I Love truly Vilma, But.......
 

Im gonna say this out front so this post doesn't get slammed for being anti - Who Dat!!!! An odd and evil thought crept into my mind today when I read that the Saints were 2.9 million under the cap, and that if Jonathan Vilma's suspension holds up it's worth somewhere around 4.5 million dollars? Anybody thinking it would be better if Vilma sat out the season? Here's some points in my defense!!! Don't kill me...

- He's still nursing a knee injury from last season.
- Would you say he's lost a step?
- New D Coordinator means any LB could step in and be a leader at that position!!!
- LB position is loaded with the Additions of Chamberlain, Hawthorne, Lofton
- 4.5 million could immediately be added to the "Sign Drew" Pot

BTW, if Jonathan Vilma misses the entire 2012 season I think it's safe to say his career as a Saint is over.... I would hate for that to happen without him being able to play for it!!!!

Oddly enough a similar thought has entered my head recently, he has lost a step and I think we will be better with curtis lofton in the middle for the whole season, not alternating snaps

I love what Vilma has done for our team since he arrived, but it was obvious to see the last two years he has lost a step and his tackling ability was that poor last season that it made jo lonn Dunbar look like a pro bowler when he was put in

Thats the hard thing about it. Most of us Who Dats love Vilma & what he's done for the Saints and the city but at the same time he's declining, expensive and oft injured. the wear & tear is taking a toll and thats sad. I would have loved for a healthy Vilma, Lofton, & Hawthorne to play together. But the fact of the matter is, do we want to keep him for sentimental value , or hope that his suspensions uphold so we can use his cap number to get the Brees deal done.

Its hard for me because I want Brees long term but I also want Vilma to get justice for getting punished with no shred of evidence against him.

Lb corp loaded?!?!? I still think we are weak at lb. you'll agree with me when you see Scott $h!tle still starting in week 8. Lofton is good but Hawthorne and chamberlain are upgrades but still I see shanle. If these guys can't beat out the softest lb on the league then we will still be weak at lb an team will continue to dink and dunk 5 yard plays on us all year

My stance has been similar. I LOVE me some #51. But Lofton may be an upgrade. He was the #2 run stuffing LB in the league last year. Over 100 tackles, on the field 99% of the snaps. He's Vilma, but younger. I'd like to keep Vilma at a reduced price, but this will be Lofton's D now & I am excited!!

Yes, this LB corp has been upgraded for the first time truly, since Vilma joined us. Lofton, Chamberlain & Hawthorn each had over 100 tackles last year. In Spags' D last year, Chamberlain had 2.5 sacks against us, I believe. These guys are hand picked by Spags, so give him a chance for pete's sake. Shanale's not a beast by any means, but he has come up big from time to time. And while we as fans think we know so much, we dont coach in this league, if we coach at all (I dont lol). But I trust Spags and all of our professional coaches and staff to make the right choices.

Nothing wrong with keeping an open mind when looking at the team...

Probably true, but I'd still rather have Vilma PLAYING for us...

We don't know what we got till Week 2; Shanle slow, maybe, but soft? Ouch.

This is a great concluding point; let Spagnuolo do his thing and see if it translates into success; Shanle is not the villain some purport him to be and may have been the victim of scheme as much as anyone - wait and see where we are in Week 2...

:bng:

Way back when it was first hinted that Vilma might be one of those players who'd face a suspension due to their involvement in the claimed Bountygate, some were suggesting that the Saints should outright cut Vilma to free up more cap space. My point back then was that the best scenario for the Saints financially would be for Vilma to get suspended for an entire season while remaining under contract, because it would in effect free up more cap space than cutting him would've.

Even though that is how I still feel about it, I'd love to see Vilma in the starting 3 along with Lofton and Hawthorne (if Wilson is in fact moved to DE), and with Herring and Chamberlain - along with Shanle, Bussey, and Casillas - providing some situational rotation options for Spags. Still, the key determinant in this whole scenario for me is ultimately Vilma's health, if he is even 95% of his 2009 self - then the Saints would be much better with him in the line-up than without him.

In any case, I don't believe for a second that Vilma's contract/salary status will be a deciding factor in the re-signing of Brees.

Yeah, that's what had me puzzled. If Vilma's lawsuit fails & the suspension holds, does his contract count against the cap number? It's my understanding the suspension is without pay, so I can't see why it should.

The bonus portions do, the weekly salary doesn't.

I think it is very safe to say that if VIlma sits out this year he is DONE. Also, if Shanle is starting in September I am going to throw myself off a bridge!!! lol

I read up on this when the possibility of suspensions was initially mentioned and the current CBA states that like Danno said already, the base salary of a player suspended (due to a football related issue) doesn't count toward the overall salary cap, but the various bonuses of a suspended player do.

And in the case of someone like Smith, his base salary is divided into 16 (I don't know why not into 17 as there are 17 weeks in the regular season, doesn't he get payed for the bye week?) to get the base salary reduction for a single game - times 4 in the case of Smith. And this is where his re-negotiated contract really hurts the Saints financially, because his base salary now is something like 800K for the 2012 season, as most of his salary was converted into a signing bonus.

And in the case of someone like Vilma, because he'll be suspended because of a football related issue and not something he did in his civilian life (i.e. Michael Vick), the suspended year will count towards his overall contract, which it wouldn't in the other case. The franchise is ultimately responsible for football related issues, and that is why they are also "punished" by losing a contract year with the said player - while that may be a blessing in disguise in some situations.

While the suspension may be "without pay" it doesn't mean that his contract is out of the books. It simply means that the player loses his base salary (or some of it) as part of the punishment, but as bonuses are usually guaranteed (as is always with signing bonuses since those have already landed on the player's bank account), those will still count towards the salary cap even if the player is suspended "without pay."

This was in the back of my mind too.

I hope Vilma beats it. i want him on the field in 2012

Vilma was our safety net at LB the last couple of year. Did you notice the insane drop back he would do in coverage? how far he lined up off the line. he was almost 5 yards deeper than a normal 43 mlb would be. His zone of responsibility was way to large due to the weak supporting LB corp. That and the fact we were blitzing so much. He was playing more of a SS/MLB role. That alone tells you how much talent this guy still has.

Now put him in there in a more traditional role like when he first arrived in new orleans and you will see a change in the play.

I see Vilma finishing his time as part of a LB rotation that could line him up anywhere.

4.5 million is not breaking the bank for a player of skill base. 4.5 million was wasted in Williams defensive scheme.

can the LB corp be improved even more? heck yeah. but the steps made in 2012 is a nice start. We have 3 solid starting LB for the first time since Fujita left.

Team depth at LB is more promising than ever, If only we could have held onto Dunbar too.

I would love to see those highlights.

I have been reading this thread for several days and finally decided to chip in my two cents. Vilma will have his suspension reduced or even lifted. If he has it reduced his time away could be used to recuperate and come back healthy. If he's playing the full season we will be awesome at LB'er. If he is out all season we will do well with Lofton in the middle. It's a win/win.

He did have that one INT last season, which was thrown directly at his numbers.

Seems like the federal court will drop the Vilma lawsuit. Just like Goodell has unfortunately for Vilma.

Yeah, well, he's one of the few guys back there who actually managed to catch a ball thrown directly at his numbers. :o