great improvement in the team in the secondary. Porter will be missed and the saints did nothing to fill the void. nothing. Safety is unchanged. Nothing really to get excited about, they are all the same type of players. Front 7 on defense is better through FA and the draft gave us a project and hope. Offense goes unchanged, But they have added another good set of hands for Drew. That is always good. OL has depth added. well let camp start and see what we got. see me in two years. Well Said, K-man Originally Posted by AsylumGuido I disagree. We added Spagnuolo to the secondary, or more precisely, his scheme. I feel he will make our existing pieces more successful right away. Good Point - I'm skeptical, but I hope you're right... Originally Posted by FinSaint Estimating the value of a certain player is very difficult because the fit of a certain player to a certain scheme can completely change the value of a player picked by team A versus him being picked by team B...but I'm definitely not disappointed with the draft considering the handicaps the Saints had. Hope we find a scheme where Harper doesn't have to cover, even if he is a Defensive Back; but maybe Spagnuolo can improve BOTH Safeties skills and tendencies...

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04-29-2012, 07:06 PM	#14
Euphoria 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 7,601 Blog Entries: 5	Draft grades this early is no more or no less as gay as Power Rankings.

04-29-2012, 07:14 PM	#15
\|Mitch\| 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Alexandria, La Posts: 11,303	well of course grades this early mean absolutely nothing, but still interesting to see. I went back and looked at the grades for the 2010 draft; the Jimmy Graham pick grade was a C- and the Al Woods pick was an A. Just a little off the mark

04-30-2012, 05:16 AM	#18
FinSaint Site Donor 2015 Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Finland... formerly Southern Virginia Posts: 4,961	Originally Posted by jeanpierre Hope we find a scheme where Harper doesn't have to cover, even if he is a Defensive Back; but maybe Spagnuolo can improve BOTH Safeties skills and tendencies... I think we all hope that, but I remain somewhat biased in my opinion about Harper's coverage skills or more precisely the lack of such skills. I'm not saying he has great hands and great coverage skills among all the strong safeties around the league, but I also don't think the is as bad as is sometimes portrayed. He was asked to do a lot in GW's schemes, probably more than he should've, but I still think that he can do a good job in coverage as long as he is not left "on an island" to defend against the top WR or TE - there are very few strong safeties who can succeed under those conditions. And lets not forget that Shanle also had a chance to brake up that pass to Vernon Davis which ended the Saints' season, so it's not like Harper was the only one on that play who "whiffed."
	"I'm not bashing people, I'm bashing their opinions because in my opinion their opinion is wrong" - Danno

04-30-2012, 08:05 AM	#19
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,713	Originally Posted by FinSaint I think we all hope that, but I remain somewhat biased in my opinion about Harper's coverage skills or more precisely the lack of such skills. I'm not saying he has great hands and great coverage skills among all the strong safeties around the league, but I also don't think the is as bad as is sometimes portrayed. He was asked to do a lot in GW's schemes, probably more than he should've, but I still think that he can do a good job in coverage as long as he is not left "on an island" to defend against the top WR or TE - there are very few strong safeties who can succeed under those conditions. And lets not forget that Shanle also had a chance to brake up that pass to Vernon Davis which ended the Saints' season, so it's not like Harper was the only one on that play who "whiffed." After watching that game I'm much more concerned about Jenkins. He was burned all game long. Granted he's being asked to cover a TE who runs a 4.3, but we've beat that horse to death.

04-30-2012, 08:35 AM	#20
Euphoria 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 7,601 Blog Entries: 5	Originally Posted by FinSaint Estimating the value of a certain player is very difficult because the fit of a certain player to a certain scheme can completely change the value of a player picked by team A versus him being picked by team B. Where did you get that tid bit? There are no rules for grading players/teams ect. Because its no more or no less some guy with the internet sitting there thinking he knows more than anyone else, ranking players or even teams in a gay power ranking that means NOTHING. Jimmy Graham got a C minus? How did that turn out? That just goes to show you they mean nothing. We don't get a trophy for getting an A by Joe Schmuck.

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