The Union Weighs in On Player Punishments

SaintGup · 05-03-2012, 08:38 AM

Let's be honest, the appeals will mean jack because the players, stupidly, said that Goodell could have the final say in these decisions. I'm just as cheesed off with Goodell as everyone else but there is nothing that will change his mind and the unfairness of it all infuriates me but as there has been little evidence of actual wrongdoing and we still got heavily penalised something tells me it will not matter what is found or isn't found, the NFL will find a way to still make it stick. However, as I don't know your legal system I may be spouting a lot of hooey and someone can be brought in to deal with it but from what it seems, it has already been decided. 50,000 pages of evidence? Probably some stuff scrawled on the back of a cigarette packet...22 of 27 players getting hit? Not really. Just 4 and two of those are elsewhere now. Player safety? No, just covering my butt for the impending lawsuits the NFL will be hit with. Appeal? Did you not hear me the first time? Why are you asking me to review something which I have decided? Go away. Independent arbiters? Sorry, you gave me complete power and I am wielding it with much pleasure. Am I wrong? Probably but who's going to do anything about it? You?

neugey · 05-03-2012, 10:00 AM

As long as Goodell withholds whatever evidence he does or doesn't have, the players have a solid case. Go get 'em NFLPA.

pherein · 05-03-2012, 10:57 AM

Originally Posted by SaintGup

However, as I don't know your legal system I may be spouting a lot of hooey and someone can be brought in to deal with it but from what it seems, it has already been decided. 50,000 pages of evidence? Probably some stuff scrawled on the back of a cigarette packet...22 of 27 players getting hit? Not really. Just 4 and two of those are elsewhere now. Player safety? No, just covering my butt for the impending lawsuits the NFL will be hit with. Appeal? Did you not here me the first time? Why are you asking me to review something which I have decided? Go away. Independent arbiters? Sorry, you gave me complete power and I am wielding it with much pleasure. Am I wrong? Probably but who's going to do anything about it? You?

In our legal system godell can not impose suspension, until the civil case, which is for a monetary sum, and the legal case, under the Fair work place Act of 1960's, has completed and their is a verdict.
The appeal to the NFL is useless, and they will only do this to stall for time and build a legal case.
Don't even take notice of the appeals to Godell, thats just a shell game the players know they can not win.

In america if a person is loses a legal trial. Like the one against OJ Simson. The family can still sue OJ after in civil court for money. So, you get 2 shots really.

The Players will sue Godell and the NFL for lost wages, after they bring Godell to court for violation of contract laws. The contract laws and fair work place trial could take years. The NFL is not allowed to suspend anyone until its done, and that could and probably will go to the the supreme court.

and I say that because the Supreme Court tried to stop the agreement the NFL had with the players before, because it is unprecedented in the work place. So, they are already not happy with the agreement, and consider it a constitutional issue.

saintfan · 05-03-2012, 11:05 AM

Any chance the leagues anti-trust exemption or whatever is as risk here? Having all the authority in a single chair doesn't seem smart. Hell, Roger has more power over his domain than the President of the United States. That's bad karma.

pherein · 05-03-2012, 11:17 AM

Well the supreme court was not happy about the leagues anti-trust exemption. They stated that. But, the agreement is not iron clad either.
Like Ive said, if the players can show malice, breach of contract, or improper conduct by Goddell, they are allowed to go to court, according to the agreement. I read it last night.

TheOak · 05-03-2012, 11:22 AM

The Players and NFLPA can not take this past RG1 with out breaking the terms of the CBA.

pherein · 05-03-2012, 11:26 AM

Originally Posted by x626xBlack

The Players and NFLPA can not take this past RG1 with out breaking the terms of the CBA.

Thats not correct, sorry x626xBlack, not trying to be a dink.
There are better explanations that explain it isn't as hard as the NFL might think, but I just have this link saved from last night.

