The Union Weighs in On Player Punishments

neugey · 05-03-2012, 09:00 AM

As long as Goodell withholds whatever evidence he does or doesn't have, the players have a solid case. Go get 'em NFLPA.

saintfan · 05-03-2012, 10:05 AM

Any chance the leagues anti-trust exemption or whatever is as risk here? Having all the authority in a single chair doesn't seem smart. Hell, Roger has more power over his domain than the President of the United States. That's bad karma.

pherein · 05-03-2012, 10:17 AM

Well the supreme court was not happy about the leagues anti-trust exemption. They stated that. But, the agreement is not iron clad either.
Like Ive said, if the players can show malice, breach of contract, or improper conduct by Goddell, they are allowed to go to court, according to the agreement. I read it last night.

TheOak · 05-03-2012, 10:22 AM

The Players and NFLPA can not take this past RG1 with out breaking the terms of the CBA.

pherein · 05-03-2012, 10:26 AM

Originally Posted by x626xBlack

The Players and NFLPA can not take this past RG1 with out breaking the terms of the CBA.

Thats not correct, sorry x626xBlack, not trying to be a dink.
There are better explanations that explain it isn't as hard as the NFL might think, but I just have this link saved from last night.

Could Saints appeal bans to Supreme Court? - News from USA TODAY

However the players, who were given three days to appeal, may have significant hurdles to overcome. The collective bargaining agreement signed after last summer’s lockout essentially makes Goodell judge and jury for matters pertaining to the integrity of the game. Since this case technically falls under the umbrella of off-field conduct, the players can’t appeal to anyone but the commissioner per the CBA’s bylaws and may have difficulty getting the case in front of an outside judge.

“The players gave him extremely broad authority,” says Gabe Feldman, director of Tulane’s Sports Law program. “They’d have to show he exhibited bias or had no basis for the punishments, and that he acted in an arbitrary and capricious manner.

“There’s always the possibility the commissioner exceeded his powers, but that’s a difficult claim for the players to make. … They are going to have to overcome the fact that they bargained for a limited appeal right and that somewhere the commissioner violated the terms of the contract.”

Until, that trial is done, godell can't suspend anyone. and the supreme court are not NFL supporters..

Supreme Court denies NFL's request for broad antitrust protection
http://www.nfl.com/news/story?confir...-with-comments

darstep · 05-03-2012, 10:38 AM

Let's say the CBA becomes the central issue.
If, constitutionally it violates a players rights to seek remedy in the courts,
If the CBA is tossed, frozen, stayed, struck down or otherwise,
would we go back to not having an agreement in place? and play suspended? again?

pherein · 05-03-2012, 10:49 AM

Originally Posted by darstep

Let's say the CBA becomes the central issue.
If, constitutionally it violates a players rights to seek remedy in the courts,
If the CBA is tossed, frozen, stayed, struck down or otherwise,
would we go back to not having an agreement in place? and play suspended? again?

Short answer, yes. But thats a supreme court issue.

if the players can not show malice, breach of contract, or improper conduct by Goddell and get a court case, which seems unlikely, Im sure they will challenge the CBA in the supreme court based on constitutional law. The supreme court will likely void the agreement like they did last time.
So, football might actually stop, until a new CBA is drafted and approved.

Then the players can bring the NFL to court on any charge that works. After that would be a civil case. But, as long as the suspensions are in court, they cant be carried out. Thats my understanding.

TheOak · 05-03-2012, 11:07 AM

Originally Posted by pherein

Short answer, yes. But thats a supreme court issue.

if the players can not show malice, breach of contract, or improper conduct by Goddell and get a court case, which seems unlikely, Im sure they will challenge the CBA in the supreme court based on constitutional law. The supreme court will likely void the agreement like they did last time.
So, football might actually stop, until a new CBA is drafted and approved.

Then the players can bring the NFL to court on any charge that works. After that would be a civil case. But, as long as the suspensions are in court, they cant be carried out. Thats my understanding.

