I Love truly Vilma, But.......

alleycat_126 · 05-25-2012, 07:53 AM

Im gonna say this out front so this post doesn't get slammed for being anti - Who Dat!!!! An odd and evil thought crept into my mind today when I read that the Saints were 2.9 million under the cap, and that if Jonathan Vilma's suspension holds up it's worth somewhere around 4.5 million dollars? Anybody thinking it would be better if Vilma sat out the season? Here's some points in my defense!!! Don't kill me...

- He's still nursing a knee injury from last season.
- Would you say he's lost a step?
- New D Coordinator means any LB could step in and be a leader at that position!!!
- LB position is loaded with the Additions of Chamberlain, Hawthorne, Lofton
- 4.5 million could immediately be added to the "Sign Drew" Pot

BTW, if Jonathan Vilma misses the entire 2012 season I think it's safe to say his career as a Saint is over.... I would hate for that to happen without him being able to play for it!!!!

dizzle88 · 05-25-2012, 08:06 AM

Oddly enough a similar thought has entered my head recently, he has lost a step and I think we will be better with curtis lofton in the middle for the whole season, not alternating snaps

I love what Vilma has done for our team since he arrived, but it was obvious to see the last two years he has lost a step and his tackling ability was that poor last season that it made jo lonn Dunbar look like a pro bowler when he was put in

NuNu318 · 05-25-2012, 08:07 AM

Thats the hard thing about it. Most of us Who Dats love Vilma & what he's done for the Saints and the city but at the same time he's declining, expensive and oft injured. the wear & tear is taking a toll and thats sad. I would have loved for a healthy Vilma, Lofton, & Hawthorne to play together. But the fact of the matter is, do we want to keep him for sentimental value , or hope that his suspensions uphold so we can use his cap number to get the Brees deal done.

Its hard for me because I want Brees long term but I also want Vilma to get justice for getting punished with no shred of evidence against him.

Speedy Ron · 05-26-2012, 06:43 PM

Lb corp loaded?!?!? I still think we are weak at lb. you'll agree with me when you see Scott $h!tle still starting in week 8. Lofton is good but Hawthorne and chamberlain are upgrades but still I see shanle. If these guys can't beat out the softest lb on the league then we will still be weak at lb an team will continue to dink and dunk 5 yard plays on us all year

4thqtrsaint · 05-26-2012, 06:45 PM

My stance has been similar. I LOVE me some #51. But Lofton may be an upgrade. He was the #2 run stuffing LB in the league last year. Over 100 tackles, on the field 99% of the snaps. He's Vilma, but younger. I'd like to keep Vilma at a reduced price, but this will be Lofton's D now & I am excited!!

4thqtrsaint · 05-26-2012, 06:51 PM

Yes, this LB corp has been upgraded for the first time truly, since Vilma joined us. Lofton, Chamberlain & Hawthorn each had over 100 tackles last year. In Spags' D last year, Chamberlain had 2.5 sacks against us, I believe. These guys are hand picked by Spags, so give him a chance for pete's sake. Shanale's not a beast by any means, but he has come up big from time to time. And while we as fans think we know so much, we dont coach in this league, if we coach at all (I dont lol). But I trust Spags and all of our professional coaches and staff to make the right choices.

jeanpierre · 05-27-2012, 05:48 AM

Originally Posted by alleycat_126

...I read that the Saints were 2.9 million under the cap, and that if Jonathan Vilma's suspension holds up it's worth somewhere around 4.5 million dollars? Anybody thinking it would be better if Vilma sat out the season?

BTW, if Jonathan Vilma misses the entire 2012 season I think it's safe to say his career as a Saint is over...!

Nothing wrong with keeping an open mind when looking at the team...

Originally Posted by dizzle88

Oddly enough a similar thought has entered my head recently, he has lost a step and I think we will be better with curtis lofton in the middle for the whole season, not alternating snaps...

Probably true, but I'd still rather have Vilma PLAYING for us...

Originally Posted by Speedy Ron

Lb corp loaded?!?!? I still think we are weak at lb...if these guys can't beat out the softest lb on the league (Shanle?) then we will still be weak at lb an team will continue to dink and dunk 5 yard plays on us all year

We don't know what we got till Week 2; Shanle slow, maybe, but soft? Ouch.

Originally Posted by 4thqtrsaint

Yes, this LB corp has been upgraded for the first time truly, since Vilma joined us...These guys are hand picked by Spags, so give him a chance for pete's sake. Shanale's not a beast by any means, but he has come up big from time to time. And while we as fans think we know so much, we dont coach in this league, if we coach at all (I dont lol). But I trust Spags and all of our professional coaches and staff to make the right choices.

