League responds to Vilma suit, reiterates commitment to safety and integrity

05-18-2012, 02:34 PM

Originally Posted by phocis850

Here's a question, why would Goodell and the NFL show evidence before any potential lawsuits? Why would they give those suspended a leg up in a legal battle? Wouldn't it make sense to have a court take down the players statements and THEN provide the proof?

Why didn't Goodell just hand down punishment without making a media circus and mentioning Vilma several times specifically?

Apparently Hargrove, Fujita and others were just as culpable, why not mention their name over and over again to hurt the remained of their careers?

Doesn't the punishment itself fit the crime? Or does Vilma worthy of extra opprobrium to the extent that it destroys what's left of his career.

SmashMouth · 05-18-2012, 02:35 PM

Originally Posted by saintfan

Maybe. Maybe not.

He is 'smart enough' if he can hide behind the CBA and do and say whatever he feels and then destroy evidence on a whim...

BUT, I'd be willing to bet Roger never thought this would go this far. I have to doubt that he considered he'd actually get sued as an individual.

Where I think he miscalculated is the over-the-top punishment to players. Management, assuming there was even a pay-for-performance program, IS ultimately responsible. Roger went way over the top with Sean and Loomie in my opinion...

But with the players, is there any evidence that anyone was directly involved? The league points to Hargrove's statement as the end all be all and it is anything but.

Roger's mistake was to effectively end Jon's career. Heck, guilty or not, had Roger simply imposed a reasonable fine, Vilma might have simply capitulated rather than deal with all the drama. Instead Roger ended his career thus forcing Vilma and the NFLPA into action.

REAL action that I doubt Roger saw coming, smart as I think he is. I think he made a critical error in judgement with the heavy-handed suspensions and fines. I think he's crapping his pants right about now, and I'm happy about it.

Can we all pitch in to send him some of these?

And if he wears them, He can sell sponsorships to offset the millions he is going to have to pay Vilma! Something like this?

mutineer10 · 05-18-2012, 02:40 PM

Maybe GoodHell is more the tampon type ...

Halo · 05-18-2012, 02:48 PM

Originally Posted by saintfan

pay-for-performance program...

Here's the problem that the NFL has made a mockery of two separate terminologies, and may have made judgements based off false testimony from a disgruntled ex-employee(s)

Pay-for-performance means a payment system that links compensation measured by work quality or goals - like playing an entire season, or catching x number of passes. These are part of player contracts. They are NOT the same as Bounty Schemes.

Outside of a player's contract it can also mean other players and coaches pay fellow players for pass catches, kicking the winning field goal, TD passes, etc.

Bounty Schemes are similar to pay for performance outside a contract, but they encourage wilful compensation to players who cause damage or hurt to other players on the field.

There probably has to definitely be some intent with a Bounty Scheme from both the players and coaches.

The NFL has bleed the lines with these definitions. They have availed themselves to legal action by using these terms loosely, and attempting to issue justice in the court of public opinion without presenting facts and evidence - giving players like Vilma due process in the public's eye.

This is going to be a HUGE problem with the NFL's defense and their complaints against these players.

mutineer10 · 05-18-2012, 02:55 PM

Originally Posted by Halo

This is going to be a HUGE problem with the NFL's defense and their complaints against these players.

Let's hope so. Incentives have long been a part of the game - not to mention a part of contracts. While "pay for play" may be a no-no, it's one thing to give some CB a bonus for 5+ interceptions, and totally another to offer a bonus for inflicting injury.

Either way, looks like the NFL is gonna have to present proof of these allegations now ... and that's really all most of us wanted, right?

Beastmode · 05-18-2012, 03:07 PM

Goodell is not the NFL. Even if he wanted to use the evidence it's technically not his evidence to use to defend himself right?

SmashMouth · 05-18-2012, 03:17 PM

Originally Posted by Beastmode

Goodell is not the NFL. Even if he wanted to use the evidence it's technically not his evidence to use to defend himself right?

Therein lies one of his challenges ... it would ostensibly result in a default judgement in favor of Vilma if he did not use the evidence to defend himself. How hot can it get for Herr Fuhrer Goodell?

sharke · 05-18-2012, 03:26 PM

my love for Jonathan Vilma grows by the minute

TheOak · 05-18-2012, 03:32 PM

Classic "I do not know what the fk to say" reply from the league.

Dear NFL... the law suit has nothing to do with the punishment... Its the public defamation of character with no justification from Goodell in front of microphones and cameras you are getting sued for...

TheOak · 05-18-2012, 03:34 PM

Originally Posted by Beastmode

Goodell is not the NFL. Even if he wanted to use the evidence it's technically not his evidence to use to defend himself right?

Just along the lines I was thinking yesterday... Vilma is not suing the NFL he is suing Goodell personally.

NFL lawyers... Keep Quiet.