Don't apologize for anything brother.. Your not being a dink.

The catch is "proving" the following:

He operated out side of his authority (he has nearly absolute authority). Broad and nearly all encompassing. Especially in areas concerning the integrity of the game which this is.
As for the rest of bias, basis, etc... All Goodell has to do it put Greg Williams on the stand because that is where he got his evidence and all of that is moot.

What ever body of morons thought it would be "ok" to give one person absolute power, should be taken out back, cut, gut, shot, and lit on fire.

The NFLPA and the owners made this monster.

In regards to the Supreme Court: That was an antitrust issue, I do not see them willing to hear a case that violates no laws, or rights. Especially when everyone being punished is part of a collective group that gave Goodell his powers.

I love my Saints, I love NFL football, I also love my country and with everything that is going on in this country; I would be quite upset if the Supreme Court has time to hear matters like this.

Had someone died, someones constitutional rights been violated, if someone that was suspended was "INNOCENT", i might have a different opinion.

Screw the appeal higher than Goodell, lets get the suspensions started and get it all behind us.

pherein · 05-03-2012, 11:41 AM

Originally Posted by x626xBlack

Don't apologize for anything brother.. Your not being a dink.

The catch is "proving" the following:

He operated out side of his authority (he has nearly absolute authority). Broad and nearly all encompassing. Especially in areas concerning the integrity of the game which this is.

As for the rest of bias, basis, etc... All Goodell has to do it put Greg Williams on the stand because that is where he got his evidence and all of that is moot.

What ever body of morons thought it would be "ok" to give one person absolute power, should be taken out back, cut, gut, shot, and lit on fire.

The NFLPA and the owners made this monster.

In regards to the Supreme Court: That was an antitrust issue, I do not see them willing to hear a case that violates no laws, or rights. Especially when everyone being punished is part of a collective group that gave Goodell his powers.

I love my Saints, I love NFL football, I also love my country and with everything that is going on in this country; I would be quite upset if the Supreme Court has time to hear matters like this.

Had someone died, someones constitutional rights been violated, if someone that was suspended was "INNOCENT", i might have a different opinion.

Screw the appeal higher than Goodell, lets get the suspensions started and get it all behind us.

Cool..

Well, that guy was very limited in the possibilities they have for a court to hear the case. Its actually if the players can show malice, breach of contract, or improper conduct by Goddell. So, just a little more than he explained, but to your points. I won't even cover breach of contract, thats a possibility also.

He operated out side of his authority (he has nearly absolute authority). Broad and nearly all encompassing. Especially in areas concerning the integrity of the game which this is.
[*]As for the rest of bias, basis, etc... All Goodell has to do it put Greg Williams on the stand because that is where he got his evidence and all of that is moot.

Well, the players can show he is violating the integrity of the game by.
1. Suspending players arbitrarily on assumption, and no evidence.
2. Imposting player safety issues based on lawsuits, and not based on player health. The NFL has know about this sense this problem for some time know.
3. Using the senates proposal to reduce fines,, against Godell, because the NFL knew this was happening as far back as 2005 in GB.
4. Maliciously lying about said evidence proving the player involved.
Lots of things.
5. The disproportional discipline given to the Saints as oppose to others, show bias.

Not sure if anyone can prove he overstepped his bounds, but easy to prove he's a ego maniac. All they need to do is get a judge to say , yes you have a case.

IF GW is on the stand there is no suspensions until the trial is done

That could be years.
Plus, GW is not a good witness for the defense. The players can show he's testifying to keep his job, and prove he has lied before. GW could be discredited on the stand easily.
And might not do it, knowing what else will come out about his conduct on other teams.
GW is screwed anyway you look at it. His smartest move is to shop for a university to coach.