This is a great concluding point; let Spagnuolo do his thing and see if it translates into success; Shanle is not the villain some purport him to be and may have been the victim of scheme as much as anyone - wait and see where we are in Week 2...

FinSaint · 05-27-2012, 06:32 AM

Way back when it was first hinted that Vilma might be one of those players who'd face a suspension due to their involvement in the claimed Bountygate, some were suggesting that the Saints should outright cut Vilma to free up more cap space. My point back then was that the best scenario for the Saints financially would be for Vilma to get suspended for an entire season while remaining under contract, because it would in effect free up more cap space than cutting him would've.

Even though that is how I still feel about it, I'd love to see Vilma in the starting 3 along with Lofton and Hawthorne (if Wilson is in fact moved to DE), and with Herring and Chamberlain - along with Shanle, Bussey, and Casillas - providing some situational rotation options for Spags. Still, the key determinant in this whole scenario for me is ultimately Vilma's health, if he is even 95% of his 2009 self - then the Saints would be much better with him in the line-up than without him.

In any case, I don't believe for a second that Vilma's contract/salary status will be a deciding factor in the re-signing of Brees.

mutineer10 · 05-27-2012, 08:23 AM

Originally Posted by FinSaint

My point back then was that the best scenario for the Saints financially would be for Vilma to get suspended for an entire season while remaining under contract, because it would in effect free up more cap space than cutting him would've.

Yeah, that's what had me puzzled. If Vilma's lawsuit fails & the suspension holds, does his contract count against the cap number? It's my understanding the suspension is without pay, so I can't see why it should.

Danno · 05-27-2012, 09:20 AM

Originally Posted by mutineer10

Yeah, that's what had me puzzled. If Vilma's lawsuit fails & the suspension holds, does his contract count against the cap number? It's my understanding the suspension is without pay, so I can't see why it should.

The bonus portions do, the weekly salary doesn't.

05-25-2012, 07:53 AM	#1
alleycat_126 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Katy, Tx a suburb of Houston Posts: 2,089	I Love truly Vilma, But....... Im gonna say this out front so this post doesn't get slammed for being anti - Who Dat!!!! An odd and evil thought crept into my mind today when I read that the Saints were 2.9 million under the cap, and that if Jonathan Vilma's suspension holds up it's worth somewhere around 4.5 million dollars? Anybody thinking it would be better if Vilma sat out the season? Here's some points in my defense!!! Don't kill me... - He's still nursing a knee injury from last season. - Would you say he's lost a step? - New D Coordinator means any LB could step in and be a leader at that position!!! - LB position is loaded with the Additions of Chamberlain, Hawthorne, Lofton - 4.5 million could immediately be added to the "Sign Drew" Pot BTW, if Jonathan Vilma misses the entire 2012 season I think it's safe to say his career as a Saint is over.... I would hate for that to happen without him being able to play for it!!!! TheOak likes this.

05-26-2012, 06:43 PM	#4
Speedy Ron I'm an A hole Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Metry Posts: 1,173	Lb corp loaded?!?!? I still think we are weak at lb. you'll agree with me when you see Scott $h!tle still starting in week 8. Lofton is good but Hawthorne and chamberlain are upgrades but still I see shanle. If these guys can't beat out the softest lb on the league then we will still be weak at lb an team will continue to dink and dunk 5 yard plays on us all year saintfan likes this.

05-26-2012, 06:51 PM	#6
4thqtrsaint 100th Post Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 103	Yes, this LB corp has been upgraded for the first time truly, since Vilma joined us. Lofton, Chamberlain & Hawthorn each had over 100 tackles last year. In Spags' D last year, Chamberlain had 2.5 sacks against us, I believe. These guys are hand picked by Spags, so give him a chance for pete's sake. Shanale's not a beast by any means, but he has come up big from time to time. And while we as fans think we know so much, we dont coach in this league, if we coach at all (I dont lol). But I trust Spags and all of our professional coaches and staff to make the right choices.
4thqtrsaint 100th Post Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 103