05-18-2012, 02:34 PM	#31
Threaded by Halo Site Donor MONTHLY Join Date: May 2002 Location: New Orleans, LA Posts: 20,565 Blog Entries: 45 Rating: (0 votes - average) Originally Posted by phocis850 Here's a question, why would Goodell and the NFL show evidence before any potential lawsuits? Why would they give those suspended a leg up in a legal battle? Wouldn't it make sense to have a court take down the players statements and THEN provide the proof? Why didn't Goodell just hand down punishment without making a media circus and mentioning Vilma several times specifically? Apparently Hargrove, Fujita and others were just as culpable, why not mention their name over and over again to hurt the remained of their careers? Doesn't the punishment itself fit the crime? Or does Vilma worthy of extra opprobrium to the extent that it destroys what's left of his career.
Views: 15721

05-18-2012, 02:35 PM	#32
SmashMouth I donated, did you? Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Mandeville, LA Posts: 38,044 Blog Entries: 29	Originally Posted by saintfan Maybe. Maybe not. He is 'smart enough' if he can hide behind the CBA and do and say whatever he feels and then destroy evidence on a whim... BUT, I'd be willing to bet Roger never thought this would go this far. I have to doubt that he considered he'd actually get sued as an individual. Where I think he miscalculated is the over-the-top punishment to players. Management, assuming there was even a pay-for-performance program, IS ultimately responsible. Roger went way over the top with Sean and Loomie in my opinion... But with the players, is there any evidence that anyone was directly involved? The league points to Hargrove's statement as the end all be all and it is anything but. Roger's mistake was to effectively end Jon's career. Heck, guilty or not, had Roger simply imposed a reasonable fine, Vilma might have simply capitulated rather than deal with all the drama. Instead Roger ended his career thus forcing Vilma and the NFLPA into action. REAL action that I doubt Roger saw coming, smart as I think he is. I think he made a critical error in judgement with the heavy-handed suspensions and fines. I think he's crapping his pants right about now, and I'm happy about it. Can we all pitch in to send him some of these? And if he wears them, He can sell sponsorships to offset the millions he is going to have to pay Vilma! Something like this? saintfan and foreverfan like this.

05-18-2012, 02:40 PM	#33
mutineer10 Site Donor Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Baton Rouge, LA Posts: 1,739	Maybe GoodHell is more the tampon type ... saintfan and foreverfan like this.

05-18-2012, 02:48 PM	#34
Halo Site Donor MONTHLY Join Date: May 2002 Location: New Orleans, LA Posts: 20,565 Blog Entries: 45	Originally Posted by saintfan pay-for-performance program... Here's the problem that the NFL has made a mockery of two separate terminologies, and may have made judgements based off false testimony from a disgruntled ex-employee(s) Pay-for-performance means a payment system that links compensation measured by work quality or goals - like playing an entire season, or catching x number of passes. These are part of player contracts. They are NOT the same as Bounty Schemes. Outside of a player's contract it can also mean other players and coaches pay fellow players for pass catches, kicking the winning field goal, TD passes, etc. Bounty Schemes are similar to pay for performance outside a contract, but they encourage wilful compensation to players who cause damage or hurt to other players on the field. There probably has to definitely be some intent with a Bounty Scheme from both the players and coaches. The NFL has bleed the lines with these definitions. They have availed themselves to legal action by using these terms loosely, and attempting to issue justice in the court of public opinion without presenting facts and evidence - giving players like Vilma due process in the public's eye. This is going to be a HUGE problem with the NFL's defense and their complaints against these players.
	Like blackandgold.com on facebook follow us on Twitter Last edited by Halo; 05-18-2012 at 02:50 PM..

05-18-2012, 02:55 PM	#35
mutineer10 Site Donor Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Baton Rouge, LA Posts: 1,739	Originally Posted by Halo This is going to be a HUGE problem with the NFL's defense and their complaints against these players. Let's hope so. Incentives have long been a part of the game - not to mention a part of contracts. While "pay for play" may be a no-no, it's one thing to give some CB a bonus for 5+ interceptions, and totally another to offer a bonus for inflicting injury. Either way, looks like the NFL is gonna have to present proof of these allegations now ... and that's really all most of us wanted, right?

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05-18-2012, 03:07 PM	#36
Beastmode 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 9,126	Goodell is not the NFL. Even if he wanted to use the evidence it's technically not his evidence to use to defend himself right?
Beastmode 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 9,126

05-18-2012, 03:17 PM	#37
SmashMouth I donated, did you? Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Mandeville, LA Posts: 38,044 Blog Entries: 29	Originally Posted by Beastmode Goodell is not the NFL. Even if he wanted to use the evidence it's technically not his evidence to use to defend himself right? Therein lies one of his challenges ... it would ostensibly result in a default judgement in favor of Vilma if he did not use the evidence to defend himself. How hot can it get for Herr Fuhrer Goodell? foreverfan likes this.

05-18-2012, 03:26 PM	#38
sharke evil decepticon Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: St. Augustine, FL Posts: 583	my love for Jonathan Vilma grows by the minute

05-18-2012, 03:32 PM	#39
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,019	Classic "I do not know what the fk to say" reply from the league. Dear NFL... the law suit has nothing to do with the punishment... Its the public defamation of character with no justification from Goodell in front of microphones and cameras you are getting sued for... sharke likes this.

05-18-2012, 03:34 PM	#40
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,019	Originally Posted by Beastmode Goodell is not the NFL. Even if he wanted to use the evidence it's technically not his evidence to use to defend himself right? Just along the lines I was thinking yesterday... Vilma is not suing the NFL he is suing Goodell personally. NFL lawyers... Keep Quiet.

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