Well, they would take it to the supreme court only to erase the antitrust agreement, as unconstitutional. That is so they can bring Godell to court with not antitrust agreement in place. But, that is only if they are blocked by it and no judge will hear the case.
I don't think I would be upset. Thats their job. And to tell you the truth, as you said, you right. The antitrust agreement is against american principles and rights as an individual to seek council and defend yourself. Thats why they struck it down before.
IF the NFL can have this agreement, then who's next ?
Your work place ? IBM,Microsoft, ATT. The agreement is nuts, and Im a little disappointed that Brees was not more vocal it.
Its a constitutional right to trial, face your accuser and evidence against you.

Well, personally Im not sure the NFL owners will let it go to court

Thats the point in doing it. Its better for them to cut their losses, fire godell to save face, reinstate the Saints players, so they can keep the antitrust agreement in place, and continue the revenue.

At this point our Saints could be Boo'd by Philly fans for things they never did, and the NFL is ok with that. Im not.

Oh , don't worry we will have football, but I nice clubbing of the godell seal by Vilma on the side makes a nice side dish to watching the saints play, at least for me.

saintfan · 05-03-2012, 11:13 AM

I'd rather see the season suspended than to see Roger get away with what he has, so far, managed to get away with. As "Big Worm" stated so eloquently, "There's principalities involved!"

Seriously. This is an attempt at getting a leg up on player lawsuits and the NFLPA. It is being manipulated at every turn and it should not be allowed. I'd seriously rather see the league dismantled and rebuilt in a year or three than to see this continue under Roger Goodell.

I have to respectfully disagree 626. That ONE MAN has the authority to take away another man's ability to make money without giving that man the opportunity to speak for himself OR show him the evidence against him is precisely unAmerican and SHOULD land on the steps of the Supreme Court.

You don't know if any of the suspended are innocent or not, because you haven't seen the evidence. Neither have I. Neither have they. That just isn't right.

05-03-2012, 10:26 AM	#5
pherein failclownHunter Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: N.O. and V.A. Posts: 2,260 Blog Entries: 3	Originally Posted by x626xBlack The Players and NFLPA can not take this past RG1 with out breaking the terms of the CBA. Thats not correct, sorry x626xBlack, not trying to be a dink. There are better explanations that explain it isn't as hard as the NFL might think, but I just have this link saved from last night. Could Saints appeal bans to Supreme Court? - News from USA TODAY However the players, who were given three days to appeal, may have significant hurdles to overcome. The collective bargaining agreement signed after last summer’s lockout essentially makes Goodell judge and jury for matters pertaining to the integrity of the game. Since this case technically falls under the umbrella of off-field conduct, the players can’t appeal to anyone but the commissioner per the CBA’s bylaws and may have difficulty getting the case in front of an outside judge. “The players gave him extremely broad authority,” says Gabe Feldman, director of Tulane’s Sports Law program. “They’d have to show he exhibited bias or had no basis for the punishments, and that he acted in an arbitrary and capricious manner. “There’s always the possibility the commissioner exceeded his powers, but that’s a difficult claim for the players to make. … They are going to have to overcome the fact that they bargained for a limited appeal right and that somewhere the commissioner violated the terms of the contract.” Until, that trial is done, godell can't suspend anyone. and the supreme court are not NFL supporters.. Supreme Court denies NFL's request for broad antitrust protection http://www.nfl.com/news/story?confir...-with-comments
	Last edited by pherein; 05-03-2012 at 10:33 AM..

05-03-2012, 10:49 AM	#7
pherein failclownHunter Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: N.O. and V.A. Posts: 2,260 Blog Entries: 3	Originally Posted by darstep Let's say the CBA becomes the central issue. If, constitutionally it violates a players rights to seek remedy in the courts, If the CBA is tossed, frozen, stayed, struck down or otherwise, would we go back to not having an agreement in place? and play suspended? again? Short answer, yes. But thats a supreme court issue. if the players can not show malice, breach of contract, or improper conduct by Goddell and get a court case, which seems unlikely, Im sure they will challenge the CBA in the supreme court based on constitutional law. The supreme court will likely void the agreement like they did last time. So, football might actually stop, until a new CBA is drafted and approved. Then the players can bring the NFL to court on any charge that works. After that would be a civil case. But, as long as the suspensions are in court, they cant be carried out. Thats my understanding.
	Saints proved that pigs could fly in 2009. Now its time for another miracle SuperBowl and go where no pig has gone before. Last edited by pherein; 05-03-2012 at 10:53 AM..