05-27-2012, 05:48 AM	#7
jeanpierre Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 43,543 Blog Entries: 39	Originally Posted by alleycat_126 ...I read that the Saints were 2.9 million under the cap, and that if Jonathan Vilma's suspension holds up it's worth somewhere around 4.5 million dollars? Anybody thinking it would be better if Vilma sat out the season? BTW, if Jonathan Vilma misses the entire 2012 season I think it's safe to say his career as a Saint is over...! Nothing wrong with keeping an open mind when looking at the team... Originally Posted by dizzle88 Oddly enough a similar thought has entered my head recently, he has lost a step and I think we will be better with curtis lofton in the middle for the whole season, not alternating snaps... Probably true, but I'd still rather have Vilma PLAYING for us... Originally Posted by Speedy Ron Lb corp loaded?!?!? I still think we are weak at lb...if these guys can't beat out the softest lb on the league (Shanle?) then we will still be weak at lb an team will continue to dink and dunk 5 yard plays on us all year We don't know what we got till Week 2; Shanle slow, maybe, but soft? Ouch. Originally Posted by 4thqtrsaint Yes, this LB corp has been upgraded for the first time truly, since Vilma joined us...These guys are hand picked by Spags, so give him a chance for pete's sake. Shanale's not a beast by any means, but he has come up big from time to time. And while we as fans think we know so much, we dont coach in this league, if we coach at all (I dont lol). But I trust Spags and all of our professional coaches and staff to make the right choices. This is a great concluding point; let Spagnuolo do his thing and see if it translates into success; Shanle is not the villain some purport him to be and may have been the victim of scheme as much as anyone - wait and see where we are in Week 2... sharke likes this.

05-27-2012, 06:32 AM	#8
FinSaint Site Donor 2015 Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Finland... formerly Southern Virginia Posts: 4,961	Way back when it was first hinted that Vilma might be one of those players who'd face a suspension due to their involvement in the claimed Bountygate, some were suggesting that the Saints should outright cut Vilma to free up more cap space. My point back then was that the best scenario for the Saints financially would be for Vilma to get suspended for an entire season while remaining under contract, because it would in effect free up more cap space than cutting him would've. Even though that is how I still feel about it, I'd love to see Vilma in the starting 3 along with Lofton and Hawthorne (if Wilson is in fact moved to DE), and with Herring and Chamberlain - along with Shanle, Bussey, and Casillas - providing some situational rotation options for Spags. Still, the key determinant in this whole scenario for me is ultimately Vilma's health, if he is even 95% of his 2009 self - then the Saints would be much better with him in the line-up than without him. In any case, I don't believe for a second that Vilma's contract/salary status will be a deciding factor in the re-signing of Brees.
	"I'm not bashing people, I'm bashing their opinions because in my opinion their opinion is wrong" - Danno

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05-25-2012, 08:06 AM	#2
dizzle88 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 11,118	Oddly enough a similar thought has entered my head recently, he has lost a step and I think we will be better with curtis lofton in the middle for the whole season, not alternating snaps I love what Vilma has done for our team since he arrived, but it was obvious to see the last two years he has lost a step and his tackling ability was that poor last season that it made jo lonn Dunbar look like a pro bowler when he was put in

05-25-2012, 08:07 AM	#3
NuNu318 100th Post Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: VA Posts: 465	Thats the hard thing about it. Most of us Who Dats love Vilma & what he's done for the Saints and the city but at the same time he's declining, expensive and oft injured. the wear & tear is taking a toll and thats sad. I would have loved for a healthy Vilma, Lofton, & Hawthorne to play together. But the fact of the matter is, do we want to keep him for sentimental value , or hope that his suspensions uphold so we can use his cap number to get the Brees deal done. Its hard for me because I want Brees long term but I also want Vilma to get justice for getting punished with no shred of evidence against him.

05-26-2012, 06:45 PM	#5
4thqtrsaint 100th Post Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 103	My stance has been similar. I LOVE me some #51. But Lofton may be an upgrade. He was the #2 run stuffing LB in the league last year. Over 100 tackles, on the field 99% of the snaps. He's Vilma, but younger. I'd like to keep Vilma at a reduced price, but this will be Lofton's D now & I am excited!!
4thqtrsaint 100th Post Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 103

05-27-2012, 08:23 AM	#9
mutineer10 Site Donor Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Baton Rouge, LA Posts: 1,739	Originally Posted by FinSaint My point back then was that the best scenario for the Saints financially would be for Vilma to get suspended for an entire season while remaining under contract, because it would in effect free up more cap space than cutting him would've. Yeah, that's what had me puzzled. If Vilma's lawsuit fails & the suspension holds, does his contract count against the cap number? It's my understanding the suspension is without pay, so I can't see why it should.

05-27-2012, 09:20 AM	#10
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,713	Originally Posted by mutineer10 Yeah, that's what had me puzzled. If Vilma's lawsuit fails & the suspension holds, does his contract count against the cap number? It's my understanding the suspension is without pay, so I can't see why it should. The bonus portions do, the weekly salary doesn't. FinSaint likes this.

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