Could Saints appeal bans to Supreme Court? - News from USA TODAY

However the players, who were given three days to appeal, may have significant hurdles to overcome. The collective bargaining agreement signed after last summer’s lockout essentially makes Goodell judge and jury for matters pertaining to the integrity of the game. Since this case technically falls under the umbrella of off-field conduct, the players can’t appeal to anyone but the commissioner per the CBA’s bylaws and may have difficulty getting the case in front of an outside judge.

“The players gave him extremely broad authority,” says Gabe Feldman, director of Tulane’s Sports Law program. “They’d have to show he exhibited bias or had no basis for the punishments, and that he acted in an arbitrary and capricious manner.

“There’s always the possibility the commissioner exceeded his powers, but that’s a difficult claim for the players to make. … They are going to have to overcome the fact that they bargained for a limited appeal right and that somewhere the commissioner violated the terms of the contract.”

Until, that trial is done, godell can't suspend anyone. and the supreme court are not NFL supporters..

Supreme Court denies NFL's request for broad antitrust protection
http://www.nfl.com/news/story?confir...-with-comments

darstep · 05-03-2012, 11:38 AM

Let's say the CBA becomes the central issue.
If, constitutionally it violates a players rights to seek remedy in the courts,
If the CBA is tossed, frozen, stayed, struck down or otherwise,
would we go back to not having an agreement in place? and play suspended? again?

pherein · 05-03-2012, 11:49 AM

Originally Posted by darstep

Let's say the CBA becomes the central issue.
If, constitutionally it violates a players rights to seek remedy in the courts,
If the CBA is tossed, frozen, stayed, struck down or otherwise,
would we go back to not having an agreement in place? and play suspended? again?

Short answer, yes. But thats a supreme court issue.

if the players can not show malice, breach of contract, or improper conduct by Goddell and get a court case, which seems unlikely, Im sure they will challenge the CBA in the supreme court based on constitutional law. The supreme court will likely void the agreement like they did last time.
So, football might actually stop, until a new CBA is drafted and approved.

Then the players can bring the NFL to court on any charge that works. After that would be a civil case. But, as long as the suspensions are in court, they cant be carried out. Thats my understanding.

TheOak · 05-03-2012, 12:07 PM

Originally Posted by pherein

Short answer, yes. But thats a supreme court issue.

if the players can not show malice, breach of contract, or improper conduct by Goddell and get a court case, which seems unlikely, Im sure they will challenge the CBA in the supreme court based on constitutional law. The supreme court will likely void the agreement like they did last time.
So, football might actually stop, until a new CBA is drafted and approved.

Then the players can bring the NFL to court on any charge that works. After that would be a civil case. But, as long as the suspensions are in court, they cant be carried out. Thats my understanding.

Don't apologize for anything brother.. Your not being a dink.

The catch is "proving" the following:

He operated out side of his authority (he has nearly absolute authority). Broad and nearly all encompassing. Especially in areas concerning the integrity of the game which this is.
As for the rest of bias, basis, etc... All Goodell has to do it put Greg Williams on the stand because that is where he got his evidence and all of that is moot.

What ever body of morons thought it would be "ok" to give one person absolute power, should be taken out back, cut, gut, shot, and lit on fire.

The NFLPA and the owners made this monster.

In regards to the Supreme Court: That was an antitrust issue, I do not see them willing to hear a case that violates no laws, or rights. Especially when everyone being punished is part of a collective group that gave Goodell his powers.

I love my Saints, I love NFL football, I also love my country and with everything that is going on in this country; I would be quite upset if the Supreme Court has time to hear matters like this.

Had someone died, someones constitutional rights been violated, if someone that was suspended was "INNOCENT", i might have a different opinion.

Screw the appeal higher than Goodell, lets get the suspensions started and get it all behind us.