05-03-2012, 11:07 AM	#8
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,051	Originally Posted by pherein Short answer, yes. But thats a supreme court issue. if the players can not show malice, breach of contract, or improper conduct by Goddell and get a court case, which seems unlikely, Im sure they will challenge the CBA in the supreme court based on constitutional law. The supreme court will likely void the agreement like they did last time. So, football might actually stop, until a new CBA is drafted and approved. Then the players can bring the NFL to court on any charge that works. After that would be a civil case. But, as long as the suspensions are in court, they cant be carried out. Thats my understanding. Don't apologize for anything brother.. Your not being a dink. The catch is "proving" the following: He operated out side of his authority (he has nearly absolute authority). Broad and nearly all encompassing. Especially in areas concerning the integrity of the game which this is. As for the rest of bias, basis, etc... All Goodell has to do it put Greg Williams on the stand because that is where he got his evidence and all of that is moot. What ever body of morons thought it would be "ok" to give one person absolute power, should be taken out back, cut, gut, shot, and lit on fire. The NFLPA and the owners made this monster. In regards to the Supreme Court: That was an antitrust issue, I do not see them willing to hear a case that violates no laws, or rights. Especially when everyone being punished is part of a collective group that gave Goodell his powers. I love my Saints, I love NFL football, I also love my country and with everything that is going on in this country; I would be quite upset if the Supreme Court has time to hear matters like this. Had someone died, someones constitutional rights been violated, if someone that was suspended was "INNOCENT", i might have a different opinion. Screw the appeal higher than Goodell, lets get the suspensions started and get it all behind us.
	It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see. ~ Henry David Thoreau

05-03-2012, 11:41 AM	#9
pherein failclownHunter Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: N.O. and V.A. Posts: 2,260 Blog Entries: 3	Originally Posted by x626xBlack Don't apologize for anything brother.. Your not being a dink. The catch is "proving" the following: He operated out side of his authority (he has nearly absolute authority). Broad and nearly all encompassing. Especially in areas concerning the integrity of the game which this is. As for the rest of bias, basis, etc... All Goodell has to do it put Greg Williams on the stand because that is where he got his evidence and all of that is moot. What ever body of morons thought it would be "ok" to give one person absolute power, should be taken out back, cut, gut, shot, and lit on fire. The NFLPA and the owners made this monster. In regards to the Supreme Court: That was an antitrust issue, I do not see them willing to hear a case that violates no laws, or rights. Especially when everyone being punished is part of a collective group that gave Goodell his powers. I love my Saints, I love NFL football, I also love my country and with everything that is going on in this country; I would be quite upset if the Supreme Court has time to hear matters like this. Had someone died, someones constitutional rights been violated, if someone that was suspended was "INNOCENT", i might have a different opinion. Screw the appeal higher than Goodell, lets get the suspensions started and get it all behind us. Cool.. Well, that guy was very limited in the possibilities they have for a court to hear the case. Its actually if the players can show malice, breach of contract, or improper conduct by Goddell. So, just a little more than he explained, but to your points. I won't even cover breach of contract, thats a possibility also. He operated out side of his authority (he has nearly absolute authority). Broad and nearly all encompassing. Especially in areas concerning the integrity of the game which this is. [*]As for the rest of bias, basis, etc... All Goodell has to do it put Greg Williams on the stand because that is where he got his evidence and all of that is moot. Well, the players can show he is violating the integrity of the game by. 1. Suspending players arbitrarily on assumption, and no evidence. 2. Imposting player safety issues based on lawsuits, and not based on player health. The NFL has know about this sense this problem for some time know. 3. Using the senates proposal to reduce fines,, against Godell, because the NFL knew this was happening as far back as 2005 in GB. 4. Maliciously lying about said evidence proving the player involved. Lots of things. 5. The disproportional discipline given to the Saints as oppose to others, show bias. Not sure if anyone can prove he overstepped his bounds, but easy to prove he's a ego maniac. All they need to do is get a judge to say , yes you have a case. IF GW is on the stand there is no suspensions until the trial is done That could be years. Plus, GW is not a good witness for the defense. The players can show he's testifying to keep his job, and prove he has lied before. GW could be discredited on the stand easily. And might not do it, knowing what else will come out about his conduct on other teams. GW is screwed anyway you look at it. His smartest move is to shop for a university to coach. Well, they would take it to the supreme court only to erase the antitrust agreement, as unconstitutional. That is so they can bring Godell to court with not antitrust agreement in place. But, that is only if they are blocked by it and no judge will hear the case. I don't think I would be upset. Thats their job. And to tell you the truth, as you said, you right. The antitrust agreement is against american principles and rights as an individual to seek council and defend yourself. Thats why they struck it down before. IF the NFL can have this agreement, then who's next ? Your work place ? IBM,Microsoft, ATT. The agreement is nuts, and Im a little disappointed that Brees was not more vocal it. Its a constitutional right to trial, face your accuser and evidence against you. Well, personally Im not sure the NFL owners will let it go to court Thats the point in doing it. Its better for them to cut their losses, fire godell to save face, reinstate the Saints players, so they can keep the antitrust agreement in place, and continue the revenue. At this point our Saints could be Boo'd by Philly fans for things they never did, and the NFL is ok with that. Im not. Oh , don't worry we will have football, but I nice clubbing of the godell seal by Vilma on the side makes a nice side dish to watching the saints play, at least for me.
	Saints proved that pigs could fly in 2009. Now its time for another miracle SuperBowl and go where no pig has gone before. Last edited by pherein; 05-03-2012 at 12:33 PM..