05-03-2012, 10:57 AM	#23
pherein failclownHunter Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: N.O. and V.A. Posts: 2,260 Blog Entries: 3	Originally Posted by SaintGup However, as I don't know your legal system I may be spouting a lot of hooey and someone can be brought in to deal with it but from what it seems, it has already been decided. 50,000 pages of evidence? Probably some stuff scrawled on the back of a cigarette packet...22 of 27 players getting hit? Not really. Just 4 and two of those are elsewhere now. Player safety? No, just covering my butt for the impending lawsuits the NFL will be hit with. Appeal? Did you not here me the first time? Why are you asking me to review something which I have decided? Go away. Independent arbiters? Sorry, you gave me complete power and I am wielding it with much pleasure. Am I wrong? Probably but who's going to do anything about it? You? In our legal system godell can not impose suspension, until the civil case, which is for a monetary sum, and the legal case, under the Fair work place Act of 1960's, has completed and their is a verdict. The appeal to the NFL is useless, and they will only do this to stall for time and build a legal case. Don't even take notice of the appeals to Godell, thats just a shell game the players know they can not win. In america if a person is loses a legal trial. Like the one against OJ Simson. The family can still sue OJ after in civil court for money. So, you get 2 shots really. The Players will sue Godell and the NFL for lost wages, after they bring Godell to court for violation of contract laws. The contract laws and fair work place trial could take years. The NFL is not allowed to suspend anyone until its done, and that could and probably will go to the the supreme court. and I say that because the Supreme Court tried to stop the agreement the NFL had with the players before, because it is unprecedented in the work place. So, they are already not happy with the agreement, and consider it a constitutional issue.
	Saints proved that pigs could fly in 2009. Now its time for another miracle SuperBowl and go where no pig has gone before. Last edited by pherein; 05-03-2012 at 11:06 AM..

05-03-2012, 11:26 AM	#27
pherein failclownHunter Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: N.O. and V.A. Posts: 2,260 Blog Entries: 3	Originally Posted by x626xBlack The Players and NFLPA can not take this past RG1 with out breaking the terms of the CBA. Thats not correct, sorry x626xBlack, not trying to be a dink. There are better explanations that explain it isn't as hard as the NFL might think, but I just have this link saved from last night. Could Saints appeal bans to Supreme Court? - News from USA TODAY However the players, who were given three days to appeal, may have significant hurdles to overcome. The collective bargaining agreement signed after last summer’s lockout essentially makes Goodell judge and jury for matters pertaining to the integrity of the game. Since this case technically falls under the umbrella of off-field conduct, the players can’t appeal to anyone but the commissioner per the CBA’s bylaws and may have difficulty getting the case in front of an outside judge. “The players gave him extremely broad authority,” says Gabe Feldman, director of Tulane’s Sports Law program. “They’d have to show he exhibited bias or had no basis for the punishments, and that he acted in an arbitrary and capricious manner. “There’s always the possibility the commissioner exceeded his powers, but that’s a difficult claim for the players to make. … They are going to have to overcome the fact that they bargained for a limited appeal right and that somewhere the commissioner violated the terms of the contract.” Until, that trial is done, godell can't suspend anyone. and the supreme court are not NFL supporters.. Supreme Court denies NFL's request for broad antitrust protection http://www.nfl.com/news/story?confir...-with-comments
	Last edited by pherein; 05-03-2012 at 11:33 AM..

05-03-2012, 11:49 AM	#29
pherein failclownHunter Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: N.O. and V.A. Posts: 2,260 Blog Entries: 3	Originally Posted by darstep Let's say the CBA becomes the central issue. If, constitutionally it violates a players rights to seek remedy in the courts, If the CBA is tossed, frozen, stayed, struck down or otherwise, would we go back to not having an agreement in place? and play suspended? again? Short answer, yes. But thats a supreme court issue. if the players can not show malice, breach of contract, or improper conduct by Goddell and get a court case, which seems unlikely, Im sure they will challenge the CBA in the supreme court based on constitutional law. The supreme court will likely void the agreement like they did last time. So, football might actually stop, until a new CBA is drafted and approved. Then the players can bring the NFL to court on any charge that works. After that would be a civil case. But, as long as the suspensions are in court, they cant be carried out. Thats my understanding.
	Saints proved that pigs could fly in 2009. Now its time for another miracle SuperBowl and go where no pig has gone before. Last edited by pherein; 05-03-2012 at 11:53 AM..

05-03-2012, 12:07 PM	#30
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,026	Originally Posted by pherein Short answer, yes. But thats a supreme court issue. if the players can not show malice, breach of contract, or improper conduct by Goddell and get a court case, which seems unlikely, Im sure they will challenge the CBA in the supreme court based on constitutional law. The supreme court will likely void the agreement like they did last time. So, football might actually stop, until a new CBA is drafted and approved. Then the players can bring the NFL to court on any charge that works. After that would be a civil case. But, as long as the suspensions are in court, they cant be carried out. Thats my understanding. Don't apologize for anything brother.. Your not being a dink. The catch is "proving" the following: He operated out side of his authority (he has nearly absolute authority). Broad and nearly all encompassing. Especially in areas concerning the integrity of the game which this is. As for the rest of bias, basis, etc... All Goodell has to do it put Greg Williams on the stand because that is where he got his evidence and all of that is moot. What ever body of morons thought it would be "ok" to give one person absolute power, should be taken out back, cut, gut, shot, and lit on fire. The NFLPA and the owners made this monster. In regards to the Supreme Court: That was an antitrust issue, I do not see them willing to hear a case that violates no laws, or rights. Especially when everyone being punished is part of a collective group that gave Goodell his powers. I love my Saints, I love NFL football, I also love my country and with everything that is going on in this country; I would be quite upset if the Supreme Court has time to hear matters like this. Had someone died, someones constitutional rights been violated, if someone that was suspended was "INNOCENT", i might have a different opinion. Screw the appeal higher than Goodell, lets get the suspensions started and get it all behind us.
	It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see. ~ Henry David Thoreau

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05-03-2012, 08:38 AM	#21
SaintGup 500th Post Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: London, England Posts: 580	Let's be honest, the appeals will mean jack because the players, stupidly, said that Goodell could have the final say in these decisions. I'm just as cheesed off with Goodell as everyone else but there is nothing that will change his mind and the unfairness of it all infuriates me but as there has been little evidence of actual wrongdoing and we still got heavily penalised something tells me it will not matter what is found or isn't found, the NFL will find a way to still make it stick. However, as I don't know your legal system I may be spouting a lot of hooey and someone can be brought in to deal with it but from what it seems, it has already been decided. 50,000 pages of evidence? Probably some stuff scrawled on the back of a cigarette packet...22 of 27 players getting hit? Not really. Just 4 and two of those are elsewhere now. Player safety? No, just covering my butt for the impending lawsuits the NFL will be hit with. Appeal? Did you not hear me the first time? Why are you asking me to review something which I have decided? Go away. Independent arbiters? Sorry, you gave me complete power and I am wielding it with much pleasure. Am I wrong? Probably but who's going to do anything about it? You?

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05-03-2012, 10:00 AM	#22
neugey Hu Dat! Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 6,697 Blog Entries: 13	As long as Goodell withholds whatever evidence he does or doesn't have, the players have a solid case. Go get 'em NFLPA.

05-03-2012, 11:05 AM	#24
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	Any chance the leagues anti-trust exemption or whatever is as risk here? Having all the authority in a single chair doesn't seem smart. Hell, Roger has more power over his domain than the President of the United States. That's bad karma.

05-03-2012, 11:17 AM	#25
pherein failclownHunter Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: N.O. and V.A. Posts: 2,260 Blog Entries: 3	Well the supreme court was not happy about the leagues anti-trust exemption. They stated that. But, the agreement is not iron clad either. Like Ive said, if the players can show malice, breach of contract, or improper conduct by Goddell, they are allowed to go to court, according to the agreement. I read it last night.

05-03-2012, 11:22 AM	#26
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,026	The Players and NFLPA can not take this past RG1 with out breaking the terms of the CBA.

05-03-2012, 11:38 AM	#28
darstep SaintSince67 Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: PortCity Posts: 2,044	Let's say the CBA becomes the central issue. If, constitutionally it violates a players rights to seek remedy in the courts, If the CBA is tossed, frozen, stayed, struck down or otherwise, would we go back to not having an agreement in place? and play suspended? again?