05-03-2012, 11:13 AM	#10
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	I'd rather see the season suspended than to see Roger get away with what he has, so far, managed to get away with. As "Big Worm" stated so eloquently, "There's principalities involved!" Seriously. This is an attempt at getting a leg up on player lawsuits and the NFLPA. It is being manipulated at every turn and it should not be allowed. I'd seriously rather see the league dismantled and rebuilt in a year or three than to see this continue under Roger Goodell. I have to respectfully disagree 626. That ONE MAN has the authority to take away another man's ability to make money without giving that man the opportunity to speak for himself OR show him the evidence against him is precisely unAmerican and SHOULD land on the steps of the Supreme Court. You don't know if any of the suspended are innocent or not, because you haven't seen the evidence. Neither have I. Neither have they. That just isn't right.
	C'mon Man...

05-03-2012, 09:00 AM	#1
neugey Hu Dat! Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 6,877 Blog Entries: 13	As long as Goodell withholds whatever evidence he does or doesn't have, the players have a solid case. Go get 'em NFLPA.

05-03-2012, 10:05 AM	#2
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	Any chance the leagues anti-trust exemption or whatever is as risk here? Having all the authority in a single chair doesn't seem smart. Hell, Roger has more power over his domain than the President of the United States. That's bad karma.

05-03-2012, 10:17 AM	#3
pherein failclownHunter Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: N.O. and V.A. Posts: 2,260 Blog Entries: 3	Well the supreme court was not happy about the leagues anti-trust exemption. They stated that. But, the agreement is not iron clad either. Like Ive said, if the players can show malice, breach of contract, or improper conduct by Goddell, they are allowed to go to court, according to the agreement. I read it last night.

05-03-2012, 10:22 AM	#4
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,051	The Players and NFLPA can not take this past RG1 with out breaking the terms of the CBA.

05-03-2012, 10:38 AM	#6
darstep SaintSince67 Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: PortCity Posts: 2,044	Let's say the CBA becomes the central issue. If, constitutionally it violates a players rights to seek remedy in the courts, If the CBA is tossed, frozen, stayed, struck down or otherwise, would we go back to not having an agreement in place? and play suspended? again?

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